Yeh same, Like London charing cross via woolich would be better for sehs and bml to london bridge would be better as well
Well now you’re just making a whole new route for SEHS & Victoria makes much more sense on BML. We’ll no doubt see LBG come in the form of a CML route, it’s not really a Branch line.
Somewhat surprised they didn't do King's Cross to Peterborough given they had both the Class 387 and Class 700 ready to go with AC mode simulated. Maybe they originally intended to make this segment but chose otherwise once they realised it couldn't be done in the required timeframe?
I Actually Couldn't agree more, The best message regarding DTG's choices with UK routes on the forums to date In my opinion, I'm just Disappointed, but what can I say? It definitely opens up the Door to future extensions To London kings cross and yeah...
not 70+ miles with 20+ stations. up to york/leeds is a few basic stations and 2 track (30miles each way )
Sadly I've lost hope of getting a route to King's Cross in-game now. If they didn't do it originally due to it being too complex, I doubt they'll find extending it from the Peterborough to Doncaster route much easier. I also rather not get something else like King's Cross to Cambridge without a decent express run and it not connecting up to Peterborough. MML South to Bedford could still be on the cards however, which would go well with a Class 700/1
It seems silly to put all the effort into a Class 700 model only to confine it to SEHS. There must be plans for reuse, like the Class 323 returning on Glossop. Not necessarily too complex, more likely too big a project for the timeframe they had to work with (they could probably build it had they been given enough time and resources).
Yes its only for pc it's been said many times and other threads will explain why its not on console. and it's not a pisstake at all, you should be lucky the editor is here
[QUOTE="MML South to Bedford could still be on the cards however, which would go well with a Class 700/1 [/QUOTE] I fell the same that this has a better chance. Bedford to Blackfriars would be 19 stations and about 53 miles. Similar distance to London commuter and will less stations. Even though Matt mentioned that London commuter was a very difficult route to make so not sure what the chances are of getting another similar route.
Just my opinion.. i'm happy they didn't do kings cross to peterborough and did peterborough to doncaster instead.. not every route needs loads of layers and stations to make it interesting, and knowing the route like i do in real life the variety of gameplay from the class 801 alone will be really, really good.. plus we already have 4 lines out of london as it is so in my opinion.. dtg absolutely nailed it choosing this section, and not kings cross
It wasn't because it was "too complex", it was because DTG have taken so much grief over making multiple suburban London routes they weren't about to do yet another. Besides, the section they chose allows the Azuma to rock-n-roll, which it can't do south of P'boro.
It's the time it takes to build each station, build a train vs how much development time is budgeted for. If we got an incomplete kgx to pbo imagine the witching here.
I think the choice of section is good and the most scenic. Though some extensions north would be nice to York maybe even Newcastle and Edinburgh in the future. As the alnmouth loop is a very scenic and iconic bit and cragintiny depot would be very nice to see. As well as blasting past the coast near Berwick towards Edinburgh. I dunno but I think the choice of section is a good start. If they extended it south then it might get too busy like LBN. So north is probably a better option for now. Can't wait to see see and play this route though! Love what I've seen so far and I love the azuma!
My only concern with this route being exactly that, back and forth high speed runs with really only one train type. King's Cross to Peterborough still has a fairly good high speed run with the added interest of numerous commuter service patterns. Sure it might be another London suburban route, but it's fairly distinct from GWE, SEHS and BML. And yes, even if they chose it to avoid London, the southern section would still likely have been a far more complex and time consuming project compared to this. I don't mind the route choice - it just seems strange why they didn't make the extra push and do King's Cross, especially when we have several of the necessary train types lined up and waiting, and given the frequency and popularity of it as a request.
I seem to remember Matt saying that essentially, building a route takes a LOT of time and effort to create. Peterborough to Doncaster is just over 80 miles with 5 very distinctive stations.. and if i remember correctly Matt said that building scenery isn't as easy as people think, and in reality 95%-98% is modelled manually, which if true would be very time consuming. Some people might think 'well Peterborough to Doncaster is mostly farm fields, how hard can it be?' but the reality is the scenery each and every mile is different (and that goes for every route).. it's not simply a case of copy and paste countryside scenery for 80 miles and job done. so when you consider how much work must have gone in to this 80 miles, it's 100% understandable why it doesn't extend to York (only one station but still 30 miles of *different* scenery and an entire new (and huge) station.. that would also be empty with the current rolling stock available in game, right at this moment at release (2tph in each direction with an additional 1tp2h using class 801.. there would be literally no other layers except the typical class 66) people say well just extend it to leeds.. that's even more difficult, there are 8 stations to model (7 more than adding york would create).. only 2 of which would use current rolling stock available right now at release, the other 6 would be completely unused.. Finally there's the 'why didn't they extend to london'.. if the question is why couldn't they simply extend an already 80+ mile route by a further 70+ miles.. and an additional 23 stations to model.. surely that doesn't need to explaining as to why that is an impossible ask. I get some people want a route that has loads of stations and loads of layers.. but we routes like that already. We don't have a proper, variable, UK high speed line with multiple stops, multiple calling patterns.. and people saying why not extend it here, or there.. firstly other than SEHS we have NEVER had a route extension (and you could argue SEHS wasn't extended but rather re-worked) secondly, we've never had a continuous route of this length before (80+ miles), ever.. this route is already breaking new ground and i cannot wait for this. people saying well it could be extended here or there i personally think are in for a very long wait.. by which i mean most likely never.. dtg will move on after release to the next project, then the next project.. and i for one am fine with that, i love what we are getting for the ECML, i will enjoy it for what it is without expecting any extensions, and look forward to whatever comes next. finally, and i feel a lot of people forget this.. the majority of people don't have hours and hours to play this game non-stop. Very few players would ever have time to consistently play a London - Leeds, London - York run.. but 30-50 minutes to run a Doncaster-Grantham, or Peterborough to Newark, or a full Doncaster to Peterborough? That falls much more nicely into an 'average' gameplayers timeframe Again, this is just one opinion amongst a sea of opinions lately, nothing more than that..
Well said! I do feel like whatever DTG do, there will be someone (or a small group) who are unhappy, sometimes unjustifiably. S
Anyways, I see it as a good opportunity. They can extend it northward or southward. And don’t rule out the possibility of ECML south. It could very much still happen. I’m hoping if it does happen, it comes as an extension to the current route so people can drive London to Doncaster in one run. And for the people saying that Peterborough to Doncaster is the best IC run for the azuma are forgetting York to Newcastle, which is shorter and would have made a lot more sense to include. Also anyone stating London - Peterborough isn’t a good intercity run is just coping. Sure you can have your opinions on routes, but London to Peterborough is a very good run in my eyes. You can get almost 45 mins to a hour of nonstop high speed running. The only actual reason why DTG didn’t include it is because it’s too “hard for them” to implement into the game. And also they needed a route where they can get away with adding one new train.
Yes but that’s the point, all the modern UK stuff was southern based. Even TSW 3’s debut for the UK was a London commuter line. London is one of many cities in the UK, loads of other options to explore, and I for one am glad TSW is doing so.
SEHS og started from London, the extension didn’t involve London at all. In fact our last London based route was in 2021 which was the original south eastern, ever since then the modern uk routes have been outside London. It’s been 2 years since we got a London based route. I kind of don’t believe the “we have enough London based routes” excuse for ECML though. I think it was more because of time and the fact that DTG wanted to include the easiest part of the ECML they could include
Regardless, we still have more London termini than Welsh, Scottish and northern routes. I'm glad we don't have another GWE style route of mostly stopping services and the one (or no) stopping 80x which is, frankly, dull as hell.
I'm just not personally into the idea that as soon as a route is announced.. there are so many comments it should be extended here, it should be extended there.. the reality is this route, like almost every single other route in the history if tsw.. has not and will not be extended. It's best to just assume that whatever route is announced, is how it's going to be. We haven't even got Peterborough to Doncaster in our hands yet, and so many are saying 'it'll be extended to london, it'll be extended to leeds, it'll be extended to york' i've even seen the same said about newcastle and edinburgh.. i'm not a betting woman but i would say with almost certain confidence that ecml, just like almost every other route, will not be extended at any point. don't get me wrong great if it is of course!.. but the reality is it almost definitely won't, so people need to accept Peterborough to Doncaster for what it is.. and what it is is a great choice of ecml mileage again, all the above is just my opinion of course
We only have Victoria, Paddington and St Pancras (in London), We have Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Leicester, Derby, Doncaster (now), Peterborough, Darlington and Leeds (outside london) In Scotland we have - Edinburgh Waverley, Glasgow Queen Street and Glasgow Central. For wales we haven’t gotten a Welsh route yet, which I agree with to be fair. Honestly speaking we don’t have that many London Centric routes (3 or 4 if you wanna count the LU). We don’t actually have that many London Termini in TSW
I can assure you in the Azuma the York end of York to Doncaster (the racetrack) is incredibly dull in the Azuma. For intercity services in the Azuma this section is much, much better and more ideal. Again Peterborough to Kings Cross is dull as dishwater as an intercity run as on most runs it is 75 miles of nothingness. There are two IC stopping patterns, non stop or stop at Stevenage. The stopping patterns on Peterborough to Donny is much more varied and so every run will be different. Intercity driving isn't just A to B in the sense KGX to PBO is, I despise that section in real life. I hate commuter driving stopping every two or so miles but having a bit of variation in the service is important. I respect your opinion but from experience completely disagree with it. Also my thoughts on SE modern commuter routes are well known so I won't take this thread off topic with those.
I mean you can’t necessarily rule out extensions. DTG will say one thing and do something else. But that’s my opinion.
agree with this 100%, glad i'm not the only one who thinks this way! While i wouldn't be opposed if this route was originally announced as York to Peterborough, we're really not missing much.. the stretch around temple hirst and the old eggborough power station where it curves for over a mile is interesting.. but other than that, with the current rolling stock we have in the game, we really aren't missing much i can guarantee that if this route did include the Doncaster to York section.. there would be a sizeable portion of players coming on the forum saying 'why is york so empty?'.. just like we had in birmingham cross city, glasgow cathcart etc. Don't get me wrong if they want to extend it then great! But it just feels every route that's announced (uk routes specifically) so many come out and say extend it here, extend it there.. i'm of the opinion that we haven't even got peterborough to doncaster in our hands yet, let's enjoy and appreciate that for what it is.. again, just my own personal opinion!
Now I don’t disagree with you at all, the best part of the ECML for intercity is still Newcastle to Edinburgh, but in the sense of variety, you would get a lot more from London -Peterborough than Peterborough- Doncaster. We only get an 801 which yes has variety, but is unmatched compared to a 387, and 700, also it enables the 700 to actually get a route to stretch its legs. Now I can understand your POV. But I personally would have taken the southern end over Doncaster to Peterborough, or even York to Newcastle over Doncaster to Peterborough, I mean they are almost identical but the York to Peterborough section is extremely scenic, which I could have easily taken over what we currently got. But to be fair Doncaster to Peterborough is better than nothing
