After looking at this end of line station(Which isn't the true end of line station)except on this dlc route.So unless the Alegra 8/12 isn't pulling any coaches(Which it most likely will or uses the station passing track)it's gonna need a cab car to go back the way it came.So what's the possibility of this route getting a cab car of some kind?
For purposes of TSW and similar to reality, at the Swiss end, the train will enter a portal/head for the real end of the route, then when the service to Tirano is due one will arrive. Not sure how they turn at Tirano, possibly another loco (train) connects up in the station at that end, leaving just the original front train to get out the platform when the new formed train leaves. Edit: From videos there’s often shunting trains hanging about the place so they probably use them at Tirano, I can’t see this being a 2 train route so maybe my other possibility is the one they will use.
The service will just end and you will need to leave your train. AI takes over and leaves the map. Just like any other TSW route where the end point is not a real terminus.
AFAIK the Allegra is a multiple unit and has a full cab at either end. If the version we get does finish at Ospizio then as noted, northbound trains to St !Moritz etc will simply exit through a takeout portal (or spawn in southbound).
Yes, but it tends to run with extra coaches attached to the end of the train. So to turn around, the EMU would have to run around the coaches.
I was at Tirano this summer, they do all the shunting with the Allegra itself. Push the coaches back, detach, run forward, then around, then some merry shuffling to get the uphill formation ready!
Yep, these operations are featured in the TSC version of Bernina iirc. But as Dinosbacsi pointed out, trains will run into and come out of portals at Ospizio.
If memory serves me correctly too at Tirano, the BEX coaches would be shunt released from the hauling railcars or 800 class locos rather than run round. In fact some of the BEX formations were so long with the hauling units attached were foul of the station throat.
Can't wait for this route, finally there are small part of Italy, (my country). Is possible to drive also the GE 4/4 RHB?
Not on this route. The 4/4 on arosa can't run due to differing power systems. Allegra can run on arosa however
That's how it is IRL. Sometimes freight is added at the back of passenger trains, other times Allegras haul freight-only trains. There is one other type of traction on the line (Abe 4/4 III railcars), though those are getting less and less time (this summer they were only diagrammed to haul the "short" Bernina Express trains between Tirano and Sankt Moritz, this winter they're not diagrammed at all)
Check out this short video.It's 1:01 it shows that there is a separate allegra cab car at the opposite end of a train with regular coaches and a allegra 8/12 at the rear. You'll have to type the following on youtube to see it,since posting the video myself is a pain in bum. Type this in on youtube. Rhatische Bahn,Regionalzug mit Abe 8/12 (Allegra) vor Bergun Video post by Bahnland_schweiz
There are Cab Car variants called Ait / Bit. The Dual Voltage Unit, which Rivet is recreating is the ABe 8/12, both parts with the cabs have Motor bogies and the wagon in the middle has the 2 non driven bogies. Also Uncoupling / Coupling from the 3 Unit Parts isnt usually done for operation, its a special type of short coupler, which requires removing bolts to separate them.
The allegra 8/12 has powered bogies in two of it's 3 sections.So wouldn't the powered bogies only be in the sections with a pantograh,meaning the trailing cab just for driving.In the above posted video it shows a allegra driving cab at the opposite end of the train.Which i'm guessing gets it's power from the allegra 8/12 at the other end. Note:Why does the baggage car have a panotgrah?(Found out it's for extra power for heating the train.) Correct? PS:Thanks to steamylocoman for the assistance in posting the video.If only i was that good at doing it.
A Trailing Cab Car you have either with the Cab Car or the ABe 4/16, which is the 4 Part Unit (1 Cab Driven, 2 Trailer, 1 Cab non motor). Pantograph locations are not nessecarily over a motor bogie. The ABe 8/12 ZTZ has 3 Pantographs, 2 on the Cab Units for the DC Voltage, and the one on the middle coach is for the Alternate voltage.
So if by chance you watch the video above 1:01.The cab car appears to have no pantograph on it.So is this a powered or unpowered cab car? While the allegra 8/12 appears to have 2 pantographs one on the center one on the end.
The Allegra-looking At and Bt cab cars are too long to be used on the bernina. They are based on the ABe 4/16 Allegras, not the 8/12, which have longer cars and are used elsewhere on the main RhB network.
cab cars are not allowed to be used on Bernina, as there are issues with the gradient and the radius of the curves. The loco (or EMU) at the back of the train would just push the train off the rails in those curves. The cab cars already make a lot of issues on Arosaline irl due to those reasons, and that route has bigger curves and less gradient. Yes, they were used on Albulaline for some time for long trains, as the loco could not produce enough electricity for heating etc for very long trains. Loco then got electricity to coaches until the baggage car, and the baggage car to the coaches behind it. Pantograph is not used anymore, and most cars have lost them by now again.
To avoid speculation: to my knowledge, there have never been cab cars in use on the Bernina. Before the Allegra, the line was operated by railcars (which were run around at either end of the line). These days the Allegra still runs around (along with some shunting to ensure the formation is valid) In modern day ops, cab cars are seen on the RhB between Scupl/Tarasp and Pontresina (Engadin Line), and on the Albula line (either as part of the Alvra articulated sets, or at the end of a EW coach consist for replacement trains.)
Allegra (ABe 8/12) has 3 pantographs. One on each of its 3 parts. Allegra is actually loco-coach-loco, where each loco also has space for passengers.
Yes for the first part. Unless RhB make big changes to their rolling stock, loco or EMU will need to be on the front at Bernina. Atm, the Allegra would just push the train off the rails in those tight curves. That is also the reason, why on Arosa, the Cab car always needs to be on the downhill side, but that is not possible, as Bernina line has its highest point in the middle of the route, with 7% gradient on both sides. (Arosa, gradient is just in one direction). On all other lines on RhB, cab cars are used, in Engadin, Albula, Prättigau (not anymore now, as they use now EMUs in regular service), Surselva (rare, but happens. soon to be swapped to EMUs) and Arosa (need to be downhill side). I think on Albula, they also need to be on the downhill side, not sure on this though.
Yes sorry, I didn't include the lines that now use EMUs. The Surselva line... uses the NevaRetica railcars in the consists, but always run around the Ge 4/4 II in Disentis/Muster AFAIK. I read somewhere (cannot find the source right now annoyingly) that the EW coaches in use on that line are not wired for remote control, and the NevaRetica railcar is only in the consist to satisfy accessibility requirements (since it has low-floor entry, unlike the EW.) And as far as I know yes, the cab cars are always on the downhill side of Albula & Arosa trains for the reasons you mentioned
yes, some consists there still have coaches that are not wired for remote control. And the cab car is needed for low-floor. That is correct. When some consists sometimes only had coaches that were wired for remote control, I also saw them use the cab cars there. It is not done anymore, as the Neva cab cars don't have the new ZSI-127. So always loco in front.
Interesting, thanks! That's interesting! I've heard it's the same reason the ABe 4/4 III are not diagrammed anymore at least for this winter on the Bernina, they're still stuck with the ZSI-90 equipment. Unsure if that's because RhB plans on using the downtime to retrofit them, or if they're been taken out for good (I hope not, love these units!)
I don't know if they have ever really done this but on the arosa/chur route found in the game,there is one scenario where a train taking passengers to the viaduct bridge on the route has a Ge 4/4 II at each end of the train.I guess at least on the arosa line this might be a option if cab cars are not.
I don't want to say it has never happened because RhB formations can be a bit of a wild card, but if it has happened at all, it's extremely rare. Arosa has used cab cars for a very long time now (when the Ge 4/4 II was still running services on it, and now with the Allegra as the main traction)
ABe 4/4 III are now out of service for 2 reasons: no low-floor (trains must have low-floor from 2024 onwards, and no ZSI-127). Bernina will now be 100% Allegra. In summer, when they need more for the BEX, they will take Allegras from Arosa, which themselves will be replaced with Ge 4/4 II. (well, atm they are still in reverse, but parked on a track without OHLE; very little chance to get back in service) Might have happened once exceptionally, but not feasible in normal conditions: you loose way too much weight you can pull, as the 2nd loco in the back needs to be pulled too, so way less coaches. And the loco can't be remote controlled, and is not allowed to push uphill. There some very limited conditions it could be done, but they are too complicated to be worth the effort in normal times. The Ge 4/4 II used cab cars from the beginning, and even the EMUs before used cab cars or ran around.
I'm guessing rivet games used 2 GE 4/4 II for this scenario because 1.The train only went as far as the viaduct bridge. 2.There's no way to move the loco to the opposite end on the bridge and reversing the train back to the previous station to run around the loco may have been difficult to put in the scenario. 3.But the biggest reason was rivet games couldn't be bothered or didn't have the time to add some type of available cab car for this route. Note:This is just a side note...Even thou the Ge 4/4 II doesn't normally work or has ever been used on the bernina line.TSW in game scenario planner/off the rails mode should still allow this unrealistic option to be tried out.
It physically can't, as Bernina uses different electrification type than the rest of the RhB network 1000V DC vs 11kV 16,7 Hz AC In off the rails mode, you can let it run there, but not in normal mode.
