TSW 4 is not the only game that's gotten a new version a year or so after the previous version. Could DTG's have included everything into TSW 3? I don't know as I'm not a developer and I don't know what formed their decision. I bought two deluxe versions. One to play on my PC and Steam Deck and one for my PS4 and PS5. Three new routes, plus an updated route, plus two new loco's feels like a bargain to me. I'm thinking about $40 per route plus maybe $15-$20 a loco. There were discounts on the game too. How long would you have to wait to buy everything included in TSW 4 at a sale price? Probably a few months at least. People, like me, don't want to wait so I paid now and so did a lot of other train fans. Like others I hope it's not a yearly occurrence but I actually focused on what I felt TSW 4 was: a pretty good bargain. It works great on my Steam Deck so I can play it anywhere I want which is awesome. I played it on my PS4 because I wanted to see how it played on a last gen system it and it played great. It plays great on my PS5 where I've put in the most time so far. It just feels more immersive to me. I'm downloading the game on to my PC now which will be the focus of my gameplay after testing on my other systems. I understand people's thoughts on this release and I'm not going to say that their negative thoughts are invalid. This community knows more about trains real or virtual then I'll even know about in my life. You have all brought things to my attention that I've never even thought about so bravo. I'm really enjoying the game and I hope everybody else is too. Thank you DTG's.
Last time I checked, those games don't release 50+ dlc and repackage them into a new game every year and pretend that it is revolutionary The new WRC game coming out this year has new features that justify a new game. Also it's being made by a different developer (Codemasters) when they were previously made by a previous developer. If you are going to make a new game, do something that actually warrants a new game. Even some ambassadors have said that the "new features" weren't significant enough to justify a brand new game. And just because other games may do this doesn't mean DTG should especially since they don't do it in Train Sim Classic Also just because the price may be good, it doesn't mean that the practice isn't. Players will have to re-download the same routes they already own again and there have been many problems that players have already experienced with some not able to get content on day one. It's not a sustainable practice
Do you not see the difference? With Madden, FIFA, F1 etc you delete the last version and install the same game again +1. This happens every year for the last 20 or more. It doesn't matter what you earned or bought previously, each is a new version, a new game, nothing carries over. With TSW they keep adding DLC, this means that each year when you delete and re-download the figure increases. We are now up to 85 DLC, next year it will likely be 100+ and so on and so forth every year. It isn't one in and one out, the figure increases each year. Plus, and this is the really good part, there are all sorts of entitlements connected to these DLC...so if you bought a disc version, or a bundle, or if was a prior core DLC (there were multiple versions of TSW/TSW2020) these have to be manually updated by each platform often at the behest of TSW fixers after the release date because people are waiting impatiently for their content which hasn't become available. This is, as many have said, completely unsustainable. It is not getting them anything more than an annual route bundle and core update would achieve, it is just making more work for the grunts while the top people pat themselves on the back for another successful game release. In modern businesses it is a shame so few people can or are even willing to manage upwards, because sometimes those at the top need taking down to small the coffee occasionally. Of course there is another element too. People who don't fancy anything in the bundle, or who are on a low powered internet connection, may not want to have to do this every single year. Well bad luck if you were waiting for any updates to the content you bought in the last six months or so, because the new version is now a paywall that stops you receiving the updates that have been worked on. This is the sting in the tail. Yes its a faff to go through all this, and in essence if you want continued support and don't want the new content its a forced annual sub. But if you don't pay up its goodbye any support whatsoever. You may as well have a 10 year old game, rather than something you bought 6 months ago on release day. Personally I will not purchase anything further while these practices are carried on. It sucks but someone has to take a stand. It is grossly anti-consumer and given the niche market and the small playerbase it beggars belief that someone like DTG would think they can carry on like EA or Blizzard. The marketing people who are running the show and telling the devs what to do at DTG need exiting from the building so that the game, which has its routes over 15 years now, can carry on without destroying itself. Even Xbox has issues now on top of the PS DLC limit, the whole thing is going to come straight off the rails. (ironically enough)
If TSW was one download everytime it was repackaged, I wouldn’t care. Downloading an ever increasing amount of DLC’s is not working for me. We’re what, 5 years into TSW now with 80+ packs, by the time we get TSW 5 that number will likely be 100+. I very much doubt DTG, storefronts and the customer base can keep up with these logistics. It’s already breaking down.
This silly argument again... I mean the games you bought up as examples are also ridiculed for releasing practically the same game each year. So your point is...? That TSW doing it is fine, because some other highly ridiculed games also do it?
And people continue to buy those titles in their millions despite such ridicule. People ridicule but they are still buying it and always will. £££
F1 23's sales are down by nearly 50% in Europe alone. Also the steam peak player count hasn't reached F1 22's peak player numbers. People do wake up to these practices thankfully https://racinggames.gg/f1/f1-23-launch-sales-disappoint/
Wonder if it was some pathetic conversation at the top along the lines of "well if somebody bought a route 6 years ago and doesn't want anything else, how do we get money from that person? Why not make fixes only applicable to a new version and they'll have to pay us for the patches". Sounds ridiculous, but that's the kind of loser ideas that come up in shareholder driven companies.
You can call it monitisation, customer lifetime value etc and so on. Its why we have software as a service and live service games, a box price just isn't enough. There is generally a stock market penalty for failing to even equal last year's profit. Making a profit just isn't enough these days. Getting more from less, its even where shrinkflation comes from.
I really don't understand this argument. Because the installing of all the dlc again has caused issues this time and the time before. The updates could have surely been core as nothing much changed and they could've released 3 new routes and wouldn't have broken the xbox version and had all these specific issues again? I love the game don't get me wrong and I want it to succeed, it just seems like every time we get a new game something somewhere breaks pretty badly?
Snowrunner has a cheap annual season pass (core updates are free) and this model is well into it's third year. The Crew 2 had completely free annual core updates for (I think) SIX years. The Crew: Motorfest has exactly the same business model. Not forgetting Farming Sim. Instead of Giants just pocketing annual profits they used the money to develop an ultra-niche product and turned it into a hugely successful franchise. Nobody is robbing you blind with £12.99 tractors or £29.99 locations in FS22 - everything is there completely free of charge *for all platforms*. Giants are happy, the modders are happy and more importantly it's userbase is happy. DTG's problem is (and always will be) that they'd sooner sell 1000 units at £30 and bumble along with a niche product than they would aiming for 10,000 units at £10 in an effort to make it more mainstream appealing....so let's not even start to imply that TSW has a value for money element because that's about as far away from the truth as could possibly be. Sorry.
You all have good points. I just think this is the way gaming is right or wrong. Yes gamers don't like a lot of annual releases but my point is everybody got a great deal if they bought the game. For less then the price of a new game you got a lot of new content. A lot. What new content of equivalent value do you get from F1, Madden, NBA 2k etc? Nobody's making anyone buy the new game. Stay with TSW 3 and wait for a sale, as I don't see any problem with that. It seems like a lot of people just want to be angry with DTG. I'm having a lot of fun with the game. Is it perfect? No, but I'm not going to hate on DTG's because they didn't release TSW 4 in the exact way I wanted. I understand gamers wanted it released the way they thought was proper, maybe in another year or two. But it's a business and they really can't ask everybody what is best for them. If it ends up hurting sales then hopefully they'll learn a lesson. But I'm happy with the game on all my systems and I am having a great time. And your right the dlc installations apparently were an issue again for a lot of people. I think I downloaded the dlc three different ways on Steam Deck, PS4, and PS5 so I hear you. Thank you for your responses.
How is TSW4 a good deal? The new routes do have good features, but are just as buggy as as every other previous release. So they barely worth their prices even if I am interested in them. And if I am not interested in the new routes, then what is the deal? It's just a paywall to future fixes and releases. Just look at how the fixes are released for TSW4, but not for TSW3 yet. Or let's say in the future they release an NJT Arrow pack for NY-Trenton. It will only be available to TSW4. I would be forced to buy TSW4 to get get a loco DLC for a TSW3 route? How in the hell is that a good deal in any way? No matter how you twist it it, TSW4 is nothing more than a shameless cashgrab. And just because certain other game studios also release shameless cashgrabs, it does not make this okay.
Having an annual release isn't really the problem here, it's all about the manner in which you leave the previous version behind you before deciding to moving on. The key point with most** of the games you mentioned though is that if (for whatever reason) you don't want to move on to the next 'exciting' episode then you don't have to because it's highly likely that the version you already have will generally be of a good enough standard to allow you to make that choice - so sticking instead of twisting isn't really such a big deal. ** this excludes Kylotonn Games because, not unlike DTG, they have a nasty habit of overlooking any form of moral obligation towards their customers so you actually do have a valid claim where WRC is concerned
I really don’t care if we got a new game every year. If it’s a slight improvement over the previous version and I can use all my dlc on it, then I see no problem. If DTG are becoming like EA etc, so be it. That’s life. As long as my experience is the same then I have nothing to complain. You either accept it or you find another train sim. As it stands though ‘I LOVE TSW4’.
Great mindset if you love being scammed out of every single on of your remaining pennies, lol. You know what they say, "be the change you want to see". So with that mindset I am not buying cashgrab garbage, because I would like to motivate the studio to do better - because they could, if they wanted to.
For me the price tag isn't really the problem, from my point of view I'm fine getting 3 routes for the price of 1 since I enjoy content from all countries, the problem for me is I don't want to have to install literally hundreds of DLC's every year whenever there's a new game. It took me 6 hours to download all my routes and locos for TSW 4 since the internet in my area is awful and that number is only gonna increase every year of they keep making a game every year so I implore DTG not to turn this into a yearly franchise. I also think the whole Steam situation where many people couldn't get their routes and the headache that brought may put DTG off from making a new game every year, or maybe Focus entertainment will step in and say not to milk the franchise every year.
Also, personally I don't want to see 10 different Train Sim World entries in my Steam library. I already have TSW 2020 with 184 hours in it, TSW2 with 321 hours, and TSW3 with 210 hours. Wouldn't it be better to just have a single TSW entry that says I have 600 hours? I don't want to keep collecting different copies of the same game. While this is one of the lesser issues with the whole re-release principle, it is still a contributing factor as why I am less and less likely to spend money on this franchise. I do not want 5 copies of the same game. Interestingly Train Simulator Classic managed to remain a single entry since 2009. Now imagine, if TSC was monetized the same way TSW is, we would have like 10 different TSC releases... This is just ridiculous.
And your mindset… new game equals ‘I’m getting scammed’. I’m not being scammed. I’m still able to play all my existing content on the newest version of the game. What I’m not doing though is complaining about a game that’s never going to live up to my expectations.
Who does that? Maybe delete TSW2020 and TSW2. You’ll just have TSW3 then. There I just solved your problem for you, and freed up some space on your hard drive too.
NEC isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. I couldn’t imagine playing that route now on the first TSW game in 2023. It would be a horrible experience. Lacking so many features, washed out skies, bad graphical textures and of course worse fps spikes.
TSW 2020 + NEC Newark - New Rochelle takes up 24GB. Additional 780 MB for the GP40-2. Not worth deleting in times of Terabyte storage, occasionally I go back and enjoy the pretty design of the UI and its sounds.
DTG promises a bunch of great features for TSW2 or TSW3 (livery designer 2.0, scenario designer 2.0, NY-Trenton timetable, etc) so you buy TSW2 or TSW3 based on these promises, only for these promises to be dropped and instead they release TSW4 and lock all of these previously promised imrpovements behind a paywall. Would you care to explain to me how is this not a scam?
"Guys look, these games are also doing a bad practice, so it's fine that DTG does a bad practice." How about we criticize all of them equally for this? Why does a customer-friendly model work with TSC, but TSW has to go for this? Would a unified core version with all the upgrades keep them away from doing route bundles you all brag about? No. They could still do it, you could still buy it. TSW would have only ONE version of the game, easier to update, and all parties involved would be happy. Doubt it would even hurt the sales. TSC does it, TSW did it as well.
A scam would be paying for something you never received. You still have a working game and everything that you paid for upon release. The updates are optional. What you fail to understand is if they stuck with one version of the game, they wouldn’t be able to make enough money to further improve the game. Instead we’d be stuck with TSC quality visuals for the rest of our lives or TSW2020 quality. If you cared about the franchise you’d support the devs and pick up the new version. I paid £31.99 for 2 amazing routes, minus the ECML. I’m on the side lines with that one (snooze fest). Plus 2 loco add ons. All in all it was expectation value and the antelope and Swiss routes are amazing drives.
The thing is, people have already done that with previous iterations of TSW but you sometimes can't help but feel that the more you "care" and "support", the more DTG just take advantage of that fact by releasing content at or around the lowest level of acceptable quality they can realistically get away with. After all, what is the point of anyone wasting valuable time and resources in order to ensure consistently high levels of quality when most people will buy it regardless?
