Enough Is Enough!!!

The only flywheel I want to see is the one in the steam engine.

 

And a wonderful journey it has been so far, Mr Toad.

 

50 shades of DTG woe & it's mostly deserved.

 

Do you think we can make it to 100?

 

I remember all those countless streams where Adam would say something like, " Well, we've done our work in the Preservation Crew. Now it's up to the testers and for DTG to find a release spot on the schedule ".

I imagine all those TSW2 fixes are currently stored and slowly disintegrating in that underground vault below the Old Chatham Post Office to which no-one remembers where the key is hidden.

 

I have visions of DTG Towers being like the Institute in Fallout 4. All those dingy back rooms and corridors away from the glitzy central core filled with the remnants of past DLC and anyone who tries to go near it gets exterminated by an Assaultron.

 

The TSW2 fixes are in the back of the bottom drawer in a locked filing cabinet in a disused basement lavatory with a sign on the door reading "Beware of the Leopard."

 

Maybe the real bug fixes were the friends we made along the way....

 

I tell you you do not want these fixes, because they will break more than they repair.

I have just found out that the Nov 27th TSW3 patches broke RRO, backporting a TSW4 bug to TSW3. Instead of repacking the route in its correct state and distributing it for TSW4, they went the other way round and broke it for both games.

DTG Matt Is there any explanation you could give to make us understand?

 

I would like these fixes and for them to not break something else.

However, I have more chance of being eaten by my own dreams.

 

This thread has become a community of its own.

 

I do.

 

With DTG´s bug production mill at full steam, we´ll make it to 200 in no time. Backporting Number 4 bugs to Number 3 is such a clevaaaaaa move.

 

Looks like those 'teams' are just made up from the same staff wearing different caps at different times, messing things up at their different desks?

In the end, it's all on the management, and I'd think after the TSC auto delete blunder some changes were in order so there will be more competent decisions made in the future?

Instead we keep hearing the same mantra over and over again and to go by the sentiment on this board, even the staunchest fanbois are starting to get nervous.

The number of wishful thinking posts, suggestions and general conversation suggests the present state of the game with ever increasing number of bugs, route and rolling stock choices and the offered gameplay is slowly giving the customers a negative attitude towards TSW.

There are more worthwhile and better supported games/simulations in this genre, and the market is widening with developers and studios that actually listen and deliver on their promises.

Some serious rethinking of the TSW franchise and a re-orientation to what the customer actually wants is in order I'd think.

Focus Entertainment should focus on entertaining us with the train driving game -we- want, shouldn't it?

 

Simply giving us the game they market would be a start. The disconnect between what DTG say TSW is and what it actually is has always been there for all to see, and that gap widens constantly.

We’re now 3 months on from the launch of TSW4. The launch routes are still full of bugs, features we were sold as reasons to buy the game are still not in there, and DTG’s first post-TSW4 route is inevitably missing key elements of the new era. Maintalbahn is actually an ok route, but it is missing LIDAR terrain and the unit doesn’t have the new suspension. Why not?

But whatever, we all know this is how DTG was. It’s been like this since I bought my first copy of TSC, and remains so to this day. The surprising thing is that people are still surprised by it. It is a Godsend that it would appear that a viable competitor has finally entered the market.

 

I barely last 10 minutes on a route in TSW besides BPO.. routes are boring / repetitive / buggy so its a LOVE experience.. I would drive ECML if the 801 was up to par, the 700 sounds wise is absolute LOVE they put the horrible DC desiro sounds from DTG instead of the armstrong powerhouse ones, yet used the AP ones for AC..Supposedly TSW4s core is meant to be better and stuff but honestly ive not noticed one thing different to TSW3 feature and gameplay wise

 

I've gone back to TSC, just having discovered the fantastic freeware route "SFM Torino" which beats most payware routes, because it was developed with love, passion and time. There's just so much more to do and more creative freedom in TSC. (And no invisible walls).

And of course the promising SimRail, where you actually can talk to the dispatcher

TSW doesn't motivate me, I fire it up to check bug reports I see, or to improve my mod, but hardly have the motivation to finish a service. It feels I've been there and done that. It wears off pretty quick for me. Too many bugs. Won't buy any more DLC, and if I could I would sell my collection of "Train Bug World".

 

Railroader looks like it has become TSW’s kryptonite for me. Only bought it last night but can see it becoming addictive. Also been watching vids of that Japanese “Train Crew” which although graphically simple is reminiscent of BVE and Densha de Go, so might pick it up in the winter sale. I should probably rebuy Hmmsim and persevere with that too, again probably in the sale. That doesn’t leave too much over for TSW stuff, the only back catalogue DLC I was remotely interested in is West Rhine, but knowing it’s still buggy is a put off and £15 will probably buy both the previously mentioned games in the sale. And it will be the same old gameplay on West Rhine, A to B fast services, bus stop locals and a few scenarios created where it’s pouring down with rain or snow or pitch black at night.

 

Me likewise, I'll gladly sell back TSW to DTG and take a loss.

In its first incarnation, TSW0 looked good and was interesting, new in visual fidelity (up to a point), rich in features, but already poor in gameplay by DTG's design, i.e. no free roam nor a simple consist and schedule editor.

In hindsight, I wish I hadn't bought TSW and now I am stuck with yearly new released which add very little.

To give DTG the boot, I refuse to buy any full price TSW DLC and wait for it to show up with at least a 50% discount if I even fancy it, because you get mostly one train on a truncated, often boring, section of a route.
If it weren't for the mods, I'd hardly play TSW even.
3rd parties so far have not changed my mind, perhaps JustTrains or others like AP/BMG/Caledonian will bring quality British routes and rolling stock will change my mind. So far they are only testing the waters, i.e. learning the editor and trying to find the balance between effort, quality and profit.

TSC however I play almost daily, trying new QD paths, repainting/editing the odd loco or car, touching up a route here and there, which I find more rewarding than TSW's driving A-to-B-and-back over and over again to complete all the ticks.

 

Agreed.

In seven years of TSW now, there's hardly any improvement. Still the same old bugs plus new ones, a non-working passenger system, lighting issues, stuck AI trains and broken timetables more than ever. In all those years they have not managed (but promised) to deliver a good simulation of Steam engines, something the original TSC devs Kuju and third parties did much better. The game is technically long over its peak and is going down imho. DTG have always been buying and using other people's software because of lack of own skills. Flight Sim World was a disaster, as are their constantly rebranded fishing games.

Also, one of the old timers who was there from the beginning, changing from Kuju to DTG, the great Derek Siddle has left the company...

 

I don't regret investing in TSW as some of the early stuff was quite good. But it started to go downhill with TSW3, really. Core changes and lighting which went from dark shadow over everything to washed out and the crazy adaptive eye. It has become little more than a churn it out and sell it not cheap, DLC factory.

Provided some fun over the years but even BPO has started to get a bit stale after the last couple of runs.

Game needs a new vibe, something to rekindle the interest - in addition to a concerted effort to fix the bugs both in the core and the content, some of the latter which have been opened up by the switch to a new version.

Not quite eyeing it to delete for HD space as it's a lot of money spent to bin, but if MSFS2 delivers next year then TSW more likely to get the boot than TSC, or any of the other train games.

 

They need to add substantially to the core, not just fix bugs.

 

That's our point of view, but the only thing they need to do is to keep their shareholders happy by constantly generating revenue. Which they do.

 

TSW2, sometime in 2021. Few remember all the improvements that were made at that time, and still more promised, but never came; leading to the current situation.

 

I also went back TSC again! Having an editor that really works to create high detail routes and total freedom to do what I want is priceless.
Also, using ReShade and RW Enhancer Pro TSC looks pretty darn good along with the having the great locomotives from Searchlight Simulations and Diesel Workshop, I am content.

TSW does not really interest me anymore being as the free roam is still very buggy, the editor is a joke, and it is lacking good US freight routes and rolling stock.

I recently purchased SimRail while it was on sale and am looking forward to Searchlight Simulations Locomotive and route when it's available.

 

Yeah, the ability to create your stuff from ingame, and not using a heavyweight clunky external editor requiring but not offering cooking capabilities, is so much more convenient. No restrictions on what assets or rolling to stock to use and being able to edit everything was so well planned by Kuju back then.... and I know there's still tons of routes I haven't discovered yet.

And another thing: Have you noticed how worried and unhappy all the TSW passengers look - there's even a man that's suffering from depression by the looks. In SimRail, they're smiling, standing in groups chatting, opening doors and they really walk up to their seat and sit down. In TSW it's just these solitary emotionless zombies spawning and despawning with some strange reflecting hair.

 

The reflective hair is because DTG aren’t setting up the materials properly. It’s been an issue forever and yet, instead of working out how to do it then getting it right going forward they just keep releasing DLC after DLC that has this issue. It’s absolutely no surprise that JT, on their first attempt at doing it set them up correctly. No glowing hair on BPO.

There doesn’t appear to be any ‘management’ (or more pertinently ‘effective’ management) of TSW’s development. Errors are just cascaded from one DLC to another and are never rectified with the mess growing ever larger with each release. There was all this talk of a check-list sometime last year to ensure a constant standard going forward but it never happened. How the heck is this game being developed if they haven’t got a set standard for each DLC? It doesn’t matter what you’re doing, game development, cooking, personnel management, surgery and so on, if there’s no effective process in place to drive standards and learn from and prevent errors then you’re in a hiding to nothing, surely. Due to the stand-alone nature of each route, if they ever do get around to fixing their technique they have to apply that fix to each and every DLC instead of a single fix to the core. It’s bad enough now, where the hell is it going to be in 2, 3 or 4 years time?!

 

Sorrow


And this reflects like a plastic LEGO minifig whig

 

They couldn't get dc sounds from Armstrong. Ap only gave dtg ac sounds. They said no and dtg had to obtain sounds elsewhere. They couldn't record a moving 700 either so they had to get it from another desiro. They also couldn't just drop the project after spending thousands of hours on it

 

A small company can do what a big company cannot. Cheers to AP, which have improved TSC in so many ways. And now we got the ultimate HST in TSC with Dunkrez' cab (including variations) on top of the AP pack. Who needs Unreal?!?

 

Exactly. AP is a couple of people, DTG is a massive company by comparison. If AP can do it, so can DTG. No doubt we’ll be shortly getting another statement of pseudo fact with nothing to back it up…

 

In the DTG world, the tail wags the dog.

 

Given what you've said here, do you think that Blackpool Branches is the last really great Route for the game?

 

That's what dtg explained many times already. Ap didn't give them dc sounds

 

Nah, JT will release more content! DTG’s content is always on the verge of being really good, it’s just relentlessly let down by the same problems and errors repeated over and over again, the glowing hair being one of them. In any normal system that would have been spotted, triaged, corrected and then the new methodology implemented going forward. In DTG they just leave it and do it over and over again. I think it first reared its ugly head around the time SEHS released (although I don’t remember if it was in TSW2 or 3, suspect 3). That’s a lot of DLC that have released with the same issue.

There is also a massive issue with the way DTG are building routes now that is clearly killing the performance of the game (literally spamming thousands and thousands of 3D trees across a route that the player never would see, way beyond the horizon, but all of which are casting shadows, swaying in the wind and so on). I believe this is what is leading to the graphical issues we see which are attempts to mask the problem such as progressive foliage, lack of shadows, poor quality and low resolution shadows, poor shadow draw and tree pop-in, even on Ultra settings. I’m pretty sure the transparent trees are an attempt to rectify it but it’s definitely not the solution to the problem. It’s worse than ever on the TSW4 releases, BPO excepted.

 

I can’t help but feel you’re completely missing the point, perhaps intentionally.

 

You only seem to be repeating things DTG said.

All AP does is this. Go there, record sounds. Why can't DTG do that too, having a whole licensing department?

Recordin' Richard

 

And I don’t believe AP had access to the DC sounds on the 700 either but they still came up with something passable, to such an extent DTG were willing to buy them. So if AP are able to source and create sounds without access to the loco in question (tiny company), why not DTG (big company)?

 

TSW needs dynamic signalling and dispatching. It's no good having super graphics and good physics (except steam) if the DLC you have spent £30 on is done after half a dozen runs not many people will do a nondescript EMU run 150 times to complete a timetable. The JT route is close to being there but is a one off for now. I just don't think DTG get what appeals and go for the day one sales market. The wooow a 700 or Azuma dude 2002 type customer isn't the only one and many of us a are simply bored playing routes devoid of trains or devoid of anything. It's a shame because any route takes time to build so why are we saddled with this fire and forget policy?

 

That's why this forum has a thread pinned with recommended service runs that are deemed "Awesome" because a train passes you... so sad. They never played Zusi.

 

I don't quite like transparent trees! Shadow draw, I had my .ini settings so that shadow-line was way ahead on most routes, then Linke Rheinstrecke was released and there it was 50 meters out again. The glowing heads I first noticed on SEHS, on Sittingbourne platform I think. That was close to two years ago. What you said about a standard for development for new Routes should be a no-brainer - each Route should be even better than the last, after 7 years of development.

 

Zusi should be an inspiration for all simulators rail themed. Instead excuse that it's hard to make a train use a different platform. I remember looking forward to Clinchfield so much and then being late and having a Mexican standoff. Something a dynamic dispatcher would have sorted in an instant.

 

So, Jasmine, what's wrong?

 

Isn't the TSW dispatcher dynamic?

 

If it really were, you could finish RSN "Trunk Service" where the dispatcher wants to route you through an obviously blocked path, whilst there's many alternative sidings available. It's dynamic in the way that it chooses between preset paths, and can decide on priorities, for example when leaving from a siding onto the mainline. But it's not dynamic in creating paths. I've not fully understood it yet, though.

Still to this day, nothing can replace a real human dispatcher. That's why it's so nice to play SimRail, where you can talk to the dispatcher and he'll explain to you why you're sitting in front of a red signal.

 

With about 4,000 hours in since 2017, it's official: In real life I now walk with a stutter.

 

TSW signaller is only dynamic in so far as if you are late it may route a service that was booked behind in front. Had this happen on GWE. However it has no other ability in terms of replatforming or diverting to alternative route, whether randomly or for traffic reasons.

Zusi is not the only sim that can do this, Run 8 also has a dynamic dispatcher who is actually quite good at sorting things out, even on congested slow single track routes like the Tehachapi section. If a small group of programmers, well actually one, working in his spare time has the genius and ingenuity to devise this, what excuse do DTG running a so called professional studio offer?

 

Or in Run8's OTTO dispatcher, where you can 'blue flag' switches and knock down signals to set your path if OTTO got your train tied up in a mess, as a last resort you can delete the offending AI when you're stuck in a stand off.

But for any reasonable manual dispatching you first need a reasonable track map showing the control points and their connections and junctions, with only the signals and switches that are actually under CTC control, with every other switch in the yard a manual hand throw or a bit more modern push of a button switch motor. Instead we have this murky "9" key map with all those weird colours and hardly any sensible information.

 

I think they are too concerned that someone's scenario or service may not be possible to be completed. The tech may already be.in there but switched off. Zusi could occasionally lock up from all angles but that's never been a big problem. We shouldn't be in 2023 dealing with a simulator that's got no capability to re route trains.