Dovetail Games Maintalbahn Preview Q&a Thread

After watching the Stream i feel pretty underwhelmed. I actually was looking forward this route. I dont feel like that the choice of route is a problem here (although i agree that there are much more stunning alternatives) but Niddertalbahn also isn't really that picturesque compared to other routes tbf, but the implementation was done right there.

With Maintalbahn, except the texture if ballast, this route doesn't really look like it was just developed, but rather developed right after MSB. DTG already did better than this. And of course no comparison to BPO. (All the things that can be done with the right amount of passion and dedication).

The DB Br 642 is the strong point of this DLC i think, it looks fantastic. The Sounds are okayish, i liked the braking noise which really is a distinctive sound of those DMU. Otherwise its not bad, but not really an outstanding Soundset (i allow myself a judgement here as i was traveling with 642 Desiros from and to work for over a year).

So for me personally, with a big discount, this would be an option. But for the full price absolutely not. Sorry.

 

I think the German DTG guy-Lukas-that ran the stream hinted we might get it extended to Werteim if it is popular enough but not his words exactly. He does seem to have a bit of pulling power so......

https://www.youtube.com/live/A6JLdj2QU9k?si=VvcS02ALwJi7JwIK


If we can get everyone to buy it.

I want to see the single track route from TSC up north near Lubeck I think (or Hamburg?). And is there another one or two single track routes that could be made? As a real driver I love single track routes in freight because freight is always more challenging to stop a heavy freight train on non flat terrain even if it isn't a mountain pass which I don't want. But in passenger routes in Germany we have so many dual track ones its good for variety.

One of my favs is the Berlin Wittenberg route (or full length Leipzig) and Aerosoft I think had a scenario for the BR151 (I think) where you had to stop about 5 or 6 times on the way to Berlin on a freight service. The route is highly detailed by TSC standards and the freight and locomotive is amazing. I hate TSC now as it is out dated.

I do hope to see that someday unless there are better routes.

At the end of the day we have a route editor now....So if people want they can build that route that they have wished for since day dot. Or crowdfund even. Just saying.


https://store.steampowered.com/app/1109209/Train_Simulator_NorddeutscheBahn_Kiel__Lbeck_Route_AddOn/



https://store.steampowered.com/app/222585/Train_Simulator_BerlinWittenberg_Route_AddOn/

 

I guess the more people critique the routes the less commercial incentive sits there for routes to be extended. Tough balance

 

Not buying a route on the offchance it might get extended, particularly when that extension itself is not exactly iconic.

This is a route that in any other sim would probably have been issued as freeware.

And we may have the route editor but it is still in a fairly unusable or over complicated state for most casual would be builders to use.

Saying "make it yourself" is simply using the Strawman tactic.

 

As a german, I'm not that impressed by the route to pull the trigger and buy it either.

The length and variety which this route offers is simply to less to justify spending almost 30€ for it.

The port was an interesting point for me, but the creation is simply too lifeless in my opinion. No new riverboat assets, no loading or unloading of ships, no workers, just a few cranes which move around its axis.

That is simply too less love to detail for me, to save my last interest in it.

If I want to see an immersive recreation of a (german) port, I'll go to ETS2 again and visit the newly (for free remodeled) ports of Nürnberg (Nuremberg) or Hamburg in the base map.

Now coming back to the main route, 37km is just too less to keep me interested for a route I've never heard of and have no personal relation to.

Even an extension to Wertheim wouldn't make it much better to justify the price tag, I think. And apart of that, mentioning a possible route extension is just sugar coating in my opinion. If they are not going to extend routes which are by far more popular (and even more expensive) then they probably won't do it here either.

I would say the route in its current state is not worth more than 19,99€ list price, and not 29,99€. And that is even only in comparison to the price politics of Dovetail's own standards.

But as I mention before, I see no real point of interest for me personally with this route.

And the playable timetable layers of the 642 to other routes are also too less to make a purchase reasonable.

A big con for me is that new trains aside of Ebula still do not offer any passenger announcements in TSW4 (but Just Trains could achieve), which is personally for me even more important than the authentic sounds they obtained from the original (which I also appreciate very much) but I really miss that much and even would have been a big seller for me to get that DLC.

I wonder about the route selection, too. Of course, recycling Aschaffenburg was a major point for DTG to bring it in, but as a german railfan let me say that this route is not very prominent (known) nor very much requested.

I maybe will give it a go when it would be 50% off somewhen in the future, but just as it is today, not a must-buy for me.

 

We already bought TSW4 with the expectation to might get fixes so I doubt this route will get an extension in the future. Besides I would also more like to see a rework of other stuff then this route extendend.

Just as anyone else has said...the route doesn't feel like it was done with a lot of passion and love compared to Niddertalbahn or Blackpool for example. And the included rolling stock also seems to disappoint at this point of time. So the main problem is not the selection but that it (again) feels like a rushed product. Let's see what we get on tuesday, but I don't have much hope that a lot of stuff changed since the stream.

Btw. coming back to PIS questions:

Has this been fixed? (screen from the stream).

 

Considering the 801 still all have the same numbers, and the PIS has been broken on it since a month before release. I think we can safely say that, no it isn't fixed for their new route, and it won't be in the foreseeable future.

 

They mentioned in the stream that it has been fixed for release, yes.

 

One always wonders which user polls, player enquettes lead to DTG's peculiar/particular choices of routes.
They pretend to do market research, listen to their customers, but still we get these 'glass half full' efforts?
With the usual credo 'if you don't like it, don't buy it'?

"We" seriously asked for this route?

Another one where I vote with my wallet, waiting for a 50-70% off sale. Which will come soon as there is too little revenue generated by full price sales.

 

I often think some of their routes are built by a loose consortium of associates who are basically taking the lead as to what and where they build. So we end up with oddities like Manchester to Glossop which wasn’t too bad just very short and now this German effort. Definitely the cart leading the horse…

 

People have been asking for German routes that aren't electric-only double track main lines, yes.

 

There are actually 2 (or even 3) reasons for me why this, the Maintalbahn, and even the other Aschaffenburg to Gemünden route has been chosen.

1. DTG's Office in Germany is in Frankfurt am Main.

Creating a route requires the need for authentic ressources (images to recreate the scenery, taking the sounds and last but not least the communical connection to the license owner/operator of the route).

Because of this I can understand to a certain degree that it's favorable for them (not only because of time but also the costs to travel) to choose routes which are not that far away from the office.

Frankfurt itself, DTG is unfortunately scared of to bring it to TSW because of the performance (Matt said so in some streams), altough we have a very impressive and outstanding community project (run by pilot21, a single person) which aims to provide us a portion of the Main-Weser-Bahn. He is currently about to create the main station and skyline of Frankfurt.

But putting that aside, it's clearly to see that for a good portion of their german routes, they chose routes close to Frankfurt.

Linke Rheinstrecke is really not far away to the west, Mainz about 30 or 40km off Frankfurt, Cologne and the Ruhrgebiet (europe's biggest metropole network) is still pretty fast reached.

Niddertalbahn (about 15 to 20 km north of Frankfurt) was TSGs project, but don't know how much the office were involved to make it happen. Probably more than we think.

And now Aschaffenburg. Aschaffenburg is a big city almost at the portals to Frankfurt.

So, yes I can clearly see a favor for routes close to Frankfurt as rather some which are located more in the northern part of Germany. This is fine and even economic reasonable but don't forget all the other beautiful routes in Germany and give us a bit more variety and transparence with the route selection.

2. DTG Lukas (Main german route creator) said in the preview stream that his grandmother lived in one of the cities at the Maintalbahn.

Also I think a logical consequence (although just an unproven statement of mine) is that Lukas himself maybe comes from Aschaffenburg or its surroundings originally.

So for me it seems that he has a personal relation to the region and its resident routes. Which is absolutely fine as well, I have so too for the routes I try to create with the Editor.

But that of course gives a reasonable explanation to why there might be such passion for Aschaffenburg, which in terms of german railway traffic, rather has an inferior role.

And 3. well the most obvious but also critic point of mine: The reuse/recycling of Aschaffenburg.

I mean I have no problem that DTG does that per se, but the 2 issues connected to that are A. since we only have such a less amount of routes in Germany yet, it's still a bit iffy to chose the same not so overwhelming location twice, but also B. that we actually paying 29,99€ for a route, which partwise already has been created and charged for before.

If you can't manage (performancewise or whatelse) to provide the Maintalbahn as a branch to Aschaffenburg Gemünden (either as a paid extension or even as free upgrade - no I'm not nuts just referencing to other developers like SCS) then at least give it a fair price tag.

 

4. (as mentioned in the stream) we only get routes in areas (federal states) where the LIDAR data is freely available in Germany. This is not the case anywhere, for example lower saxony does not provide free LIDAR data.

 

I also would like to see more single track diesel lines in TSW, but I guess what he meant was why especially this route in particular.

 

Mecklenburg-Vorpommern is another state I have proof where it isn't free, yet. Selling the Lidar data for ridiculous high prices in the 6 digit spectrum for high quality resolution literally noone can buy , not even large enterprises.

So, this might be true. However, sources say that Lidar should be free nationwide at the last half of 2024. So at least from then, this is no longer an excuse for DTG.

But just as a side note, not every Lidar data means high quality and what you aim for when getting it. In my case, Rhineland-Palantine only offers DGM25 for free, and even that in a somehow corrupt way and I have to use the SRTM data to do it (which is really not the best solution, but still gives a base for building a route at an at least half-detailed landscape).

 

If they wanted to do single track diesel less off the beaten track, why not Kempten to Reutte in Tirol, Kempten to Ulm or even part of the Obereruhrtalbahn, the latter probably the favourite of everyone who has played Zusi. Well okay Obereruhrtalbahn is strictly double track but the branches are single and very scenic.

 

I stopped reading here. DTG’s German office

 

Don't know why this should be so funny. They have one there, even if it's just small or one room only.

It's where Lukas creates the routes.

You can see it in his Linkedin profile.

 

Probably his spare bedroom aka study!

 

I think I remembered that he himself called it the office or at least "his office" (maybe being sarcastic Idk).

Anyway, I don't know why this shall be so relevant and important now as it doesn't change anything at all about I wanted to tell (that they have favor to chose routes close to Frankfurt am Main).

 

It’s not really, other than when people refer to the German office they probably have visions of the whole floor of a building filled with cubicles, workstations and various artists and route builders beavering away. The reality is somewhat different!

 

I think the thing is , that if one of these was produced there would be another person pop up and say "it's not right, why not maintahlbahn".

It's an unwinnable game to all parties.

 

Therefore, DTG can just look in the Suggestion forum and see which routes are more popular and wished to be created than others since we can cast votes on them.

There also ever will be persons who don't like the best high detailed route and better have a different one. But I think the mass can give at least a good hint at what is generally more favored and wanted than anything else.

A lesson DTG seems to not have learned very well in several different aspects, yet.

 

That sentence makes me smiling, because probably almost noone in Germany would ever say that.

 

The Suggestions forum is just a subset of forum users, and forum users are just a subset of players, and neither is a representative one.

And of course a branch line connecting two small towns is going to suffer from "I didn't ask for this" and "I haven't even heard of this line" much more than a big main line route. Like, more people have heard of Frankfurt than of Miltenberg. That's not rocket science. If you'd asked me what branch line DTG should have done, I'd have said something that's near Dresden, not because all the branch lines in Saxony are inherently more interesting than Maintalbahn, but because I live in Dresden and I don't know enough about branch lines in most other places to make a good suggestion.

So yeah, I just don't think that "not a lot of people asked for this specific route" and "I haven't even heard of this place before" are useful for evaluating branch lines.

 

Well, someone who lives there might. That's the whole thing about lines that are of only local importance. I've certainly not seen a broad consensus about what would've been the best German single-track diesel branch line to adapt on the forum so far. The main difference in how often certain routes are mentioned seems to be how often the one person who cares about them pops up to talk about them, not how popular they really are.

 

But I think there is at least a mediocre reasonable concept behind the suggestions placed in the suggestion forum, showing a more common interest in some routes make them indeed more likely to be sold and therefore better in the vision of DTG to build and implement.

I also think there are definitely small diesel routes with more or less only local importance (therefore never would become many votes casted) but do offer a high potential also for local-foreigners because of the profile and diversity of the route.

OldVern already mentioned some examples. I know a few more, too.

One of those I know, I'm actually about to create in the Editor currently.

On the other hand, Maintalbahn, although I appreciate it being now in TSW, is - after my own opinion - not a very attracting route per se. There are no hills or mountains, no sees or oceans, not much iconic landmarks, we have the Main which the route goes along, but I watched the stream, and I couldn't see the river that often (maybe it was because they only used cabin view for most of it, but just saying - i didn't notice it very much).

The Maintalbahn route has for me a way more generic and just normal appeal, but nothing fency.

I want to get attracted by its unique flair and sightseeing spots. This is what I really miss here, when I want to drive a route along.

If an unpopular, not commonly "asked for" route is picked by DTG, it should at least give me an outstanding and unique experience, I can't get with any other route to compare.

 

Maintalbahn has quite a busy and varied timetable, and it has freight trains. Both is unusual for a local single-track only route, and both are quite important to making a route fun in TSW. I'd rather have boring scenery and interesting train operations in a train simulator than the other way round.

(They didn't do a very good job of promoting this aspect in the stream though...)

 

Hm...I assume most of us undertand a busy and varied timetable as the timetables in SEHS, Dresden, LFR, NYT or Blackpool for example.

 

A busy and varied timetable for a single-track branch line.

 

Don't know much about the timetable in MTB yet whether it is comparable full of services. But generally, yes, agree to that. Let's see how good both are implemented in future streams or some videos from TSW ambassadors.

As a side note: We're still talking about a recreation of the route within a game. Therefore a developer (community made or DTG) can create services for freight locos which don't or wouldn't exist in real life.

I know that one reason (and this actually would be the 5th reason for choosing Maintalbahn adding to my list above) or premise of DTG for a route is that is has to have freight traffic to be attracting for the costumers which aim at such services.

But if that really is a death sentence for some routes, which don't contain such IRL, they could add it virtually in. And yes, even though no special freight places like the Glanzstoffwerke or the port with Maintalbahn do exist, it would be already be enough for at least me to provide freight services from one terminus station to the other, with the premise that the train can drive on it dependent upon gange and type of loco (EMU or DMU).

Just a thought. No need to start a rage about it.

It seems that I am passionate about the opposite more likely, rather having a normal to less traffic timetable and a stunning route. But I also appreciate any full and detailed timetable as well.

Spoiler: I'm excited to see what you do with DRA! ;-)

Matt did it well and he also was for sure pretty stressed and maybe even annoyed by the intensive german conversation going on while driving. But yeah, maybe an aim for future streams to go a bit more in third person and show off the environment.

 

There is precedent as Cane Creek has far more trains than it would IRL.

 

Was he? I only know a few words; were they talking about him and his driving?

 

No, they didn't talk about him and his driving. Maybe a little at the hints to where to look at, but no more.

I just meant the situation might have been a bit weird for him, while he needs to focus on the tracks and train, and then this on-going talking in a foreign language + hundreds of people watching an english driver driving on a german route in a german train, not making any mistakes.

I guess this to be a bit challenging situation to be honest.

 

Yes it might have been intimidating but Matt has a great nature and frankly I think he has a lot to do with the fact there is so much German content in the game.

 

Personally, I don't care which routes in Germany DTG picks, as I don't know enough about any of them from a rail perspective to have a meaningful opinion. What I do care about is that the route is done well with attention to detail and is high quality. This one, from the stream...looks iffy in that regard.

 

Yeah, I'll wait for the next TSG route as my next TSW purchase, most likely. They set the bar high with Niddertalbahn.

 

Perhaps one thing the underwhelming reaction to Maintalbahn should tell DTG, is that it’s time to look outside Germany for European routes particularly if all they can come up with is this. Now if the new route had been a 40km secondary route in France, Holland, Benelux or one of the Scandinavian countries we would be queuing up to buy it right now.

 

I just think that the stars aligned against this route in particular. This is the first time DTG venture into a German branch line and we already had the excellent Niddertalbahn before. Then, it releases right after Preston-Blackpool, which is also focused on branch lines (albeit in the UK). Top that off with a DMU that is not exactly awe-inspiring and still no more appropriate freight loco than the blue V60 and I think it's obvious that the problem is not that it's German.

Lukas said that this was essentially just a gap filler for some left-over time in between the development of other products and I had the feeling that it showed.

 

Yes, it feels so. They also could have spent the left-over time with improving the next upcoming german DLC, which high probably - just because it has shown too many times - will also leave space upwards.

Wasted time for many people who appreciate high detailed content and this is exactly the concern raised in another recent thread Can We Pause New Routes For A Bit? - although not being the initial OPs thought. Decreasing the quantity but increasing the quality of DLCs.

 

I had asked if the 628 and 612 add any extra services was told yes. But during a live stream did not see any on the route. I looked at the road map and found the following "628.2 and this version of the older DMU class will substitute into all of Maintalbahn’s 642 services. The DB BR 612 from Tharandter Rampe also subs into the 642 services" So the 628 or the 612 doesn't add any more services. they just sub in..

 

I don't think there should be less German routes just because Maintalbahn isn't exciting - personally I still think, for the most part, they - German routes - are the best overall in consistency gameplay-wise in TSW etc - it's just that DTG need to start selecting much better and interesting routes again which can also use as much existing rolling stock too.

However, of course I agree with you though that it would be nice to see more content from elsewhere. My favourite would be to see more standard-gauge Swiss content, not just from Rivet, but actually from DTG and/or other third-party developers. There could be lots of interesting Swiss routes that could feature not just SBB, but DB, SNCF, OBB, Trenitalia too. But yes, I'd like to see more countries too, from France and the Netherlands, to Norway or Italy etc.

 

I wouldn't mind nice scenic branch lines and wouldn't even mind shorter runs but it doesn't feel like we get any increased quality for shorter routes?

I also dont mind a short branch line but can we have something other than one handle modern stock on it?

Can't we get a nice steam Branchline with a small tank engine to run along with the 4F or something like that? Get a nice pick up goods service running. Maybe even transitional era mix of our current diesels to pad it out a little?

Just focus on the details, the scenery, the clutter, add a few liveries in for some variety? Even if its just one new loco?
We've seen it can be done. And done beautifully.

 

Yeah, if I understood the explanation in the stream correctly the 628 actively subs in and the 612 is selectable as "your" train when you play a service but doesn't automatically show up for AI trains as it isn't prototypical. No new layers. But I think what's worse is that as of now there are no layers for the 642 on other routes, even though it's a super versatile vehicle that could show up in Dresden, Kassel, Chemnitz, Aschaffenburg (MSB)...

 

Not the best way to advertise your product.

 

It is a sub in dcz according to the stream

 

Many recent streams had a certain air of smugness and arrogance, I feel. Totally misplaced. Not buying another route anytime soon.

 

I'd love to see the 642 for Bremen too, although I'd like to still see the 612 stay too even if unrealistic as it means having more rolling stock and gameplay.

 

I've got a question for the stream.... when are the tsw3 bug patch you promised after the small window of release of the failure off tsw4 coming!? (That small window has turned into a massive non-existent window)
Keep promoting 'new' LOVE but FAIL on promises on fixes for tsw3! And your tsw4 sales are barrel bottom and dont know why!?

Just trains SAVED your ass for past couple of weeks!

Take note.

 

They have released their first patch if you look in the announcements section