Enough Is Enough!!!

You still have not bought it? Finally the game feels like the game I wanted when I first saw an advertisement for a game called TSW 2 Rush Hour.

 

So, the passenger behavior is fixed? They behave like humans, board when they should, exit at the end, and don't just stand on the platform ignoring the only clear option of getting to their destination? Wow, why didn't they mention such a crazy upgrade?

Or are they the same mindless zombies occasionally accidentally stumbling into a train?

 

Oh I have a few videos in the can they just need editing Very Interesting to say the least.
And I just posted a video my daughter recorded rather than me and her editing it, she wanted to do it, and with a bit of effort and adjusting the Audio to a bearable level. It shows vanilla Vs Tod4 lighting overhaul ini the setting.

 

Even better. I was flabbergasted when playing ECML and saw that passengers are no longer orientated in one direction on the platforms. At first I noticed the platforms felt more lively. It's only when I noticed passengers weren't standing like zombies on the platform I understood why the platforms feel more lively.

To be honest this has not been implemented on Voralberg for as far as I have noticed but haven't seen much of that route yet. On Antelope Valley I also noticed some cool behaviour from NPC's. Some acknowledge your existence

And yes they still do a lot of stupid stuff but there has been a lot of improvement on the passenger front.

 

So it took three releases to actually get what you wanted from the first one? And you are happy paying for a third time for what you originally wanted?

Interesting take, my man. But to each to their own, I guess. If you are happy paying three times to eventually get what you want, then good for you.

 

Surely. I noticed when I bought this game that it was not bad in its core but it just felt like a buggy PC game. Something you would find on PC and people are content with it. I'm not talking about the PC players of the TSW game but on PC you find so many games that you can also find a lot of buggy games.

So I came to this forum to rant a lot about how it's a disgrace this game was out on Playstation in this state and they should do better as a train simulator is what consoles needed and that there was a lot of money to be made if they made this game feel like a console game.

They told me they were aware and were improving things so I believed them until TSW3 came out. I did not like that launch. If that was the console game they had envisioned they were wrong. That's why I was so eager to get a new paid update. The game was not yet a true console game
But in TSW4 I notice this game one day can become the Gran Turismo of railways

So does it bother me it costed me €150 to get the initial game I wanted? Hiring a few devs to make me the ultimate train game would cost me a lot more.


They kept their promise so I hope they are now earning a lot of cash because of it because that was my promise

 

I take the view I have purchased three cracking new routes, a very nice steam loco and one of the best electric locos in game since the DB 101, all for less than one route and one loco add on would have cost. The core update is a bonus as are the forthcoming editors.

Look I get it some people are not happy but at this point you are flogging a dead horse, it’s a done deal. You either fit in or go elsewhere.

 

Wait a second, as someone who didn't keep up on all the news, are the current gen (PS5 and Xbox Series X) consoles no longer st feature parity with PC when it comes to traffic layers within routes for TSW4?

Can you elaborate or expand a bit more on this please? I've tried searching with no luck.

 

Hold on a second, I must be misreading this, right? According to you, they promised something, TSW3 failed that promise, so you were eager to pay them again and now you hope TSW4 will at some point become the promise...?

Only to follow that with saying they actually DID fulfill the promise?

 

Yes you read that wrong. They never promised me Gran Turismo. They promised me a Train simulator for consoles. TSW4 is just that. And now I want them to become the Gran Turismo of railways.

 

Best of luck to you, maybe you shouldn't buy everything they put out regardless of quality then. You know... it kind of lowers their incentive to improve if rushed products get bought anyway.

 

I cancelled Game Pass because I stopped playing Starfield. Long development cycle, delays, lot's of cash and the end result is that I can't stop playing TSW4 instead. I think Playstation incentivised DTG enough to make console players more happy. I'm happy with the result of my ranting about what needs to be changed.

Sure I can go look for every bug there is in the game but there is so much improved in this game that I still did not have time to find any major annoyances besides the distance bar

 

Maybe many of us enjoy the three routes they have released for a good price, as we have enjoyed most of the content in the past iterations of the game?

Maybe, you know, we can make our own decisions!

 

Fit in? What is this, a cult?

If you want to be in your own echo chamber, protected from opinions that differ from yours, then maybe you should go elsewhere. A forum is to discuss different opinions and views.

 

It's a support forum for a game. Not a social media platform. I think there has risen some confusion about that. DTG was bought by Focus not Elon Musk

 

Well considering some of the angst on here of late, it does seem that some of the "I hate TSW" brigade seem to have trouble accepting that there actually people out there who enjoy TSW, also basically calling people "stupid" which has been implied several times in the last few weeks is not exactly a good way to get your point across. This thread has some similarities of an echo chamber to be honest.

Of course, people should be able to post what they want as long as DTG doesn't object.

 

Indeed but constantly harping on when 95% of the people are enjoying the updated game seems a pointless exercise at this point. Just comes across as bitter and twisted. DTG are not likely to change their policies because of a few rumblings.

Is TSW4 perfect? No of course not. Already pointed out a few issues myself and you know quite nicely I am not afraid to criticise DTG when things aren’t right. Look no further than my infamous refund history…

Would it have been better if the core update was free and paid for by the route pack purchase? Of course it would, I don’t deny that for a moment. But this has already been debated ad nauseum prior to release and nothing changed.

And I have no intention of going anywhere else. This is the developer/publisher official forum and it is credit to DTG how much latitude they extend in allowing people to voice opinions, positive or negative. Other game developer forums would have locked or deleted a thread like this long ago.

 

I find it somewhat ironic, given traditional societal views of the sort of folks who are as into trains as everyone here, that anyone among our community would say people need to "fit in".

Possibly not the best choice of phrasing.

 

The sentiment in this topic has become resentment because TSW4 is well perceived that's what most annoying. People who clearly don't want to play TSW have become very disrespectful towards people that actually play TSW and like it.

Or you like the game or not but when a launch like this is well perceived why bother being negative when you even have not tested it out yourself? So yes fit in is not badly phrased. The game won't go another direction when things are not as disastrous as predicted by some. If this is a cult there were some false prophets among us

 

Sure. Here you go.

 

This is the singlemost problem for me.
The shadow/detail draw distances were poor in TSW2020, TSW2, TSW3 and now TSW4 so, aside from the 1080p > 4K resolution jump, there have been no core performance improvements (on consoles) for as long as I have actively been involved in the game. That I'm afraid is the deal-breaker for me.

To put things more into perspective: I completely removed the HUD on SPG, ran it in TSW2 and recorded a few minutes of footage, then did the same with Cajon in TSW3....and (bearing in mind SPG predates TSW2) I actually thought that SPG looked the better of the two routes!

Progress?

To be fair though, at face value the discounted standard edition does represent very good value for money but at the end of the day it's just another quantity over quality release that I'm finding incredibly difficult to justify a purchase of.

 

On forums people tend to lurch gowards binary or absolutist interpretations. As is often the case, a middle ground exists where its possible to like something, dislike something, watch others do both of those things and still remain secure in your own view, my own of which is simple and already explained numerous times.
To be clear, pointing out areas for improvement is not to detract or denigrate others enjoyment of the title, nor is it an implication of any lack of such enjoyment either. It is simply what it is, a desire for improvements to core issues like flickering and stuttering to a point where I feel my purchase will result in sufficient of said enjoyment.

 

You've complained about this thread being unnecessarily long, well, in it, the reasoning for negativity is well explained and repeated a couple of times, it mostly revolves around DTG lying to customers and locking fixes behind an artificial paywall. I seriously don't need to try TSW4 (and pay for it) to know this. And no, I will really not fit into this concept and its defenders.

 

I agree...but there does come a time when you can no longer just accept an annual/bi-annual game for what it is.
WRC for example. I stopped purchasing it at #8 because as time passed it became more and more apparent that all I was paying for was a few feature updates to justify the annual price tag, so much as I liked the franchise it simply wasn't worth continuing my support of a product that was clearly going nowhere.

 

Sure but don't expect me to take you anymore seriously from now on. I know what this game looked like and I used to be critic myself but I can't keep complaining when I notice that my complaints are being taken seriously. I really expected the ringleaders in this topic to enjoy a lot of schadenfreude when TSW4 launched. Sadly for them it did not happen. Some of my posts in this topic aged well so far

 

Can we just accept some people actually like the direction TSw is taking, and that not everyone is happy with it?

 

I think that’s the big takeaway here and after 28 pages this threads probably run its course. It’s all downhill from here.

 

Absolutely, and to be honest what others do is very much up to them. It's one reason why I am happy to ignore the more inflammatory posts that can be found here.
What I will continue to do is highlight more obvious issues that are present, and will continue to highlight a lack of due regard to those issues.
It's to no one's benefit to hide from that or to somehow pretend it's all fine. Flickering, stutters and other commonly spoken of issues are omnipresent and acknowledged. It's to everyone's benefit to see solutions to such issues.

PS- When we see a different approach and we see in an empirical sense issues being fixed and addressed in a timely manner, then I will become TSW's greatest advocate. Until such time calling it as it is perhaps is better for the long term future of the franchise than quiet or complicit acquiescence. One can try and leverage change, or one can not. Its all a matter of choice and ultimately it is definitely easier to just walk away from the product and find fun in other genres (something in fact that I currently am doing). Again for anyone with an interest in the genre and anyone who see's potential in TSW as a franchise, its probably better to have such people sticking around. Otherwise all youll end up with is an echo chamber and zero impetus for positive change.

One very good reason to not attack anyone for a view that does not align with your own.

 

For me I play on console as it is cheaper than buying a quality Computer and less effort to make work. I like that it is separate from day to day life on the computer. I am not a 12 year old before someone asks. But seriously having this game on console was a dream a few years ago and still cant believe it is a reality

 

Well you said youself in another thread that you don't recommend buying TSW4 on Xbox. I guess I'm taking that advice

 

You don't have to take my advice but I would also recommend buying a Playstation. Thank me later

 

Ooh I think that's rather harsh Vern. The inference is that we should " shut up, take our ball and go home ", accept what we are given and quit complaining about bugs and other problems in the game.

As for " fit in or go elsewhere ", I find that rather scary as a philosophy.

Do you have a source for that percentage? Actually, I'm not unhappy with TSW4 as a whole, especially given the low price for the deluxe edition and I would guess that I'm in the majority, but, reading the forums over the last 4 days, I wouldn't suggest such an overwhelming wave of approval.

You've used the phrase " harping on " more than a couple of times recently, but my recollection is that you yourself are not averse to that behavior when it suits your purpose. Harping on about something is the way we've gotten some results from DTG, such as the save game restoration. Sometimes it's the right strategy.

Maybe one day you'll get the buffet car of your dreams.

 

^^^
Fear not. I think it's fair to say that most people pay little attention to those who have no idea which side of the fence they want to be on...or worse still, swap to the 'cool' side when it's appropriate to do so.

 

I don't know where else to put this so here goes:

I suspect I'm the only player to run the game where I play the DLC's in the order they were released down to what version was on what.

To that end, I purchased TSW3 because DTG (for reasons only they can explain) intends to take it off the Steam store tomorrow when TSW4 is released.

When I did this, TSW2 updated and I wasn't sure why. I go into the game, I see Spirit of Steam now there even though it was never a TSW2 route.

This ate up almost 5GB of space and unless I have 12.5GB free, I can't run GWE.

I really don't understand why Spirit of Steam was installed, it's not playable and I can't uninstall it.

Another example of DTG forcing people to buy a version of the game because they have no good reason for pulling it.

I would name names but based on the SPG Derail thread, we know who the lead developer/head of the game is and it can only be my hope he even considers giving an explanation.

 

Er, Spirit of Steam was always a TSW2 route.

Right-click on Train Sim World 2 in the Steam games list, click on properties, click on DLC, untick Spirit of Steam.

 

That would involve buying new hardware and rebuying all TSW content. Blegh, no thanks. If they can't get it running properly on the platforms they sell on, it really shouldn't be there in the first place.

 

I'm seeing it like OldVern does, you get three very good routes plus the Scotsman, Azuma, F125 and the Vectron, update included. If the game is named TSW3 or 4 then doesn't really matter to me, as we've been through this since TSW2020 > TSW2 (which I got for €7.49 on a Steam sale.)

 

Perhaps I was a little harsh earlier, apologies for any offence and be assured I do understand and respect the views of everyone posting.

For my penance I have decided to sentence myself to two hours in Blender, see if I can work out how to retexture some of my old MSTS bits and pieces I managed to rip out of my routes with Shape Converter…

 

You’re a good egg, Vern

 

My gripe, and it is probably my only gripe, is not that it isn’t good value but that you’ve effectively been forced to buy it if you wish to stay on the TSW train. I didn’t board this particular train thinking that I was going to be asked to pay again for my ticket halfway to the destination. I definitely didn’t think I’d have had to buy the same ticket an absolute minimum of 4 times.

The game is progressing (albeit glacially) and for most of us that are this far in we really have no choice but to keep going. They (the marketing people) know that, and that’s why this kind of corporate behaviour really winds me up.

 

That's what I was trying to convey in my earlier post. They shouldn't take the previous version of the game off the store when the new one is released.

As you said, they effectively forced us to buy something we may not be ready to buy yet with no logical and/or reasonable explanation from the guy who essentially runs the whole operation (developed title or not).

Strangely, the only quote from my other post was severely cut up and only mentioned the second and less important issue I mentioned.

 

Because that issue was nonsensical. Spirit of Steam is a TSW2 route and you can uninstall it.

 

How is taking a previous version of the game off the store when the latest version is released "nonsensical"?

As I said before, my way of playing is admittedly unusual but not everyone plays the same way or the same version.

If they would just leave it up and give us the option to buy whichever version we want at any time instead of making us buy it (for those who want to and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way on this option) then we wouldn't be complaining.

Go ahead and disagree with me. That's absolutely your right. Just don't insult me or my intelligence by calling it "nonsensical". That's NOT your right.

 

You said it wasn't a TSW2 route, but it is. You said you can't install it, but you can. Those were the parts that were being described as nonsensical, a better word may be false.

 

They need to just be honest. And just sell the game as TSW, but include patches in an annual subscription you buy separately.

 

Put simply:

- SOS was released as a route before TSW3 was available; ie. it is a TSW2 route
- When you buy a route through the TSW3 store page whether its via the in game one, Steam, PSN, Xbox or Epic stores, you are automatically granted the license to the earlier game versions of that route, if it was available (ie. buying SOS on the TSW3 store page granted you the license for SOS on TSW2 as well)
- Steam auto downloads DLC that you buy, for games that you already have installed; thus since you had TSW2 installed as well as TSW3, it started the TSW2 download for SOS as well as presumably for TSW3 (which probably cancelled itself due to lack of drive space)
- The above license thing willl presumably also apply to TSW4, so if you were to buy GWE (for example) on the TSW4 store page, you also will get the license for it for TSW3, 2, and 2020, and if any of those three are installed, they will also have their versions of GWE installed automatically by Steam

 

Previous versions are removed because they effectively become obsolete when a new one is released so there's no logical sense leaving them available for purchase. If you own TSW3 then all it's DLC's will still be there should you choose not to purchase TSW4 - and if you don't own TSW3 then you may as well just buy TSW4 anyway!
Also, having just one game on sale at any given time would completely remove any confusion as to which DLC works with which version.

What Jetwash was quite rightly saying is that if you own TSW3 you will waive the right to essential fixes for content you already own unless you stump up for the new game.....and that will happen regardless of whether TSW3 remains on sale or not.

 

At least someone finally answered so thank you for that.

However, it's not up to DTG to determine whether previous versions of the game are obsolete for us players.

I understand and appreciate that most, if not all, DLC's are compatible with newer versions of the game but maybe I want to play TSW2 DLC with JUST TSW2?

As already stated more than once, my style of play and how I do it is unique so I am fully aware of that but it exists.

I'm not asking for a discount on TSW3. I have no problem paying full price. I'm asking for the right to purchase it when I am ready to not when they want based on a newer version coming out.

As for that last part, it's my right to express what may be wrong with certain DLC as well as expecting a fix and a response when Matt (naming names cause he responded on the thread in question) asked me what was wrong rather than months of silence.

 

What's stopping you?