Nec: New York - Trenton Is A Performance Nightmare, Even On High-end Pcs

someone in this thread earlier posted they had the same constant hitching issue with an RTX 4090... that's a $1600 GPU. This is not an issue of "lower spec pcs". It's one thing if the frame rates are reduced as that can be expected with a larger route or a packed timetable, (this is what the reduced timetable is for), but I just truly don't believe the hitching/freezing is related to that. There is a deeper optimization issue at play here.

Same for myself, recording or not, it's the exact same in terms of performance. Some people are under the impression we have tons of applications running in the background, but I've done runs with OBS closed, anti-virus disabled (it's avast so it's only using ~80MB of RAM at any given time anyway), browsers closed, using -DX12, and even in task manager, changing the CPU priority setting to favor TSW4 over any other application. No difference.

 

I'm getting hitching even starting at the Trenton end of the route, where there are very few trains.

It's not a ram issue, my system is only using 22GB, of the 64GB it has availible.


My FPS is fine on the route, none of my components are being stressed according to Hardware monitor. It's something else causing the hitches/stuttering.

 

On the new full timetable i haven't been able to play any of the time table routes of the ALP46-NJT as when loading it just hangs and then crashes with an unreal engine crash. I've played a few of the other routes on the Amtrak ACS46 and the NU Transit Multilevel Cab Car, i have had stutters, the Amtrak ACS46 ran smoother, but i'll continue playing it to see how it goes, and i'll do a few tweaks to my graphics card.

 

If it's Unreal engine's shader compilation stutter then it will be just as bad on the reduced timetable as that too won't have compiled shaders yet, try doing two consecutive runs without fiddling with settings in between and see if it improves things.

 

I’m using the old timetable and I’m getting the same pauses and hitching. So is definitely not the new timetable

 

I'll be trying this route (full timetable) out tonight in TSW4 with my PC to see how it reacts.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5600X
GPU: Asus Nvidea GeForce 3070Ti
Memory: 32Gb PNY DDR4 3200Mhz
SDD: WD Black SN850 500Gb

 

So using the reduced timetable getting the same stuttering,frame drops, game pauses.

 

I wonder if the problem could be with the passengers. They do not disembark and remain on the train, therefore forming a fixed part of the scene. I remember once someone said that there is a certain number of passengers that are supported at a station...

Is there no "command" about passengers to put in a file so that this option is configurable?

I have a reasonable configuration, but what I think would happen in my case would be a reduction in FPS, not constant stuttering.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5600G
GPU: Asus Nvidea GeForce GTX 1660 Super 6GB
Memory: 16Gb Kingston DDR4 2100Mhz
SDD: WD Green SN350 1TB

 

I don't know if enabling/disabling passengers to any capacity on a route/timetable is possible for testing, but if so, I truly hope they play around with this. I'm assuming they'd have to replicate the issues some of us are having on one of their systems in order to see if it's of course improving or not.

Again, DTG Matt I'd be happy to be involved in the testing if at all possible. I work from home so I have a lot of free time to help if of course, you can't replicate these issues on your end.

Also, doubt this is much help, but since I'm running out of things to try, I decided to remove half of my (4x16gb) 64gb ddr4 3600 MHz RAM to see if that would make any sort of difference in performance (didn't think it would), and the same issues persist on the same level they did once before.


Loading into a NJT service at NYP ~7:11am

 

From my knowledge, that's what should be happening when your system doesn't quite meet the demands of the application. Loss in frames per second. This occurrence is more reasonable for NYP, especially during busy parts of the day. The stuttering though, even for me on the Trenton side of the route during the middle of the night, shouldn't be happening.

 

Interesting to hear about other peoples experiences of these stutters, this is starting to seem like an existing problem for specifically some players that is especially bad with this timetable.
A symptom rather than cause situation maybe?

 

So Bremen has no passengers and PIS don’t work so there are other issues that TSW4 have introduced. I finished my service on the reduced timetable and I’m getting the same stuttering, freezing, and pausing. Also same issue with aleter going off and no passengers at any stations other than penn stationI’m probably going to down load TSW3 and NJT again to compare. As I think with lol these issues being reported.
Again this was using the REDUCED Timetable

 

is not the timetable. I’m getting the same stutter on the reduced timetable. Is an issue with TSW4. Bremen has no passengers and PIS not working. Also we have alerters going off. Please stop blaming the new timetable .

 

You've right! I've do further investigation and written also that my thoughts are that there something wrong is with the double-deck trains... So that this coaches are bugging as hell and maybe caused the stutters.

 

Looks as though buffers haven't been installed at NY Penn. station. (Full service timetable) Getting the same freezing as others have mentioned during game play. Frame rate constant around 60fps though. No overclocking. Settings 'Ultra'.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5600X
GPU: Asus Nvidea GeForce RTX-3070Ti
Memory: 32Gb PNY DDR4 3200Mhz [DOCP activated on Asus X570F Gaming motherboard]
SDD: WD Black SN850 500Gb

 

I’m re-installing TSW 3 to compare the reduce time led on TSW4 with the TSW3 timetable and report back findings. This is for PC steam as I have no issues with Xbox X

 

this is why I so very desperately cannot wait for the updated timetable to be patched into TSW3. If there is no stuttering in that case, it's 100% a TSW4 issue. Wouldnt be shocked if one or many of these new bugs introduced since TSW4 was the culprit for this performance issue on some systems.

 

For Windows users, might it be worthwhile to have Task Manager running when playing, so you can see right away what's spiking when hard stuttering/freezing happens?

 

Sir, you just admitted that when the route came out, it had a 'reduced' timetable. But of course DTG charged £29.99 for this piece of content, which you guys only fixed because of the huge backlash (and it's behind TSW4 paywall at the moment, as no one knows if this update will ever make it into TSW3). This is how you marketed this route:

"Includes 5 scenarios and an extensive 24-hour timetable."

Extensive is not the same as reduced.

And then you're telling the community that you might look into it? Guys here cannot run it on machines with RTX 4090 cards and 128GB of RAM. Come on... If my work ethic was like DTG's, then tomorrow I'd only go in to pick up my P45.

 

All of this is quite concerning. That makes twice that DTG has rushed out a timetable for NYT without understanding their own product. The response to just use the lesser timetable comes across as fairly cavalier while also being (apparently) factually wrong. There is more to be said about that, later.

For now, and I direct this to all interested testers but especially MAX1319 , what I am wondering is about removing all "prospective" layers for NYT. Not just LIRR, but also potentially SPG, CJP, and HSC because, although these layers have supposedly been deactivated, I mean really, who knows? Also to try without BPE, because doesn't it offer the ACS64 layer to NYT? And it goes without saying, to not use CC liveries. Really just spitballing here though.

I am of a mind to try NYT on my lowly Series S running TSW3. I mean, after all, if they can't get this to work after so many tries, what hope is there for the future, and in that case, what's one last DLC purchase anyway? Who knows, maybe the weak TSW3 NYT timetable on Series S is the best NYT we're ever going to get.

 

working on a video with this now

 

DTG Matt. So I’m currently running TSW3 to compare with TSW4 reduce timetable and my initial findings is less stutter and the big difference that I can see is passengers. Passengers are fully packed on trains and just riding them. They are getting off and on. Now don’t get me wrong this is unreal engine we are talking about so do you have your normal stutter but not like what we have in TSW4 PC. And to be honest I’m actually getting better FPS on TSW4 than on TSW3. Also on the TSW3 you don’t have the alerter constantly going off on AI trains. So imaging every train that spawns in full of passengers and passengers not getting off the trains. That has to be very heavy load on systems. Maybe the passengers have something to do with it maybe not. But is a good place to start

 

I am really curious to see if the TSW3 version will also has all of these issues, if the update ever releases for TSW3 as well. Will the passengers disappear? Will the alerter be constantly going off in AI trains? Will the route performance change? Or are these simply TSW4 specific issues?

 

Bakerloo also has new problems in TSW 4, like rain in all of the underground stations. This was not the case in tsw2 or tsw3. And bakerloo didnt had any updates. So something in tsw4 is breaking stuff.

 

I tried looking through my game and the timetable route you are showing is not on my list unless it's hiding as another timetable number? But I can't find the one shown below, I screen-grabbed it.
I find others but not this one. I will look in my TSW3 game and see, but who knows? what is happening or why is this happening?
Could be an oversight or they just forgot to add it to the list for transition to TSW4.

it from the video.

 

The way I understand it is the threads command specifies the number of parallel threads.

A (bad?) analogy might be opening up all the lanes on a multi lane highway ('useall availablecores').....then allowing cars to actually use all those lanes simultaneously rather than just continuing on in 1 or 2 lanes single file ('threads')

In any case; I don't believe this had any affect for those having an issue on NYT....although applying these commands may see some performance gains across the board (especially if your CPU is being bottlenecked)

 

Great work. What you are saying makes sense. It is also something that someone at DTG could have (should have?) noticed, prior to releasing the new timetable, supposing that anyone was paying attention. Instead, they cut freight layers to make ends meet, which brings up an interesting point: if they had fixed the passengers (and alerter) first, would cutting the freight layers even had been necessary?

I don't know if NYT-updated will ever be fixed, if it will ever be released for TSW3, or if it is, if the TSW3 version will have the same problems or not. It's a shame we couldn't have the new timetable for TSW3 concurrently in order to draw comparisons, I mean we could have, but you know, DTG. If DTG doesn't just drop support for NYT entirely, which is a distinct possibility, then my suggestion would be to have some extensive playtime and testing before the third major update. The third time's the charm, as they say.

 

No not in system ini settings. see the image below, also see my post here
And A video I and my daughter put together showing the difference with ini settings I am using put together by Jetwash

Spoiler

 

Alright, so I've recorded some footage sharing live system resource usage starting at both New York Penn and London Victoria around ~7 a.m. I know these two routes and stations can't be compared directly for many factors, but I'd like to think it's the closest we have to a very busy central hub where most playable/AI services are traveling on these routes. (both have relatively packed timetables)

Note: for New York - Trenton, I have any DLC that I can disable, disabled. That's the Acela Express add-on, LIRR Route add-on, as well as the M3 LIRR add-ons ALL disabled. So only running with the stock that ships with the New York - Trenton DLC ONLY (ACS-64, Metroliner Cab Car, ALP, & NJT Cab Car), and as documented below, the problem of constant hitching/freezing still exists. Some of these freezes last multiple seconds. It's interesting to note though that during these long hitches/freezes, both the GPU/CPU cut out, not completely but most of their utilization drops, and even during times when neither are at or even near their maximum utilization, they still both cut out together when the hitches occur (whether it occur when either or both are up near 90-95% utilization, or closer to 50%).

Also, even still having half of my 4x16gb ddr4 3600 MHz RAM removed (operating with 32 GB at the moment), that total amount still isn't being utilized, so as cActUsjUiCe mentioned earlier, I truly believe system RAM is a non-factor here.

I did notice a few microstutters on London Commuter, which from my years of gameplay in Train Sim World is relatively normal. I'm used to this sort of thing every 30 seconds or so (very much aware this is likely a combination of loading map chunks and/or compiling shaders).

The difference is very clear with New York - Trenton though as expressed in the clip. Please share your thoughts and insight if there is anything you noticed that I didn't point out. Also, thanks to everyone playing around and testing things in their own games.

Final Note: Running with the -USEALLAVAILABLECORES -THREADS 16 -DX12 -HIGH startup command in steam properties for both clips in this video and my engine.ini file unmodified from how the game ships. As far as active layers for the London Commuter clip, I own and have enabled all of the following (GWE, ECW, & SEHS).

I understand the comparison between routes, stations, and locos is apples to oranges but I want to show that this issue of hitching isn't occurring anywhere else but on NYT alone. Even on the reduced timetable, hitching/freezing is occurring in TSW4 when it once did NOT in TSW3.


the video is still processing so the quality will likely improve over the next hour or so

Edit: I kept the bell and wipers on so it's easier to notice when this is occurring and also forgot to mention the FPS overlay which I forgot to enable until I was in the tunnels leaving NYP. The frame rate is great. Steady cap at 60 fps, but constantly drops out because of the stutters.

Spoiler: System Specs for this Video

i9-9900 3.5ghz (OC to 4.5ghz)
32 Gb DDR4 @ 3600mhz (running half of my total RAM)
Nvidia RTX 2070 8GB VRAM
1TB M.2 SSD

 

Just an fyi, when you quote your system specs the K in i9-9900K does matter, as the K version is a faster CPU than the one without it.

 

Thanks! I usually forgot to put that but I do in fact have the "k". It's not letting me currently edit it, but when it does I'll update it.

 

The 'K' simply means the CPU is unlocked for overclocking purposes. Non-'K' models are locked down and cannot be overclocked by the user.

 

That is interesting! You'd think the pauses meant something was slamming the CPU and/or GPU, not that the game's going briefly inactive. I wonder what could be causing that. Hopefully, the fact that this is weird will make it easier to find.

 

In my experience, the stutters generally happen when an AI train is in the same 'tile'....so I think the theory of the trains being bugged / unoptimised in some way holds some merit (the lack of passengers whereas trains being Full, the safety systems in them stuck on etc)

 

I also just realized the alerter beeping is likely the acela (at least that’s what i think). The other day i was in free roam with the F125 then decided to jump in and take over an acela at trenton and the alerter was going off every so often like normal as i was operating it, but the alerter fuse was set to cut out. when i changed to the external camera though, it was non-stop beeping. the only way to stop it was going back to the in-cab camera. i’m gonna try uninstalling the acela and see if the random beeping on all the trains stops.

 

Yeah that is what I noticed also...

 

Ive definately heard the beeping from a NJT Cab Car as well. It's completely random though, sometimes you don't hear it and other times every passing train will be beeping. It's hard to say if there is a correlation between this and the stuttering issue...but Im sure it's not helping matters

 

NYT is definitely a stutterfest with the full timetable. By far the worst I have ever seen. Using the reduced timetable did fix it for me though.

 

DTG Matt , DTG JD. Joethefish .So wanted to give my final feed back for the week. It has been a long week and to be honest has been a lot of fun. First I know we have mentioned but will mention again, Joe the timetable you have created for us is an epic timetable. We can’t thank you enough. Some of us have been waiting 9 months for this. I have spend more hours playing NYT this week than I have worked full time in two weeks.lol. This feedback is for both PC steam and Xbox X. I’ll be honest I was one of the lucky ones that haven’t experienced some of the issues that other had. Once I started hearing that other players were having issues with the new timetable my gears change to a beta tester and try to help solve this. On my Xbox X besides the game crashing on start up once in a while, was the best performance. I had very minimal stutter which is the norm for us. Honestly with reduced timetable and new timetable I was getting the same FPS. the last few hours I started to get the TSW4 crashes that many were experiencing during the week, so I tried offline. I’m actually glad I did since I was able to test the new timetable off line. What I found was the game ran even better with even less normal stuttering.
So for me beside the game crashes at startup I had no issues running the game with the new timetable. Besides hearing the alerter going off, All trains full of passengers but all stations besides Penn having no passengers.These two issues need to be investigated further.
Now for PC. I didn’t have the issues that others had. I had about twice as many stutters and game freezing on PC than on Xbox X. But was still very playable. I tried the reduce timetable and both had the same stutters and game freezing. To compare I redownloaded TSW3 on steam. I actually had less FPS here but no stutter. Notice passengers getting off and on at all stations. No aleters going off.. I went back on TSW4 and tried one more thing which was to cap my FPS at 90. it reduced the frequency of the stuttering and game freezing but they still occurred more than my Xbox X. One more thing that I did notice that happened on PC and not on Xbox X with NYT reduce and new timetable was every time you completed a task like stopping at the station and completed the boarding, the game would freeze momentarily.At the same time CPU and GPU would go to near zero. Also every time I experience a big pause,you would again see CPU and GPU near single digits . I hope this information helps and I will continue to give feedback on NYT.

 

It’s not though. I still have stutters on the reduced timetable. I still don’t have passengers on the platforms in the reduced timetable. I didn’t have either problem in TSW3. There’s something else going on here.

 

I think we'll just have to live with it. Same on TSC's LIRR - something really off with this route and stock. There's more complex routes that run at 200 FPS if I uncap the limit, LIRR going down to 30-40 at times. And not everybody has got a high-end rig.

They just left it as it is until the people went silent about it and the threads died off.

 

and that’s exactly why we don’t let that happen lol

 

Like your spirit man!

 

That and letting the modding community fix it, hey we don't have to pay them!
And in all honesty, the modding community does it better, why? they put their hearts into it with passion, because of and dare I say it for the love of it, in a way that is. Really the modding community should not have to come to fix what is broken or just not right, the modders as I see it should be more of adding new items, putting a little polish on things, and if need be fixing the little but useful things. Like a missed Sign or signal and like jetwash did put that little added touch with ini settings, as well as several others.
And I'm sure I'm already on the -oh he's just an ole geezer flapping his gums list
Yes I do very much like TSW2 & 3 And well 4 is still the jury is still out for me, but some things are good, and some are not.

And the way Northeast Corridor: New York - Trenton DLCs is now in TSW4, that is sloppy work, have yet to do more testing but in TSW3 is not even close to that bad.

 

i agree! i’ve never really personally had an issue with moving my stuff to a new game. the transition to 3 wasn’t bad in my own personal opinion, but this transition to 4 has been an absolute nightmare and now i know i’m done. probably not gonna even bother with the next one if things don’t improve and issues that were created aren’t fixed. I feel particularly bad for players that were waiting for fixes to routes from 2 that never came when 3 was released. forgotten and abandond. what a shame :/

also, if these issues with NY-T stuttering are deep into the works with passengers and individual locos/rail cars is that something modders can tackle? seems like a lot for them. i assume this won’t be an easy fix but I hope i’m wrong.

 

I just wanted to share some things I was looking at weekend in relation to FPS drops. I've noted that when passing the NYT cab cars on route my FPS can almost halve causing a hitch in play.

I'm running 2080ti and i9-10900k with 32gb.

I seem to find the older part of route misbehaves a little bit more. Below are a couple of graphs I took from MSI. Most of the time I average mid 50s to a locked 62FPS. The first graphic below (highlighted in green) shows when one of these passed me. I closed MSI then which caused the gap.



The second shows (around the dotted line) three FPS drops around it again.



Has anyone else noticed or tested similarly?

 

Oh wow! i’m gonna run this exact test sometime later today and see what my findings are for the different rail vehicles in the DLC. You mentioned you used MSI, is that the name of the program or is it called something else? The only program i’m familiar with is MSI afterburner but i only know that to be an overlocking/adjustment tool.

 

I'm sorry but all of the new routes in Tsw4 has some kind of stuttering going on. Even at stations moving the stick around is not smooth with hitches and sound drops every so often. If you have the camera on the outside of a train and you go under a tunnel it goes crazy and flips from where you are. The quality of this software is terrible it's not tested very well and rushed out. I have a high end pc and xbox series x both perform horrible.

 

And of course DTG are silent on this

 

Forgot to mention everything looks nuked