Enough Is Enough!!!

Some of the posts, and the attitudes on display, in this thread are just downright bizarre.

 

That's because we are all different people with different backgrounds and from different economies.

 

The moral of this tale is that the more you spend the more you get. The more you put in the more you get out. You don’t get anything for free. You have to pay your way. No such thing as a free upgrade or a free lunch. Capitalism is alive and well and a DTG is not a charity. I think that rather than DTG conning, taking advantage of, or treating with contempt their players, they may just be wanting an income for their business and are doing it in the right way for them. You want TSW, you buy TSW. All versions of TSW that you have bought up to now are yours to keep albeit with quickly diminishing support. The support wasn’t that great anyway as anyone waiting for AI trains to drive with their headlights on in the first loco pack for TSW3 will attest to, so nothing much changes, and that is a different story. This story is that DTG are a business and just want paying for their products and the customers not willing to pay will get left behind. Life, eh?

The double glazing adverts say “You buy one, you get one free” but in reality you are buying two and if you have an odd number of windows in your house then that last window will cost you double. “Trust me, it’s free fitting.” No, the fitting of the windows could be the most expensive part, you are more likely to be paying more for the fitting than the windows themselves, it’s all just included in the price, not free. The even numbered windows are not free, the fitting is not free, your adverts are lying. However, if you do want double glazing then you are definitely going to have to pay for it, no matter what the ads claim is free, and you don’t get it for nowt. Anyone surprised by that? Anyone feel cheated?

As far as I can tell, DTG have not offered anything for free and TSW is cheaper than double glazing. And as that other double glazing company claimed “You only fit double glazing once, so fit the best…” turns out not to be true as I contemplate replacing one of their windows right now. The one they fitted here many years ago has come to the end of its life a mere 30 years after it was fitted. I didn’t live here then and I didn’t pay for it, and I can’t actually be sure it was that particular firm that fitted it (not that it matters for their statement to turn out to be false) but I do remember their advert on the telly and now I’m fuming that they lied. Where’s my free upgrade Everest, where? Window Reality World 2 doesn’t even have any new features, except maybe not being seized shut and falling out of the wall.

TSW4 is available at all good stockists. Buy now, it’s a lot cheaper than a new bathroom window. Trust me.

 

Indeed. I am very much in the middle when it comes to dealing with DTG and their products, particularly TSW.
On the one hand it’s impossible not to feel exasperated with some of their decisions and policies (not going into specifics as already covered in this thread and numerous times elsewhere). On the other hand where else can we get a train game that offers the all round entertainment that TSW does, all day timetable, reasonably up to date graphics and very shortly a route editor?

We’re not a captive audience but I can only report my own experience over the last few weeks and months. Whenever I’ve fired up TSC, Run 8, Derail Valley, SimRail, even old MSTS in Open Rails, within a few evenings I’m back on TSW. Not the other way round.

 

That post perfectly illustrates my point. Downright bizarre.

 

Really? Some people have been calling others stupid for wanting TSW4. I was called mad.

Of course people should speak negatively or positively as they feel, as long as DTG allow as these are their forums (something some forget when comparing them to an authortarian regime) but there have been some unedifying discussions on here in the last few weeks. Some posters, if they were new would have been called trolls for some of their contributions.

No one on either side of the fence, if there is such a thing, which is a shame, have any business regarding peoples decision making on spending their own money on something they enjoy, or not as the case may be.

 

What's bizarre about that? I find the behaviour of being mad at a product and not just throwing the product away is bizarre. If it doesn't work as you want it just ditch the product and you learned a lesson about that product.

The interest for TSw4 seems for some people contradictory to the statements they make about TSW4. That's what is bizarre

 

Bizarre is that people hate or love a product they didn´t get their hands on yet (well, apart from some scripted streams which are famous for releasing tons of hot air)

 

That's not bizarre. That's how marketing and sales works. If that's bizarre to you the entire gaming community must feel like another dimension to you

 

It's the cake analogy again.
Why throw the whole cake away just because it's missing the cherry on top... I'd prefer to point out that the cake, while very good, could be better.

 

Mmmmm, cake…

 

Well, if you wanted a cake with a cherry and the one offered doesn't have one, you go somewhere else where they have cakes with cherries.

 

I eat the cake and imagine the cherry.

 

I think I never had a cake with a cherry on top. Is that really a thing, cakes with a cherry on top?

 

Theyre not that good come to think of it. I prefer my cakes drowning in chocolate icing.. and by goodness the cake maker will feel my wrath if its not. On that note jam tarts are quite nice too.. very nice to wash down proper Cornish pasties..

JetWash Now we're getting bizzare

 

The point was that throwing the cake away because it doesnt have the cherry is a bit of a binary approach to the issue. Its a shame I feel that I have to point that out..

 

Well, I interpret it this way that: it was advertised as a cake with cherry, but it was delivered without a cherry, but it was said the cherry will arrive some time later. But then the cherry didn't arrive, but instead the next cake with cherry is being advertised, and it is said only if you buy it you will get the cherry, which doesn't really need to come with the cake, but some time later, e.g. with another cake you will need to buy later. It's a shame I need to point that out.

 

And for years they did. TSW was £25 like TS, and routes and trains followed the same pricing structure as TS. Before TSW3 the only instance of the base version of TSW costing more than £25 was the original TSW release (not CSX Heavy Haul).

I don't like it, and I haven't bought it and won't be except for a significant discount. And considering the decreasing sales of new versions of TSW it seems a lot are making the same decision.

Already done.

 

I had strawberrys on top ... never cherrys ... huh, maybe the saying is wrong all the time!

 

Oh. I must have misunderstood this then.

I'm grateful for the explanation though. It was a good one too except for the last sentence. Sorry if you felt triggered by me saying that it was a shame that I felt I had to explain the analogy.

 

Nah, it was added just to mock you.

 

Oh. That's not very nice. Well, I hope you have a good day anyway.

 

I aim to please

 

Well, if a torte counts as a cake

 

Volia!

 

Ironically, a Belgian bun ! antwerpcentral

 

That's why I bought them but it was a choice of show the label or the cherries! Plus they are bloody nice!

 

I can respect the effort this Man went to show his point, and the beautiful thing is he had his cake and ate it..............twice, now that's what you call a winner in life.......

 

I did not want so say anything but to me this does not look like a cake. In Belgium we call this a "gebakje" but the same I see with beer in the UK. We call that brew lemonade in Belgium

 

And we call your Stella Artois 'Wife beater' so I guess we even!

 

Lol I can see the dilemma can’t have been easy for you, for what it’s worth, I’d have done the same

 

Isn't that Special Brew?

 

Yes cake is a very good analogy. Back in 1765, a very young Marie Antoinette happened upon a group of people playing TSW3. Not being fond of trains due to an unfortunate experience with some English buffet food, she seized the game and tossed it out the window, uttering the famous words, " let them eat cake.".

The damage done to TSW3 was unfortunately never repaired.

But from that day onwards, eating cake while playing TSW has become a hallowed tradition..

 

That's a hobo's breakfast dinner and tea all in one can.......

 

Sh!t! Busted!

 

I didn't say that, I never said don't complain!

What I was getting at is there are a ton of posts from different users all saying the same thing why isn't the pricing the same as with TSC in this thread.

I am just giving a possible reason as to why it is not the same. I never said people don't have the right to air greivences, and in fact I agree DTG does have very shady business practices.

Go back in my posts from 2 years ago and you will see I have been warning people not to trust anything DTG say in writing or verbally on streams for years now. You get what you get and don't expect to much in terms of post release.

But being a console user who used to play sports games, and have dealt with paying for an upgrade every year I am used to the way console games work.

PC users seem to forget one of the main reasons TSW was developed in the 1st place was to provide a 1st class (that's debateable) simulator to console.

So in theory it is a console game.

The point about PC users can just go back was due to frustration over seeing the same comments, over 30 now on how much better TSC is because of the pricing.

Us console users don't have a choice, so think about that. And stop rubbing it in our faces that you have options. We don't.

( and no not you personally, just in general)

And also heed warning that I have a strange feeling next years TSC is going to be another paid update and it will go to the same way TSW is. But we will see.

But yes complain when you see shady things errors and bugs, thats what these forums are for.

 

TSC on console? Sounds tempting. Maybe with a subscription model (still no evil smiley?)

 

Nah I use that stuff to creosote my fence, way cheaper than the actual stuff!!

 

A bit cynical perhaps, but judging by this and many other threads here, a lesson for DTG could be not to be so open anymore. Clearly they have made promises about or at the very least hinted at incoming fixes that either never came or will now come only if you buy the next instalment. And I agree that’s a bit shady. And many people here will remember that for eternity.

They could learn a bit from From Software, just keep your pork trap shut and release patches at your own leisure.

 

Average type of people in a community ffs

 

The only problem with that is people will start complaining DTG are being too quiet and not engaging with the community.

A big lose-lose situation either way.

 

One thing I really hate about the era of social media is how it introduced this whole culture of a 24/7 hype cycle and a focus on PR, managing image and reach over just focusing on the product and getting it out there when it's good and done with a marketing blitz when it's ready for it. All this obsession with "roadmaps" and the like ever breeds is disappointment.

 

Couldn’t agree more. Social Media is the single worst thing that’s happened in my lifetime, it absolutely brings out the worst in humanity.

 

On the other hand if you go back to the days of Frontier First Encounters… we relied on PC magazines that were paid to give the big titles 90% reviews. It was an awful game compared to Frontier Elite II. David Braben, shame. When it started crashing with hexdump errors across the top of the screen, there was no Google/Reddit/Discord or forum you could reach out to for help. The fix, if it came at all, was waiting for the patch to turn up on said magazine cover disc several months later. The shops would not refund a PC game even if coded badly, unlike Steam today. Basically stuck with a lemon and that’s just one example of a badly coded game from that era.

So yes there is much I lament about the passing of the simpler days of the 80’s and pre-internet 90’s, but our current hi tech, high speed connectivity does have its advantages.

 

I couldn't afford too many games back then. And everything also looked very choppy

 

Since I'm working in the business of PR I would like to say that if done right, it can do a lot of good.

My mentor 23 years ago gave me on important lesson I share for free: The more YOU tell, the less they will question. In my experience this has been true all the time.

On this basis in every first meeting I advice for the most transparent approach. Take your costumers with you on the journey. Value their input and explain yourself how you made your decisions in detail. Not everyone is ready to do that. There are a lot of reservations to that transparent.

If I take a look on from the outside on DTGs approach, I think they are in the middel in a transparency spectrum but in my opinion on a decline to less transparency. One example for me is TSW4 and every other release in the last years, since they worked on them for a long time but not telling us at all.

So yes it is a mixed bag, a lot of room for improvement but I still think, DTG does a good enough job on it.

Besides that, I love the approach of DTG to run this forum as open as they do. I understand the frustrations, I feel them too, but it is a good exercise in tollerating other opinions. Having this space to express these opinions though is really good and looking on other gaming companys a huge deal. So thank you for that.

 

Its a fine line though. One still has to deliver at the end of the day otherwise credibility and trust evaporates and is hard to then recover. I can think of many situations where explanations and prevarications have been offered, and this is tolerated up to a point. If we consider gaming specifically, early access (a whole separate conversation) is an area where open and transparent engagement by devs can make or break a title. The key element though is always ultimately delivery of quality product. Fail here and people walk and reputations are lost.
This is the area where DTG seems to attract the most criticism, even more so if we consider where TSW sits in its development cycle. There is a perception, justified or not, that for too long DTG have talked the talk but failed to deliver. Whether or not this is simply an image problem (please don't respond with lists of personal grievances and bugs- we know), it does need to be addressed if DTG hope to have the reputation they could have.
DTG are fortunate in that the overwhelming majority here want to see it succeed. Should that turn to bitterness as a result of misplaced trust, then DTG will have a problem.

 

In 7 days we will know. Only 7 more days before we get to play the highly anticipated new version of best Train Simulator on the planet.

 

Sadly they are far from open. Stuff like TSW4 had to be in planning for a really long time, the time when they still were talking about even fixing TSW2 problems. By that time, they knew that's not true for sure. And the fact they've even thrown TSW3 under the bus instantly says even more. Every roadmap up until the most recent one says fixes are coming for TSW3 (I wonder how "you will have to pay for these fixes" would go with the community in those roadmaps). So no, they're not open, quite the contrary.

 

What a right load of pony. All members are equally entitled to express their views, regardless of certain people on here trying to tell them what they should or shouldn't think. By the way my double glazing was completely free and the fitting.