Enough Is Enough!!!

Never said that, but using data from only one platform doesn't represent a significant number.

 

It's only the same as all the polling companies. Take a sample of people and extrapolate the data as a representation of the whole community.

 

I love it how people really aren’t very good at interpreting data, especially the kind of incomplete data that comes from Steam charts. It’s also far too soon to see how TSW4 is working out on Steam. There hasn’t been a DLC release yet. And don’t be fooled by the anomaly that is that high peak at the release of TSW2. It does not fit the general trend of the graph as a whole. Don’t look at the highest peaks, that isn’t where the trends are shown. There may or may not have been a slight downward trend for TSW3 (on its own but not when added to TSW2 which still shows an upward trend in the total) but it’s not clear which way it goes (too little info on the longer term charts). TSW3 was also pronounced as a huge flop by those saying the same about TSW4 now but there is no evidence of a massive decline for TSW overall shown anywhere on the chart screenshots being shown here, not even a moderate decline. We can all reconvene for bad graph analysis around March 2024 when it will be much clearer to those who can interpret data which way TSW4 is heading. It’s far too soon at present.

 

The Steam data always coincided with the information from online players, there are games that I myself managed to verify by relying on the origin server, Combat Arms was a very played game and today it is just an abandoned game and the numbers always coincided; at peaks, this usually occurs at launches, many buy it and never play it again, others even ask for a refund because they didn't like it, an example of this is Microsoft Flight Simulator.

 

I don't think DTG cares much which version of TSW people are playing at this point. As someone pointed out, there are no new stand alone TSW4 dlc's yet.

When Preston - Ormskirk and subsequent releases are offered, there'll likely be plenty of new TSW4 pick- ups, either by itself or in a bundle. And there are still some TSW4 launch packs to come later this month.

After that, there are the Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's sales on Steam and maybe other platforms.

I don't think they're worried.

 

Well, considering the fact that not one single third party route has ever been offered as a standalone purchase I'm not too sure how many would be convinced to fork out a minimum of £60 to play it. Also being as how the above route was originally talked about in TSW3 I'd have hoped that the devs would have exercised a little common sense (you'll have to google what that bit means, DTG) and released it on both TSW3 and 4...After all, how hard can it be to remove a bit of fog from the weather options to make it backwards compatible?

 

Hear! Hear!

 

The whole point in releasing a new game is to leave the other one behind. They want people to buy their new product.
If you don’t buy the new product, then you get left behind and can’t play new dlc releases. That’s the way it should be. Most people seem happy with this concept though (sticking to TSW2/3) and not buying TSW4, so no biggy.

 

Want people to buy their new product but still want new players to buy older content to fully access all the features in the new stuff (COUGH Antelope Valley Freight)

 

No, the whole point of releasing a new game is to give reason to leave the older one behind.
I (and pretty much all the NASCAR community) continue to play Heat 5 because Ignition 21 is widely recognised as being a complete waste of money, but by your logic we're all totally wrong and should go ahead and waste our money on the new game so as not to get left behind. Oh, ok!

Note: Yes, I am aware that Ignition doesn't share the Heat name - but that's purely down to Motorsport Games (who own the Heat franchise) deciding to rebrand the game in order to label it with the year of it's release....and as another footnote, Motorsport Games also recognised the fact that Ignition was poorly received and decided to once again support Heat 5 by means of a *free* core update and a new set of liveries + drivers to bring it in line with the 2022 season.

So yeah, maybe we should all adapt to your logic by sending MSG an email, asking what the hell they're think they're playing at by continuing to support an old game not forcing us to move on! I'll bear that in mind.....not!

 

Reasons why I left TSW3 behind:

•Free Roam mode
•Spawning any train you want (scenario planner or service mode)
•Photo mode
•Route Editor
•Dualsense functionality
•Improved visual/graphic quality
•Improved rain effects

Just some of the reasons I adapt the supreme version (TSW4).

I don’t know much about the Heat franchise, but it’s not a very good comparison though to back up your argument. A racing game or sports game doesn’t have no where near the amount of content TSW has, nor does it impact you playing future content. Apart from a few dlc vehicles. FIFA is another example. Different/updated roasters each year, but small tweaks to animation and gameplay.
TSW you’re getting left behind whether you admit it or don’t care enough to upgrade to TSW4.
If you’re happy with TSW2/3, great. No one’s ridiculing for that. Just don’t expect DTG to support an older version of the game because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

 

Look, if we're going to start the comparison thing then Heat, Grid, Forza or whatever racing game you care to choose comes with a roster of 20+ locations, anything upto 600 vehicles, a full career and more importantly a near infinite amount of permutations as to the outcome of the event you choose to to compete in, in both single player and online multiplayer....all for less than £70
TSW4 has 3 default locations on which you will complete a bunch of scenarios and drive a handful of trains up and down (upto) 80 miles of track with pretty much the same outcome every single time....and if you want more than that you pay through the nose for the 'privilege' of adding to the level of immersion.

But I'm not talking about content comparisons, I'm talking about recognising the fact that, for various reasons, not everyone has moved forward into TSW4 and for that reason alone it makes good financial sense to continue supporting a previous product until such a time that most have found a justifiable reason to move on ....in exactly the same way they continue to support the near-obsolete gen 8 consoles.
You can't even argue that by doing this people will have no reason to upgrade because in your own words;

"•Free Roam mode
•Spawning any train you want (scenario planner or service mode)
•Photo mode
•Route Editor
•Dualsense functionality
•Improved visual/graphic quality
•Improved rain effects"

is already there to be exploited....but simply having those things at your disposal is at present NOT a valid reason to upgrade from TSW3. There are more pressing matters to be resolved beforehand - matters which you are more than welcome to read about within this thread.

Honestly though, I really don't care if JT have chosen to release a product (which, may I hasten to add, was always assumed to be a TSW3 addon) exclusively into TSW4 because if they want to sell it to a potentially smaller userbase and make less money for their efforts then that's entirely upto them.

 

How I love a joke... Guys, I'm already waiting for TSW5, it looks like it will be compiled with Unreal Engine 5, as TSW4 is obsolete due to being compiled with Unreal Engine 4.

 

And this is evidence where?

 

Racing games and TSW are two completely different games for two completely different markets so can't really be compared.

JT is also only selling their route for TSW4 because that is the new game like it or not. It would be foolish of them to make a version of their route for a game which is now obsolete.

 

Didn't you know? Oh no!

TSW5 official song will be this.

 

H'mm let's see:
Free roam/spawning trains - just seems a little pointless to me and as DTG omitted to include the promised consist editor still limited to the formations that can be spawned in.
Photo mode - another gimmick hanging on the edge of what is supposed to be a train driving sim.
Route editor - released in a partially functional manner with not even basic instructions on how most functions work. Any content you actually manage to make can't be cooked and therefore distributed.
Dualsense - n/a to PC KBM user.
Improved visuals - matter of perception but the ongoing imposition of adaptive eye, washed out daytime scenery and that ridiculous burst of light entering and leaving tunnels hardly an improvement in my book.
Rain effects - can't say I have noticed much difference.

 

Another bad comparison.
Designing a race track in a racing game and designing a route in train simulator are two different categories entirely. Pretty much every racing game use last years build and design and tweak it. Even the new Forza, apart from the few new race tracks they added. Designing a route takes a lot of research and planning. Do you understand how much time goes into making a route, how complex it is? Have you tried using pc editor? I have, it’s brutal.
When you say “3 default locations” like it’s a small thing. How many routes should DTG added in the base game then, 20?
QUOTE- TSW4 has 3 default locations on which you will complete a bunch of scenarios and drive a handful of trains up and down (upto) 80 miles of track with pretty much the same outcome every single time.-QUOTE Not to sound rude here, but I’m curious to know what makes a good scenario for you?
From my experience with the newest routes and scenarios, I’ve found some very entertaining and engaging. Yes, most are drive to point A, then back to point C and finish at B. It’s a train simulator though, they can’t exactly add a flying saucer and have your train be abducted by aliens.
Then you drive a route inside a huge space ship with neon lights and fairy dust replaced with rain. DTG don’t have EA’s budget unfortunately.

I personally think 8th gen should be removed. It’s obviously clear the old gen hardware can’t support the newest version of the game, even with all the downgrading does for 8th gen support.
It’s lose, lose situation though. They remove it and they probably lose around 20% of their fan base or they keep it and it will never be fully optimised properly. From what I’ve seen in the forums, Xbox One S/X seem to be most affected.

 

Other simulators have photo mode

 

The visual effects do need improving. SEHS still has that light in tunnels problem (haven't noticed it with others) for the past year. They aren't bad for the most part though.

I agree with the rain effects, I haven't really noticed them not being there, except when it's not raining of course.

 

Like I said, I really don't care what JT does with the Blackpool route - It's their creation, their choice, their loss, they can do as they see fit with it.
Something else you should also nip in the bud because it is getting a bit boring now: TSW3 most definitely is NOT "obsolete". DTG are still in the process of updating it so until they stop doing so (or they tell you that they can't be bothered to do so) then it is still a supported product.

 

They're only adding a small number of fixes before doing nothing else with it. Then TSW3 will be obsolete. The fact they've produced a newer game means they won't keep updating the old one for long.

 

Spawning a train anywhere is pointless? It’s a game changer for me. It’s made the whole experience for me more enjoyable. Yes, but Matt said the formations option are coming soon.
Photo Mode gimmick or not, makes for some great content with in the community. I for one like taking screenshots to post or to just save and have a wallpaper on my desktop.
Route Editor is still in the beta phase. It’s going to improve over time. I’m still in the “dummies handbook guide” phase still myself. Rome wasn’t build in a day.
Dualsense and vibration functionality has made the game feel slightly more immersive for me.
True, PC users are left out. Console users with rail driver and pc editor are left out too.
The visual quality in my opinion has improved. Not by a huge merging, say TSW2020 to TSW2 fidelity, but there is improvement. I personally like the lightening, but that’s subject to personal opinion. You can always play around with your tv or monitor settings though to find the perfect balance. Depends on what tv or monitor you have though. My LG C2 tv has a lot of different picture setting options, and looks incredible for gaming on with.
You haven’t noticed the 60fps rain effects on the train windows? It’s definitely better than what we had before.

 

Something I don't like is how Preston-Blackpool was hinted in the tsw3 roadmaps with pictures of its development posted, but then a massive plot twist happened and it was announced for tsw4 only. such a shame, since people seemed to be excited to see it when leaks & hints came out and now its being locked behind another separate version of tsw

 

You will buy TSW4 eventually Ewan. Think about the Blackpool to Preston route. The temptation will be too strong for you.

 

At least we're now in agreement that, currently, TSW3 is not obsolete after all, so, going forward you can remove that bit from future reasons as to why we're all utterly bonkers for not spending £40 on the 'new' game.

 

I never said it isn't obsolete as it is. It just happens to be receiving a few fixes before it becomes obsolete in is entirety.

I never said you were crazy not parting with money for TSW4. That's your choice. It is still a new game whether you like it or not.

 

I'm on the lookout for a vibrating mouse for you Vern

Edit: Bingo

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BB-Vibrating-Lightweight-Adjustable-Interchangeable-brown/dp/B086PDJNC1

 

I would suspect Forza has a much larger team making levels than TSW has making routes...

 

Its not even a route that I want to buy, i was just saying others liked it.
will probably do what others did with tsw3 and buy it on a large sale months after release

 

Yeah definitely the best time. Hopefully the Xmas sales are good this year. I’m waiting for the midland mainline and breman oldenberg to get a nice discount since these routes to me didn’t seem worth the asking price of £30. Plus they’re heavily bugged from the comments I’ve read, which is why I’ve avoided them.

 

In the case of Train Sim(ulator)s March sales usually tend to be better than winter or summer sales.

 

I'm confused why free roam is a game changer. Sure you can spawn trains, but you can't make actual timetable services. So if you were to spawn a class 385 on cathcart circle for example, you can't actually pick up or drop off any passengers. I wouldn't necessarily call it a game changer. Just more of a gimmick.

In terms of photo mode, not everyone wants to stop every 2 seconds and take pictures. It's a nice feature for those that like it, but it's not revolutionary in the slightest since so many other video games have had a photo mode for many years.

The visuals look the same to me from what I've seen. I haven't had much of an issue with the rain textures in the previous games so the improvements are very minor.

Volumetric Fog is a checkbox in unreal. It's nice but not revolutionary.

The editor being in beta shouldn't be excused for some of the issues such as not being able to share content for instance. Sure it will get improved, but you would think DTG would get the basic functions working.

The fact that the consist editor isn't in game is not acceptable. It is a core function of the game and the fact that a core function isn't in the game at launch wouldn't go down well with other game companies. They would be rightly criticized for that.

The leap from tsw3 to tsw4 isn't huge at all. It's improvements to existing features at best with some of those features causing problems like the livery designer 2.0 messing up existing liveries or the scenario planner 2.0 still being limited in terms of pathing. Just feels like tsw4 is in a beta and players are essentially paid beta testers. The new scoring system is riddled with problems as well

On a more general note, there is nothing wrong with liking the game, but I and clearly others don't see much that is there. TSW4 has a mixed review on steam with detailed posts saying why they wouldn't recommend and some that say why they would. A similar reception is here on the forums. Not everyone sees much in this product. Others do and that is fine. Just gonna have to accept that people are gonna have a difference of opinion.

 

Plus the "Say-Do" gap with DTG tends to be more of a chasm..

 

Like in TSC - press 8, press pause, find a good place for the camera, set a zoom (optionally change the contrast/brightness/lighting/effects/dof in settings) and take a picture - only the roll rotation of camera is missing.

 

Every point you made is your own personal opinion and that’s fine. Some of us like the new game, some of don’t that’s no problem.
Personally I don’t use free roam. I find scenario planner 2.0 and spawning trains in service mode more interesting, as it has passengers duties on both. Also scenario planner 2.0 is great since you can flood the route with A.I services, so it really populates the route.
Spawning any train on any route with the full working timetable that can affect your journey a.k.a red signals, to me is the most interesting aspect. Maybe not revolutionary, but as far as I know this can’t be done on any other train sims. That to me is the real game changer and is why I’m enjoying the game so much. Much more than previous entries of TSW.

 

The liveries being broken due to the livery designer 2.0 on older content isn’t an opinion. It's an issue players have experienced.

You can only add 19 ai services in total in scenario planner 2.0 plus the player train. That's not many and was the same number in tsw2-3. Only real difference is that you can change the weather, do back and forth services and have trains go into a portal.

You can't create a timetable service by spawning a train on a route in the timetable mode. You can set a path to where you want the train to go, but you can't pick up or drop off passengers nor can you set departure/arrival times

 

Just discovered they messed with a route that was perfectly alright - Rhein-Ruhr Osten. Catenary in the middle of the tracks in places now.

Not only are most bug reports ignored - but they even break more stuff. Is there a saboteur at DTG?!?

Editor - beta, can't export your work into the game
FreeRoam - many locos not working
Scenario Planner 2 - completely bugged
Livery Designer - CC liveries broken
Volumetric Fog - actually works (can't believe it!!)
old content - broken (Bakerloo Tunnel Rain, 442 and HST wiper issues), more to discover?
Console ports - crashing (please outsource console porting to real experts)
Scoring System - total joke
Loading times - massively increased
Modding - partially impossible now
External camera - broken
Photo mode - overdue, working
Track monitor - toggle not working
Steam locos - still Arcade, if you've ever driven a Smokebox or Bossman Games steamer in TSC, you'll know
-------------------------------------------------
Summary: They managed to tick the checkbox for Fog. Couldn't have gone wrong could it?

Imho TSW4 is the worst version ever, and I've played them all.

What the hell is going on at DTG? How long will the customers bear with them? Focus Entertainment, step in and take action - what happens at Chatham's Chaos HQ is not alright and will impact revenues, and this should make you worry. With the right persons in charge, this game could be and could sell much better, don't you agree, Focus?

 

I’ve never had that bug myself (bugged liveries) so I can’t comment on that. Not saying it’s not true though.
Yes, Scenario planner I create my route and add A.I trains. Stopping and picking up passengers you can do on there, and not timetable mode. I know that, played it enough now I’m not a PC player though, so this is a new feature for me and everyone else who plays on console.

 

Well one positive from TSW4 - Boston Sprinter which was causing TSW3 to crash every time, now works again. Just forgot how dreary all those Journey mode picks are set in the heart of winter/pitch black/blowing a blizzard.

 

According to some online reviews of TSW4, it is scoring high, the lowest being 6/10.

I wonder if this trend will continue or if there will be a decline at some point.

 

It depends what they’re reviewing.

If it’s TSW4 as a standalone, one-off purchase then it’s an alright game probably in the 7.5-8.5 range. However, if you are reviewing it as part of a franchise (and not a franchise like FIFA which is a standalone game each year) where many of the players have paid for the same feature set time and time again, and where a significant amount of the content available for the game is just straight-up broken, missing features or only compatible in the loosest sense of the word then it begins to look a very different proposition IMHO.

Also, 60% is not what I would call a ‘high’ score in any sense of the word.

 

The reviews I think are just for the base game, not the franchise. I only came across them by chance, but it shows that the game CAN be good, there's just a few issues that need sorting out.

 

reviews on steam are still only at 67%. quite a few of the serious positive reviews people reacted with the jester with the top 3 most helpful reviews in the past week being negative.

 

Weirdly enough, on Steam, you see, I would even say suspicious, weird overly positive or nothing-saying positive reviews with half of them marked as "received for free" on Steam, with their profiles all being completely privated or mostly privated. This is can be also seen on TSW DLCs. Even weirder is that some of them got removed.

Example, a guy named "Jack":

 

A jester on a fact based review don't mean nothing. Got mine too. Thanks for the points

 

I can promise you that isn't me, I don't use Steam.

 

Let's not forget Scenario Planner 2.0 and LD 2.0 were supposed to come soon after TSW2 release, originally prior to Winter 2020. The "upgrades" are what was supposed to be there to begin with, both tools were extremely lacking, that's why they promised a swift upgrade for both. Two paywalls and three years later only a fraction of the originally promised stuff made it in.

 

So how has the glossy sales push for the launch of TSW4 worked out ?

Yikes!! No surprises there. There seems to be a lot of gifted prophets on here who have predicted the ongoing chaos with uncanny accuracy,

Emphasis added

What was the point? Do you even need to ask??



Any resemblance to actual DTG community managers living or dead is purely coincidental.

 

The incredible prophetic powers of.... Remembering previous releases.