Enough Is Enough!!!

We're very nearly at the point where more people are playing TSW3 than 4.

Everything is fine...

 

I’ve no doubt whatsoever that when Blackpool releases that will change. It doesn’t excuse the situation as it is now though and it should be a salutary lesson for DTG…people want quality and attention to detail, not fire and forget DLC that are just not hitting the quality heights consistently enough. If JT can get it relatively bug free I hope it really sells, and fires a shot across DTG, Rivet and Skyhook’s bows. All 3 of those devs can produce quality content but for whatever reason their content isn’t consistently hitting those heights. The reason this buzz exists around Blackpool is because JT are now known for quality and relentless attention to detail. Can DTG not see this what people want?

I mentioned it above but to re-iterate the point, ECML has a massive, glaring bug which ruins its gameplay. It should have been the first thing to be patched (before the 801 sounds) yet here we are what, 7 weeks after release, and nothing. I found myself ignoring double yellows on other routes as it had become the ‘norm’ playing ECML. How it was ever released like that blows my mind to start with, but signalling is a fundamental element of a train sim. FFS get it patched and fix it. It’s also ludicrous that yet again we’re relying on a mod to fix the PZB lights on Voralberg. It takes seconds to fix, so why hasn’t it been done officially?

The DTG hype train appears to already have turned its head firmly forward and the TSW4 launch routes already feel like they’ve gone the way of all the others. The hype train means the ‘blah blah speculation’ threads are appearing back on the forums and we’re back into the same relentless TSW groove. On TSW3 having gone back on sale I just don’t get it, talk about mixed messages! It’s hard to draw any other conclusion from it though than TSW4 hasn’t sold as quite as well as they thought it would.

 

You mentioned these on 28 Oct. Are any of them fixed?

 

Well, it will sell for example to me only after I get TSW4 or TSW5, which won't be either until Union Workshop's route release and positive impressions of it from players (and not only ambassadors), or TSW4/5 being bundled in another Humble (or Fanatical) bundle. If DTG kept releasing DLCs for TSW3 for another year instead, it would definitely sell to me earlier.

 

After the lastest Roadmap I'm pretty disappointed about the reaction of DTG about all the problems after release of TSW 4. It is ALWAYS the same what they say when they shipwrecked something severly. "Sorry, we will do better" but they never deliever on that.
Anybody remember the wrong Dostos on Hamburg Lübeck
The several sound desasters?
Several crashes on all the plattforms over the last years.
As it stands, for me TSW 3 is the end of the track for me. I don't have any faith anymore in this company. It makes me sad because I actually really love the game, but as someone above said: It should be fun and not the cause of frustration.

 

The Roadmap article mentions specific fixes to TSW3. Do you believe those will come, and if they do, will they be good or bad for TSW3 ?

 

I don't care anymore. They will come eventually/probably and what they do or not do, we will see. From my experience over the last years I will wait some days before I let Steam update the game.

 

They've been saying exactly that for years.

 

Yup. Its called the Say-Do Gap.

"For businesses, it’s a critical measure of integrity with implications for brand health, retention of talent and investor confidence: the wider the gap, the less the trust between businesses and their customers, and between businesses and their employees and shareholders."

 

It's easier to believe in Santa Claus who is coming than in the company's promises that everything will be corrected now in TSW 4, but there are those who believe everything they say out there.

Is TSW 2020 obsolete? Unreal engine 4.16
Is TSW 2 obsolete? Unreal engine 4.26
Is TSW 3 obsolete? Unreal engine 4.26
Isn't TSW 4 obsolete? Unreal engine 4.26

For me it's all the same, nothing has changed as usual, the funniest thing is that it has effects in TSW 2020 that are better than the later ones. They could have continued to sell all TSW with no impact, even without providing more support, that's called stupidity.

I'm looking at another developer building trains with Unreal Engine 5, I just don't know what the build version is.

 

I’m struggling to fit your analysis to the graph. The only point that TSW3 increases in the past few days is when the big discount on that game appears in the store but at the same time TSW4 goes up as well following its normal weekly cycle. At no point is there a dip in TSW4 that corresponds to the increase in TSW3 which would be seen if what you say was true.

 

Sorry to dig this up so late, was away from forums, but wow... HALF of a free update to SR would probably provide enough new features for two or three TSW paywalls.

 

DTG really need to take a good look at SimRail and Hmmsim Metro. Early access they may be, but they are looking to be of much higher quality. Especially SimRail’s big updates coming. Both are good examples are what can be done. I want all three games to succeed and thrive, but DTG really need to spend some time looking at their new competitors and see how they can improve their efforts. SimRail appears that it will be at an entirely different level within a few weeks and I applaud their good work.

No reason why all three can’t strive to be the best they can. That is what will retain customers, attract new customers and promote customer spending on new DLCs. I would be happy to upgrade to TSW4 and buy DLCs at full price if it were as good as SimRail or Hmmsim. Until then, I use TSW3 and am very hesitant to purchase DLC, and only when it’s on a steep sale. That does not need to be the case.

 

Simrail is for sure promising, and I'm looking forward to their being a fully singleplayer timetable option. I'll play it a lot more then.
Hmmsim isn't really all that good from what I've seen though. No passengers, and isn't updated that often.

 

I don't own Hmmsim, but from what I understand they are also releasing a big update soon, currently being in beta. Problem their is the lack of english communications.

 

The current Hmmsim beta in UE5 is gorgeous. Communication is Hmmsim’s shortcoming. I use a translate app to get the gist of it, but they don’t make a lot of effort to communicate in any language. Communication aside, the beta looks excellent it shouldn’t be too long before a major update.

It does lack passengers and they may or may not add them. But does have heavy AI train traffic and probably the best visuals of all three games.

The visuals and AI traffic are something that DTG should take note of.

 

I've got zero interest in a train sim without passengers. Feels like playing a lifeless trainset.
The visuals do look good though.

 

Yes, it is indeed promising! Once Searchlight Simulations releases their locomotive and route I am definitely going to purchase.

 

If you want passengers and Asian railways may I recommend Train Crew? It's not the best on graphics but it has a communicative developer.

 

Just thought I'd mention that TSW4 is next up on XBox free play weekends so everyone can now give it a try and decide for themselves if the number "4" is indeed justified. After finally getting it to work my personal feeling is that if it'd have included lighting & performance upgrades then yes, it would have done enough....but 'as is'? Nope, I'm not really getting that feeling of playing something new.
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/tag/free-play-days/

 

Hahahahahaha, this thread still going on. TSW will never be installed on my pc ever again.
Just waiting now for the SimRail update to arrive on the 21st of this month.
Shed loads of improvements and a new emu, for NO EXTRA cost.
No shonky dlc or money making scams.

 

...but still no good singleplayer content.

 

Timetable mode is bad?

 

The EU4 server is unmonitored and restarts every 4 hours so you can always go on that and be effectively single player but with loads of ai services. It's what I do to learn new traction units or signal boxes. Just an option for you if its a genuine concern.

Tbh I used to be adamant that multiplayer wasn't for me. Then I tried it. Now I can honestly say I'll never go back to SP unless it's to learn something in a place where I won't bother anyone else. Multiplayer simrail has been an eye opener, and everyone has been without exception very helpful. Their discord is active and any issues are swiftly dealt with.

 

My genuine concern is being able to play without an internet connection.

 

Yeah that's a legitimate concern. I'll see what I can find regarding SP updates that might be incoming.

 

OK so I found the following. Might have to wait for the second patch but its in the pipeline.


This is the first patch so you can see they're busy at work.

 

Visually and performance wise it's much better than TSW. A bit less detail on the models than TSW, but the overall look is still much better. Reflections and light effects are also better.

It is true that it is missing passenger and a few other things, I do hope it is something that they will add in the future. But on the other hand it features 3 or 4 types of driveable trains in different liveries and a bunch of AI ones, and they also plan on adding more driveable trains. The route is bustling with traffic, you meet train every minute or so, it's really interesting and immersive, compared to most TSW routes where you only see one or two type of rolling stock on most routes.

And I wouldn't say it does not get updated that often. They always seem to have an update at least once half a year, but sometimes even more frequently. Can you say the same about any TSW route?

 

I have hmmsim but the developers have missed set deadlines and do not communicate anything besides the updates. Updates are really rare. Last update was many months ago. It's also just a bit of scenarios so there's not much replayability. Different trains exist but they all drive similarly.

 

Huh? Some update downloaded for Hmmsim for me like around 2 weeks ago. The files were definitely modified, so it wasn't just a random verify files by Steam client. However, lately, with exception of Bus Simulator 21's free weekend, I play building/construction/survival/life sims than driving/flying sims, which are a real time sink, so I haven't checked what changed there, similarly like I haven't even had time to check the Peak Forest Rail that downloaded for TSW3 a week ago.

EDIT: I apparently switched to beta of Hmmsim some time ago, so that's why it gets updates more often.

 

Is it Hmmsim 2 youre talking about? I ask because Im looking it up on youtube

 

The Hmmsim Metro beta has been receiving updates about every two weeks lately. The existing route is being moved over to the UE5 beta in segments. The next beta update should be next week which will include the route up to Seoul Station, but it’s always a few days later than the devs say.

But, this is a TSW forum. Just wanted to point to Hmmsim as something that TSW could look at and strive for visually.

 

Hmmsim metro on steam

 

Looks good. One to keep an eye on.

 

Maybe someone can come up with an English translation of at least the cab controls and interface?

 

It used to be in Korean but they changed it so it's more user friendly. There are multiple tutorial pages. Some of the buttons and stuff do have English markings. Examples being like elbcos and power changeover (ac/dc). There's a screen that shows you the position of the reverser and the brake. The only Korean you'll have to know is the stop is on the left or right, this station is.... and power changeover I think which you can just look for signs and do it that way.

 

It's been available in English at least for some 1.5 years now. Some things were available in English already at the beginning of 2022, because that's when I started playing it (though I can read Hangul, I would need to use translator to understand anyway). In the next big update in 2022 all of the UI was already translated to English. From the voiceovers, station announcements are both in Korean and English and voice messages that are being told to the driver can be learned like when playing with LZB/PZB/Sifa on a German route in TSW without knowing German language.

 

I just wish there was another train sim that focused on UK or had UK content.

 

I think we here in the US can say the same thing about wishing for more US content which always, time and time again, takes a back seat to everything else. And even when there is US content, it’s not free of plenty of issues and inaccuracies. Honestly the Metrolink DLC for TSW4 is probably the most accurate US content in a long time and even it has plenty of stuff to be addressed. I feel like the UK and UK content is by far the most common thing available for any Train Sim on any platform.

 

US freight does have Run 8 as a backup, but for passenger stuff, you are pretty much stuck with TSC, TSW or try and find stuff on Trainz or Open Rail (If that has any commuter stuff)

 

If you want a fictional route with real trains, there's diesel railcar simulator.

 

Nah, real route with real trains

 

SimRail I think are opening a (edit- correction below), but I don't know if that's in the planning stage, implementation stage or current development stage.
If DTG sorted themselves out structurally and in quality output terms, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. But- given how much promise some of these other titles show, I'm kind of on the fence about which way I'd prefer this all to go.

 

Not a US division, but they are working with 3rd party studio Searchlight Simulations to release a Minnesota based Canadian Pacific route in the future.

 

Thanks. I've corrected my post. :thumbs up:

 

Thanks for that, I never heard of Metro before and just grabbed it. It looks fantastic, has great sounds and is pretty immersive. A lot of gameplay already for €16.

 

Right; thank you

 

Thanks! A lot of the YouTube videos I've seen must have been older, because there was no English at all and that was somewhat intimidating.

 

Ive stopped buying dlc and I won't be picking up the just trains stuff. I just cant bear to part with my cash for such bug ridden messes. NY to Trenton is still badly broken months later.

 

I'm really looking forward to SimRail, it looks and sounds genuinely awesome. While as a console player I probably won't be able to play it, I'm still hoping that some competition will boost things at bit at DTG...
As of right now, things seem quite bleak with TSW4.