I think this is really disappointing, it feels so much better doing an end to end route, Arosa Line was end to end with loco runarounds at each end, which added a lot to my enjoyment of the route. The devs of the Blackpool route mentioned that they originally planned to do just Blackpool to Preston but were told it wasn't long enough so added the section to Ormskirk, why are Rivet then leaving us short here?
Jasper_Rivet - Many of us are still waiting for your answer on this one, [Removed - Alex: Inappropriate]
Sorry this discussion is not fair anymore to driven this over the top... RVG does not have to reply with this manner. This is going nasty now to force this. Respect and wait normaly
What?? Was that for a comparison? Blackpool Preston is 20min drive... Ospizio to Tirano 1,5hr so whats wrong there?! And Blackpool Ormskirk is a flat land route and Bernina with large scale hills so thats ridiculous
Don't worry, with Rivet not answering any questions, they haven't answered any question either so far ...
It's Rivet. It's a relatively small studio, and this is a very complex (scenery-wise, nevermind rolling stock) route to make. Give it a chance..
Better you look how much work it will cost! And this route has stunning views and beautiful buildings and unic landmarks they need all to create so it cost al lot more than any other route.
Yeah thats correct! If you see the improvement of the surrounding that is absolutely a big progress and we can always hope for more but in the end is the Studio that make the decision what they create and not the buyer.
I didn't say I wouldn't give it a chance, I said I was disappointed they aren't doing the full route when the 5 person team that made Blackpool extended their original plans.
Let's assume an expansion would appear. It could well be possible that buying both parts individually would end up costing more than if the track had been released as a whole - even for a higher price. Admittedly, I don't know what exactly would have to be adjusted if an expansion was made. But I could imagine that, for example, the timetables would also have to be adjusted. In any case, something like this definitely takes extra work to adapt the first part to the second and needs more incoming money. (some movies for example was filmed at once instead of separate, because it has needed more time and money. Whether this is a suitable comparison to simulation games remains to be seen.) Be that as it may, in the end you pay more or less the same amount no matter what. The question for the publisher is: - would more people buy half the route than the whole route for more money? - or would more people prefer to buy the entire route for more than half the route for less? As a consumer, I ask myself the question: why should I buy half a route? Of such a iconic route as the Bernina? OK, - if no second part comes out, I'll save myself the money of a second add-on, but I'll still only have half the route. Or do I invest more and prefer to have a complete route? It might be different if the scenery of this upcoming part will be a number 1. But comparing to the pictures and other routes we´ve seen in TSW by Rivet, DTG and other until today, even with newer Vorarlberg, I dont´see that. After years still not the big diversity in assets. Too much looks at the end to generic. It might be different too if we would knew for SURE that the rest would also appear... but we don't know
May i ask to get over it and finish this discussion?! Its not happen and Rivet will not extend the route. If you not happy with it... Dont buy it is my advice
lol, I got over it the moment I made my first post, you're the one desperately trying to defend Rivet by claiming you can do 48 miles in 20 minutes in a Pacer ;o)
You thinking is way off.... Its way more simple... What time do i have, whats the budget and what is the part of the route that we can create with the first parts that i already written.....
No you read it wrong... I talking about Preston Blackpool before the make the choice of extend it intern... And that was a very good choice. 20/25min is indeed a little underestimated.
for only about 12 miles it will get my support to extend, seems quite off not to do the route if it’s only that short off. I definitely don’t think anyone would be up for that 12miles later either so it would close that section off for good if any type of extensions don’t come about. you may be thinking on the DTG German route, what will be £24.99, no rivet price has been released from what I’ve seen. standard is £30, £2 per mile is quite cheap ish edit: granted cheap can become expensive at that price like 40miles suddenly becomes £80, maybe im thinking more cheap in the sense of extending rather than first product or wrong entirely But it’s also a false number either way, locos average at £13 ish, meaning a left over of £12 at £25 or £17 at £30 for route. but then there’s everyone’s favourite government… will take 20%, then the stores stake of the sales. yes you won’t care much for the stores take as a player, but any dlc you buy you pay the 20% to government. (England only, other states/nations may vary)
Jeez what the heck is this for a bizarre comparison.... Im out...... If you have no clue what written here that you all talking about a taxi service LMAO
No i see that but its really funny how this is written in general! No hate to you but more how off this discussion is now! If you have no clue you never understanding what you written and thinking of a taxi price For Rivet in general is the lenght not relatet to miles prices or something like that. its not like now whe have 2 euro for each kilometer whe have to extend due to the price
I see, I thought my replies were sooner tbh, got the time mixed up, or well still relevant to thread. I’ll delete of that other reply as it is no longer needed keep it a little still on topic I haven’t actually read to much directly above tbh.
No problem! If i can make a choice for the whole route than i sey YES for sure but i understand that brings so much more time and if i'm fair how long ago has RVG released the last route? So thats way back now that means that there is no full income for months now! And yes i know there are some trainpacks but that is not the same as a route price like 35,99!
guess it could either way, just seems quite strange to not do it for 12 miles, but if they think no then it will stay as current. suppose it could test if more ambition or keep to plan is the path they may want to go down.
Haha, another ultra short route by Rivet. Good game guys. I had pleasure with their TSC content but despite good looking mountains this is nonsense. Still will not buy TSW4 with such DLCs in préparation
For TSC is the route lenght the same? I mean it is 2 seperate routes but if you count its 1 route St Moritz Potschiavo and the second from Potschiavo Tirano so this is not what you tell in the whole story... Later it is combined thats correct! Correct me if im wrong please!
I don't think it'd be impossible, we already have the stadler, the 185 and the vectron. So we'd just have to add a new passenger rolling stock.
Why do some people seem to act like Rivet is a charity? Nobody here has to give it a chance and I don't see the point in defending them so much. Also, them being a small studio is not an excuse. Smaller studios in tsc have made longer routes and Just Trains is making a 48 mile route
You can't compare tsc editing to tsw editing. 2 completely different engines where one is more complex than the other
The Just Trains route is 48 miles. That is a tsw route. Again, just because they are a small studio doesn't make it an excuse.
And the ECML would be like a 6 hour drive if you drove it at 40 miles an hour. Just cause the train is going slow on a short route, doesn't somehow make the content more worthwhile for the price. You realize the Lidar feature in the editor does the hills and mountains right? They aren't sculpted by hand. DTGs Voralberg route had tons of mountains, and still managed a respectable length.
So? Sure, TSW routes are more detailed and require more work, but TSW editor also lets you do much more and makes many things easier (like scenery auto generation, improved tools, etc). And on top of all, TSW add-ons are also higher price. TSW is supposed to be the next step in train simulator, so we shouldn't be stuck comparing it to TSC and saying "oh it's much harder to develop in TSW, give them a break". Game development is more time and resources nowdays in general than in the past - does that mean I should give every developer a pass? No. Again, what we see from the screenshots so far, it looks to be a great route. But ending it half-way will be a big negative for a route, so while I find it unlikely that it will happen, I also think Rivet should reconsider, delay the release and instead finish the route properly. They would have the potential to be a great TSW dev team - so why do they always have to settle for mediocre releases? With more time, they could do some really great add-ons!
If you have any clue how the moddeling works in UE youre comment isnt bring anything! In average it will be the same job but in different areas in this case!
What do you expect with this point? I have already written RVG will not change it so you can stop to bring this argument over and over it will ends in Sand....
I'm well aware of what Modeling involves and how it works in UE thanks, I have Blender and substance painter installed on my system for a reason. You're the person saying how much work the scenery is, this route is no harder than any other route such as Vorarlberg or Antelope Valley. The hard part of it which is the mountains are 95% done by the Lidar data. The rest of it is detailing them, track laying, road laying and placing buildings, which is the same as with any route.
Yeah fine if you so confidence that you exactly know how it works than is the whole problem fixed Fawx will extend the route until St Moritz... When can we expect this part? 6 months should be good possible if I read you text well use Lidar textures and laying track... And the best ho knows how blender works.... That's nice to hear!
When I heard the Bernina Express was coming to TSW4 I was very excited. When I heard Rivet were designing it I was disappointed, when I found that they were only doing a short version I was disgusted. The Bernina runs from Chur via St. Moritz to Tirano. Producing a route like this would have been a wonderful addition to the game and if Rivet cannot be bothered to do it properly, then they should do a different route and leave Bernina to a professional route developer.
What are you even on about? You're literally one of those "If you want a better job, do it yourself". Rivet are CHARING MONEY for this. They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts or charity. It is a business, they are asking us for money. As customers we are allowed to voice displeasure at what we perceive as inadequate products.
About 12 miles to St Moritz isn’t on the impossible scale or extremely difficult scale to continue and definitely isn’t unreasonable, I haven’t a clue about chur, Swiss geography is not in my knowledge. Wouldn’t make a difference if any other forum member had total experience with unreal, if they don’t work for rivet they can’t exactly do things to someone else’s property. i have zero experience with the unreal or the editor, I’d certainly have a look at some bugs if could though.
Do DTG not use the editor to extend or build? I’m not aware they use anything else for that. extend before finishing is just finishing the route at a longer distance of course in terms of unreleased routes but yea I have zero clue with it so no idea on most stuff with it edit: I see my mistake now it’s unreal not the editor
Once the route is finished and cooked, its difficult to extend. Only the original creator can extend it, and even then it's a pain. DTG basically remade SEHS with their extension, it wasn't just adding a small bit on.
For everyone saying the route is long- it isn’t. The straight line distance between St Moritz and Tirano is just under 40km, with 60km of route chainage. The length is inflated by the constant switchbacks, spirals and indirect curves- but the amount of scenery is far less than a dead straight 60km line. The odd choice of terminus suggests an external pressure was placed on this route and thus it had to be rushed to the point of cutting it back.
Well we don’t know how far on the project is but I would assume all developers keep a backup of the final uncooked version otherwise how could they apply post release patches and fixes? So it follows it should be possible to extend from that version to give the full length of this UNESCO World Heritage Railway. I do firmly believe this is one instance where, unlike our pleas for PFR to run through to Derby, the developer should listen to what people are saying, realise that 2/3 of the route is not what people want and postpone the release to work on the remainder of the line. Fully expect that view to get censored by DTG moderators as happened in an earlier post where they are obviously closing ranks with their Rivet associates to deflect criticism of terminating the route short. And still no official response from Rivet either.
Thats exactly the point! Its not to judge on the length but at the complexity of this route where the build finding its complexity to create.
It surprises me how many people seem to think they know better what's feasible for a commercial company like Rivet than Rivet themselves. I think Rivet has more experience with running a commercial company than most of the complainers here. If you think you can do better, please do, the editor is out and having more third parties is always a good thing.
You mean the editor that literally can't cook content for the game? Good joke, my man. And I assume Rivet has such bad reputation in TSW because they know what they are doing, right? lol I mean, that sounds mean, but they do keep making very bad decisions. With a bit more care and less rush, they could do much better.
The public editor is still in not much of a fit state to do anything with. Still lacks documentation, issues with sourcing terrain textures and can’t finalise or cook anything to release. Commercial companies (in reality probably someone WFH in their study) have far more experience and overcome the learning curve they should be able to knock out a 38 mile route with their eyes closed. People really shouldn’t be making excuses for Rivet at this stage. They decided to do this route and presumably understood the challenges it represented. In terms of length it is far less than most recent DLC releases including their own Edinburgh to Glasgow. And to repeat the earlier point, the convoluted nature of this route actually means rather less than 38 linear miles, or in the case of the sawn off offering 26 linear miles to place scenery. More like 20 miles or for the full route as the crow flies 30 miles, with their experience and resources should not be a problem. Much of the scenery between Pontresina and Ospizio is open moorland or Forest with rough pasture in the valley. Well it looks like Rivet are remaining resolute on the matter and the usual keyboard warriors are springing to their defence so I will be resolute not to buy this until it is at least 60% off in a sale. In the meantime I’ll enjoy taking the BEX from Thusis through to Tirano and back in TSC.
