Pzb Vu Modes

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Volvo B10M, Nov 21, 2023.

  1. Volvo B10M

    Volvo B10M Active Member

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    How do I know if an approaching PZB transmitter is VU1 (85/70/55KMH), VU2 (45KMH) or VUM (10KMH) application of speed restriction if the vehicle does not have a status display?
     
  2. stateoftheartjonas

    stateoftheartjonas Active Member

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    Well it's always Vü1 unless you undercut Vum, at that point restrictive monitoring will kick in which checks for Vü2.
    You can see which one is monitored by the PZB lights: if 55/70/85 is blinking then Vü1 is monitored, if you go below Vum then 70 and 85 will blink in alternation which let's you know that you're in restrictive mode where Vü2 is monitored.
     
  3. Volvo B10M

    Volvo B10M Active Member

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    Doesn't one of the maps have PZB that require you to be under 45 either way but in 120 sections?
     
  4. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    These are not PZB supervised. The 1000Hz magnet can only make sure you're below 85 km/h (Mode O). Restrictive 1000Hz only kicks in after a halt or crawling below 10 km/h for 15 seconds during an active 1000Hz monitoring.

    At terminal stations, sometimes speed restrictions of 30 or 20 km/h are secured by a permanently active 500 Hz magnet to prevent the train from crashing into the buffers, which will make sure you're below 45 km/h. (500 Hz curve: 65 km/h to 45 km/h within 153 metres)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2023
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  5. Volvo B10M

    Volvo B10M Active Member

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    This was within 120 sections on 1000HZ.

    Also, when speed drops from 150 to 120 there should be no PZB acknowledgement needed according to the tutorial video but the brakes are applied. Why does the train need to be at 80 if there is a 120 section?
     
  6. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    There's also GPA (speed check sections) which can enforce a speed limit on dangerous parts of the route. (Three magnets, On contact, 2000Hz, OFF contact).
     
  7. Volvo B10M

    Volvo B10M Active Member

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    2000Hz would just stop the train anyway how do I pass these on 10 and what is the acknowledgement indicator sign? It doesn't make sense if I have to set speed to 10 as this would be an unacceptable delay.
     
  8. LCYCowboy

    LCYCowboy Active Member

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    These GPA magnets make sure that you have reduced to a suitable speed before you get to the speed restriction. So if you are slowing from 140 down to 100, and even if you are sure that you are going to be at 100 as you pass the 10 sign (with very strong braking) you may still get an emergency brake application.
     
  9. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    [EDIT - Jan - Rude]. The 2000 Hz magnet in a GPA is only active for a very short time, so it'll only stop you if you're too fast and reaching it too early.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2023
  10. Volvo B10M

    Volvo B10M Active Member

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    I never said I know it all and I don't know why you are having a go at me. I was asking because I didn't know, the information I have been given before is that 2000 must be passed with override held at not more than 10kmh so why am I being a know it all?
     
  11. stateoftheartjonas

    stateoftheartjonas Active Member

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    No but you said It doesn't make sense if I have to set speed to 10 as this would be an unacceptable delay.
    Deciding what does make sense and what doesn't, and which delays are acceptable and which aren't while you barely know how the system works seems indeed a bit know-it-all-ish ;)

    When a 2000Hz magnet is active, you can pass it by holding override and not going faster than 40km/h. In the case of GÜs, the 2000Hz is active for a short time, then disables itself again. If you're going too fast, you'll hit the active magnet and get an emergency braking, but if your speed is within limits the magnet is disabled by the time you reach it and you don't have to do anything.

    1000Hz magnets monitor a speed curve from:
    O: 165 to 85 in 23 seconds
    M: 125 to 70 in 29 seconds
    U: 105 to 55 in 38 seconds​
    Here, delays are acceptable: if the speed limit is lowered to 90 or 80 and it is guarded by a magnet, you'll have to lower your speed all the way to 55 when driving a U-mode train, then once you can release you speed up again. This can be a bit annoying. And even affect O-mode trains, e.g. on Hamburg-Lübeck there are 90 zones where PZB kicks in and you have to remember to lower your speed to 85 instead of 90.

    Also, if you have released from a previous PZB monitoring but are still within its range (within 700m from the moment releasing was possible), another 1000Hz magnet will not monitor the speed curves but will immediately monitor the target speed of 85/70/55!
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2023
  12. Volvo B10M

    Volvo B10M Active Member

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    I was referring to the 10 minute threshold which is commonly deemed acceptable (except Japan where that is often less than a minute). I have had situations where I have had PZB trigger a few times which has ended in over 10 minutes of delay. I also thought the maximum override speed was 10 for some reason, is it just for passing a red to enter an occupied section or am I getting rule books confused?
     
  13. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    As far as the mechanical side is concerned, it’s 40km/h. However, if you pass into a potentially occupied section, you’ll have to drive on sight. Depending on track layout and visibility conditions, that means you’ll probably be crawling.
    The other frequent use of the override is in shunting. Shunting’s always limited to 25km/h (or lower).

    In regards to your overall question, there’s an explanation of GPAs in my signature. Bottom line is that you usually can be no faster then 15km/h over the next, lower speed limit when hitting the GPA. The exact figure varies for different restrictions.
     
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  14. Volvo B10M

    Volvo B10M Active Member

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    Thanks for the information
     

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