Enough Is Enough!!!

That's why I said on paper. Which basically means it doesn't work well in reality.

I do understand that it can be hard to get accurate sounds, but surely it pays to at least make an effort and try? One would think so.

 

What? Unless you go for 3rd party, like AP, TSC sounds are all over the place and definitely much worse than in TSW. DTG has never been stellar with sounds.

 

Well the general sound clarity just seems better. Obviously there are duds and as you say the third party stuff tends to be very good but DTG still seem to have lost their way with audio in TSW, the fact we now get excuses such as the poorly looped and over quiet Class 700 sounds.

 

The poorly looped and quiet Class 700 is miles ahead of "Foreman Dan Hernandez"...

I fail to remember any first party loco in TSC that would sound as good, as i.e. the Vectron, or the DB101... Most of locos in TSC are recycled sounds over and over again.

 

Silly question maybe, but IF TSW4 is the SAME core as TSW3, then HOW can some "legacy" content be automatically broken or malfunctioning on TSW4? Raining inside tunnels on Bakerloo and Southeastern High Speed, UE crashes on Spirit of Steam, and maybe other Routes as well, and maybe there is a more complete list somewhere. To make a "legacy" Route "TSW4-compatible" surely required no more than a file in the Route, or in the core that recognizes and unlocks the Route for TSW4 - so how do these things happen?

 

Well if you're looking at other sims in general, not just train sims, ats and ets2 also suffers from poor sound even with sound recording sessions on real trucks even though scs is known to be a very good developer

 

No. People say the sounds are poor, but most of them have never driven a truck. The ETS2 sounds are approved by the truck manufacturers. Cabs are quiet nowadays, many don't understand that.

 

If you listen pre fmod and post, you'll see differences in sound and there's also the sound modders. The engine sounds are very abrupt if you listen to it which is where the players are saying the sounds are poor

 

I think sound is very subjective. I've been riding an Actros MP4 IRL and I think the sounds are spot on. Also, I'm using a good sound system with a subwoofer. I'm happy with the ETS/ATS sounds.

 

Sound is subjective and different people hear different things, even listening to the same natural sound or sound file; different frequencies, volumes, ambient sounds, etc. The only issue I've ever had with sound in the game is when it cuts out, as in the Bakerloo line way back when. And you are correct, a sub is crucial to enjoy this game; the low end is done very well.

 

Oh I agree about ETS2. When they switched to FMod the default truck sounds deteriorated into an appalling state, tinny and no variation between either idle or full revs. Only rescued by using mods.

 

For what it’s worth, my two cents;

- DTG’s sounds in TSC were generally pretty terrible. Third party sounds were generally excellent, although that wasn’t always the case. A lot of JT’s rolling stock left a fair bit to be desired on that front too. Remember, AP started out providing sound packs to improve the dire stock sounds provided by DTG which, let’s face it, is no surprise if DTG’s whole aim was an ‘authentic interpretation’ rather than ‘accurate’

- DTG’s sounds in TSW are generally a lot better than their TSC efforts (in fact, that applies to the rolling stock in general which is streets ahead to be fair). The odd unit or loco is very good but again the lack of consistency that blights the game rears its ugly head. As I’ve never driven an Azuma I’d have said it’s ok. Not as good as AP’s (which uses the same recordings don’t forget) but not bad. What is bad is the mixing, and really there can’t be any excuse for the 801 having released as it did. It was clearly, very obviously, poorly balanced. It really bugs me that they added tunnel occlusion to the ECML route then nerfed it with the patch because they made the running sounds of the 801 much louder without altering the occlusion to take account of it. It’s really hard to conclude that that is caused by anything other than carelessness.

Sounds and visuals are as important in a simulator as anything else & DTG would do well to remember that. To be fair to DTG, there is a thread on this forum that suggests they at least understand that. It still needs saying that all the best recordings mean nothing if the mixing and implementation in the game isn’t right.

 

Part of the problem is the limited amount of sound channels in TSW compared to TS. As far as I remember (although I may have got it wrong so do correct me) TSW has 8 sound channels and TS has 64, or something to that effect. Either way TS has a lot more flexibility and you can do more with the sounds you record, which is partly why every single time DTG have tried to use AP sounds in TSW they sound noticeably worse than in TS. Obviously it doesn't explain everything - the ICE 3 sounds (which DTG didn't make) are very good, and there are other trains, mostly those TSG had input in that sound good too. However, let's look at each instance of those AP sounds as I mentioned:

• Electrostar sounds: Very good, but have a strange 'warp' sound which does not exist on the real train, nor on the AP Electrostar packs. That said, hats off to DTG for adding the differences between the 377 and 387 sound-wise, as the AP EPs don't (or didn't) do this.
• PEP sounds: These are a bit quiet but mostly okay, except for the blatant lack of effort put into the Southern 313 not just in the sounds.
• IET sounds: Badly mixed.
• Class 150: Seemingly only the idle sound was used and then manipulated by Rivet, which is utterly hopeless.
• Class 700: Mostly okay from my experience, but again may be a bit quiet.

There may be more TSW trains with AP sounds but I am not aware of them.

 

Class 66, class 465, cummins 158, vp185 hst

 

The engine is just the engine, nothing more. The core game has been updated and recompiled, and the DLCs are also recompiled. That's why you have to redownload them rather than just copying the files over. The DLCs labeled compatible still have different versions for the different game versions. Compatible just means that the DLC has versions for both games, not that the same DLC files will work across games.

 

So you are saying the new TSW4 bugs are appearing somehow as a result of this updating and recompiling of core game and/or DLCs? And which?

 

Legacy content broke in TSW4 for the same reason they sometimes broke on their own TSW version as well.

I mean think of Sherman Hill for example. It released with a working in-cab signalling, which quicky broke after the first patch and never has been fixed since.

And are you really trying to justify this cash grab re-release by saying that old content is broken in it? Weird logic, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.

But under a proper development studio this would have been a simple patch, without braking any old content. But it's DTG, so you have to pay and get your content broken.

 

That's the worst thing about TSW, breaking stuff that once worked. Constantly.

 

Well, Matt did say that transferring legacy content into TSW4 was a relatively simple process because updated features aren't present in these routes and therefore will be largely unaffected by any changes to preexisting stuff...and I suspect that the only reason for having to download everything again is to renew/update the digital licence for content you own. All of which strongly suggest that the core engine is exactly the same as that of TSW3 - and once again questions the whole point of TSW4.

Besides, rain (as well as wheel slippage effects caused by rain/snow) in tunnels is not an unusual occurrence in TSW2, so if it is repeating itself in the 'new' game then it's simply one of those many quirks that never got addressed.

 

Another thing you can often spot in sequels that dates when a build was forked is stuff like the odd bugs here and there that were fixed in a patch for the first game but then show up again in the sequel. It sometimes affects other games by the same studio too, like Baldur's Gate 3 having the odd glitch here and there that was patched out of Divinity: Original Sin 2

One of the messiest examples on that front of how bad it can get is the parallel development on Dragon Age: Inquisition and Mass Effect: Andromeda where the teams had to build the necessary systems to support an RPG experience in Frostbite, an engine primarily built for first-person shooters, from scratch, but this led to loads of duplicated but incompatible work which went on to be a pain for them once they finally were smart enough to assign some of the Inquisition team to assist with Andromeda, bringing their experience of doing it.

 

Nah, I'm not trying to justify anything. I didn't think initially I was going to purchase it, but I did only for the ECML and Scotsman, and the forlorn hope that my older content was going to work on it too. At the moment that content works better on TSW3 (for its faults). I was only wondering why new bugs are introduced (or re-surface) in "older" or as they call it, "legacy" content.

 

Meanwhile..

 

Bring it on!

 

Cant wait!! 21-11-2023

 

In celebration of bugs that are never solved in the TSW series.

 

It’s that old saying of “you take one step forwards and two steps backwards”. In this case it’s one bug gets “fixed” and 6 new ones suddenly appear.

 

Updated graphics engine!

 

Well, I will probably wait until the 2nd part of the update before finally deciding to get it anyway, despite all the bells & whistles they add, because what I was looking for the most isn't included in the 1st part yet (like SP saves, or anything more listed for SP)... It's been already in my cart for 6 times this year, during every of their discounts smaller or bigger.

As for TSW, I'll probably be back from hiatus to TSW3 this weekend, as I still keep Peak Forest route in the cart with a couple more of videos from it scheduled to watch before I press the "purchase" button (yet before the sale will end).

 

Absolutely, and there's zero reasons why you cant enjoy them both! As an aside, that's why I do tend to get puzzled and a little dismissive of those who get defensive of 'their game' or aggressive in attacking those that advocate some other product. It comes across as a little insecure between you, me and the fence post.. if the place those people are at is that amazing, it needs no defending. I'd prefer such people redirect their energy at any improvements, no matter how small, rather than defending the status quo and possibly unfulfilled potential.
Regarding single player, I used to think I'd never enjoy multiplayer, but I gave it a go and its really really well implemented in SimRail. Ive just spent a very pleasant hour managing a signal box while chatting with the chap running the next one, then took a train for a run along a section of line for a change of scene and pace. I really recommend you give it a go once you feel you have a grasp on things.

 

I've played Simrail a couple of times and it's pretty fun. But I'm honestly just waiting for the Single Player timetable mode to really dig my teeth in. Just don't have any interest playing with people most of the time.

 

If I feel like that, I just choose one of the unpopulated servers. EU3 is pretty good for that and is where I go to learn a new signal box or let the ai drive while I learn signs etc. Its a good workaround tbh. That specific server is unmonitored and restarts every 4 hours so any errors are no biggie. That way you get stacks of ai traffic and if its a case of really trying out something radical then thats when I dive into single player.
Just a suggestion though.
Edit and PS-If you ever want any pointers or help, especially with the non computerised boards in the signal boxes, just give me a shout. Happy to help.

 

Quite right, and if I ever was accused of too vehemently defending "the game," it would be TSW2! (Which was the pinnacle of the game, and not the you-know-what-show we have seen since.)

 

Princess - I'm writing about your line on lighting at the bottom of your posts. Have you tried anything in TSW4? I just ran Nahverkehr-Dresden on TSW4 and compared with same timetable, same settings in TSW3 and I found the "4" version to be streaky, flickery, stuttery, too bright, etc. This is after the patches this week as well.

 

"too bright" is the biggest issue. I tried SOS last night for the first time ever in TSW3 and gawd, it looks absolutely horrible in "clear" conditions. Everything is over-bright and washed out - and with those super-chunky short draw distance shadows between the rails as well as poor overall shadow draw distances and incredibly bland scenery it really was an instantly forgettable experience.
I obviously can't say if it's better or worse in TSW4, but if what I saw in SOS is 'going forward' levels of improvement to lighting then it is a bit of a worry that DTG actually think progression has been made.

 

Yes, Spirit of Steam is appalling in sunny conditions, without some engine.ini settings to mitigate that. I wouldn't know on TSW4, because I did two services and started getting UE crashes every time (reported in Troubleshooting category), so went back to it on TSW3 as usual, where it works.

 

Let's see how this ages: TSW3 released 13 full Routes (counting Holiday Express); and other loco packs, railtour, etc for a total of 19 DLC items. How does everyone think TSW4 releases will compare?

 

I'll say around 10 DLCs altogether, mostly new routes with one new or reused train.

 

41 pages and around 2000 comments, keep it going

 

Well, I'm sensing 'quantity over quality' vibes with TSW4 because they already have 15 misc (1st and 3rd party) addons listed on the roadmap so that makes it a preliminary 18 if you include the three base routes.

 

I'm just going to say that I was kind of hoping they'd go for quality, seems like that's not going to be the case.

 

Im hoping there will be some third parties similar to JT who will break that cycle but we'll see.

 

That's always the hope but I have very fond memories of how Skyhook Games led everyone up the garden path with with their promises of greatness so, good as it may well look, it might be best to see how well the JT route fares when a working version is released.

Hold the back page though because about an hour ago I was given a couple of TSW4 keys (one of which doesn't work so it could be for a different platform) from a good friend who has now been promoted to a very good friend, so it looks like I'm going to be in the "gang" after all. Hmm, on second thoughts not sure if that's a good or bad thing..so I'll hold off on her friend status for the time being .

[edit] I've had the ok to do this so here's the non-working key.
3PCPK-9WY4C-DH3ZZ-PP4WF-FVFVZ
It might well be for a different platform or she may have written it down wrong (a "Z" being a "2" etc etc) so feel free to try it on PS5/PC or twiddle with the permutations. Oh, I've also been told it may* be a key for Truck Driver AD so that's a right old booby prize for someone

 

You know we can !

 

I'm hoping Union Workshop's route will be good once it's released. That's when I plan to get the next edition, whether it will be TSW4 or TSW5.

Otherwise, at this point only something like another TSW Humble Bundle, or a new route outside of the 3 countries might convince me to get it. I'm still missing around 70% of the DLCs released for TSW3 and 2 DLCs for TSW2, so I have the possibility to expand the collection without "upgrading", like I only got Peak Forest just 2 hours ago.

 

I see the "new update" didn't resolve the crashes.

Still getting a crash on Xbox on ECML near Doncaster, and they still haven't resolved the issue with SEHS I told them about six months ago.

It's really getting on my nerves now.

 

Ive honestly reached the point where even if it was free Id pass unless it was a specific route or traction unit I was after. Thats actually really depressing and shows how much DTG need to change direction, for me at least.

 

Makes you wonder if DTG has actually taken note of anything in the last 2,000+ comments and 41 pages…

Whatever method makes them the most money the fastest seems to be the motive…

 

I don't think they've listened.

 

Erm, I gave TSW4 a little time last night and was really looking forward to agreeing how terrible it was and how everyone was absolutely correct in saying this game shouldn't exist...but sadly I can't do that. Not because it's wonderfully fantastic but simply because I can't get the game to work. After a long (long) loading session the game either CTD's just before the 'Dovetail Games' logo or crashes as soon as I try to get the Azuma moving on ECML, so all in all a very, very disappointing start. On the bright side though I got an absolute stack of achievements once I transferred my profile over!
I think I'll stick with TSW3 for the time being because it's a lot of gigglybytes having both games installed.

 

I see dtg broke their game again with an update. Lol, I'm not even suprised or mad anymore