Enough Is Enough!!!

They do record sounds if they have permission to and if the train is available. Even better if it can run on the mainline with nobody on board with microphones attached everywhere but the company needs to run a busy timetable. The plans can also change last minute and there's not much dtg can do about it. They still can't drop a release just because they couldn't get accurate sounds.

 

Not to forget, even when DTG are given decent audio their sound engineer seems to botch it - in the case of the Class 700, too quiet, an audible loop and pretty certain complaints and request for an improvement were met with the response that the audio was final, like it or lump it, aka the corporate middle finger. Then we got the almost silent Azuma, more excuses about not being able to gather audio on a train they chose to make knowing the level of access that would be granted.

 

Indeed, that thread was created in answer to the many times asked question of whether there are any services on routes like GWE when all signals aren’t on green. One or two yellow signals got a service onto the awesome list with the description ‘loads of AWS action’ included. It’s sad that on Cajon Pass there isn’t a single service where you run parallel to an AI service on the UP line. They are all timetabled at times when you have no chance of catching one up or having one pass you when you are on one of the very slow services.

 

Presumably that’s why they screwed the signalling on ECML so that every other signal is yellow. No, hang on…

 

If they can't get the proper sounds, I'd rather they said that and that they will put the release on hold.

 

So they shouldn't release any trains then? It could be a case of it never being able to be recorded. Many of the trains in tsw are not recorded. There's always going to be cases where the train doesn't exist anymore, last minute things pop up making trains unavailable even if it is all planned out. Even preserved units can't go above a certain speed. Or should dtg only include trains ap has recordings for and severely decrease variety? Once they have spent hundreds and thousands of hours making a train, they can't just drop it or they take financial losses

Even a good simulator like ats records from the real unit but due to fmod and how it's implemented is quite poor. Transitions between gears are very rough, etc. That's why sound mods exist.

 

There's having sounds, and there's having sounds which are not even superficially like the real thing.

 

Same, same! I´ve been buildung on two routes for a while in TSC, sometimes build my own scenarios or just try the new stuff, that is still coming out. Had some great runs on new "Ringbahn" the past days and eagerly awaiting for JT´s Peak Forest/Buxton and ATS upcoming releases.
TSW ist ok, but I get bored of it so fast. I really try to like it, but somehow I find myself spending much more time in TSC or even games like Transport Fever 2 or Nimby Rails.

 

Or as I said above, having sounds but making a dog's breakfast of mixing them...

 

Have a word with yourself….hundreds and thousands of hours?! There are only ~8800hrs in a year.

 

It's called planning.

 

Other railway sims with a transportation purpose are making steady progress in adding features while DTG is not (at least with TSW in the direction I want, just IMO)
For Run8 there just came out a viable external dispatching program for free (donationware that I am happy and willing to support)
You really need a dispatcher in AI mode with automatic spawning of trains to keep the mainline busy with services of various characteristics, or when on a multi player server and having a separate laptop running the DS screens is so much more comfortable.

Is everything in TSW so locked down or baked solid there is no external interface to eventually hook up a separate dispatching program or app?

 

Be quicker to build a full size. If its really taking that long to develop trains somethings fundamentally wrong. No wonder there's constant recycling and be glad of it style releases.

 

Ever heard of planning? Or are you just to busy making excuses for DTG's always falling short?

 

You can plan all you want and things don't go according to plan. Then what

 

Settling for inaccuracy is poor planning.

 

Seems to be their modus operandi. The then what being to put it out anyway.

 

You adapt the plan. Are you seriously suggesting that because sometimes external factors can mean you have to adapt a plan that you don’t bother having a plan in the first place? This defending of every single thing TSW or DTG has gone beyond daft.

The ability to have a plan, an overview or bigger picture, but constantly review that plan and adapt it as needed is critical if you work in a dynamic environment. Most of the time things go to plan, but you need a plan B, C, D in case they don’t, all of which have to be constantly updated and adapted to external circumstances.

But of course game development isn’t a dynamic environment, far from it. Bigger picture I’m sure DTG will have a 5 and 10 year business plan which will by definition include a plan for where TSW is going. At lower management levels there must also be a plan of sorts, it would be unheard of for there not to be. If it hadn’t crossed their mind as to where the current trajectory is going to put the game in 5 years time then it’s sure as heck time they started thinking about it.

 

It’s an old cliche I know, but hence the favourite military saying, “No plan survives first contact with the enemy.” So when DTG whiteboard and flowchart all these projects do they not have a spur or branch which leads to “correct sounds not available “, followed by arrows to the various options. Or is the only option we will grab what sound we can, sit down our audio engineer without even sending him on a field trip to listen to the prototype, then tell customers they are lucky to get what they have.

 

It is has been clear for quite a while now that DTG is not good at planning. I mean they started off the whole TSW project by saying multiplayer and public editor is definitely coming. Then it took how many years for the editor? And multiplayer is definitely never coming at this point.

Also how many times did projects appear and disappear on the roadmap? Livery Editor 2.0, Scenario Planner 2.0, TSW2 fixes, etc.

Or just look at routes like LIRR, it definitely was made with a diesel + bi-level coaches pack in mind due to featuring Long Island City terminal, yet it has been never made.
Or the Santa Fe F7 pack where they apparently only realized midway that they can't make the passenger stock, so instead released a red bonnet F7 with unfitting modern freight cars.

Let's not even talk about how TSW4 was advertised with features that most of them are not even available yet or just don't work properly. Let's see if their planned fixes and improvements arrive according to the roadmap.

Planning seems to be nonexistent here. Just make stuff, have a vague idea, but change it 15 times during development, release it half finished, then maybe fix some of the issues later on. Then wonder why your originally good idea didn't sell well or ehy noone is playing it...

 

If DTG really planned their DLCs, then we wouldn't get mostly empty timetables with one train for a busy route in real life, nor the same recycled train, nor even multiple different versions of the same train cough Class 66 cough.

 

Yyyyikes. Given the low engagment with their sad "Trainmas" event, seems like most people have already checked out. Nobody cares. Also, welcome to page 51.

 

DTG probably all busy playing Railroader as well...

 

I've certainly been enjoying it. They just need to add in passenger models for the carriages, and improve the ability to control the AI and It'll be great.

 

When you say transparent trees, do you mean the type on ECML? (this is the only TSW4 launch-Route that I have) Because those trees do look decidedly weird.

 

Well the last two pages got depressing fast!

I'm predicting the winter core update will also be a shadow of what was supposed to be released when TSW4 was announced and the roadmap showed the formation designer and dynamic suspension. No manual fireman either, it seems there is quite a logjam of features and a QA backlog isn't the culprit this time.

On the editor, here is a theory for you. The lack of cooking ability is fully intended. You have the editor, you can play with it and see how it works, but you still can't release anything to rival DTG unless you formally sign up with them and give them a cut. I reckon cooking will magically appear about the time TSW support is dropped and DTG move onto something else.

 

Yeah. We have not heard anything about the formation designer and new suspension physics since, so I doubt they will get released in the near future. I wouldn't be surprised if they get the same treatment as the rush hour passengers on London Commuter.

The lack of cooking function in the editor is definitely intended. It is just a modified UE editor, how could it not have cooking? If they would just release the same tools they are using, there would be no issues - but they went out their way to make it unable to cook somehow.

 

Then they didn't do a very good job, as it's very easy to enable cooking in the editor. I've been cooking my timetable for the last month or so.

 

Not surprising to hear that, to be honest, lol.

 

Then get the sounds first. It's project planning 101.
I don't start to make anything until I have 2 or 3 books on the subject, decent diagrams and a shed load of information I put into various documents and have made sure I can source the sounds. Sometimes I need to delay projects to wait for certain information, some I've just passed on because it's not available to the level I need.
I don't hand Steam Sounds Supreme a random completed loco and say "Make this sound good!". We work together with the sounds Matt has (or is able to get) and the locos I would like to build.

Information that came out on Peak Forest (after release of course) from one of the devs was that it didn't include much freight running because they received the freight timetables "too late" in the process.. and that therefore wasn't their fault.
I don't know why this is acceptable when buying a product.. Sorry your new Ford doesn't have headlights, Barry in the headlight department didn't get the glass he needed in time. Never mind eh, just drive in the day, you'll be fine. Will we be adding your headlights later? No, you've already paid for that car, we're moving on to the next one.
The customer should NEVER have to suffer because of production issues, whether they are self inflicted or just bad luck. That is your situation/problem to resolve as a professional company.

 

Not to mention the fact that working timetables for Peak Forest in the appropriate era have been available in the National Archives in Kew long before TSW was even a thing. Why didn't they just send someone over to do some photocopying?

Peak Forest is overwhelmingly the route that 'gets my goat' more than any other as a bit more planning and forethought could have produced an exceptional steam/diesel route but what we received was essentially the bare minimum (and honestly not really even that). It's a beautiful diorama with very little going on from a gameplay perspective.

Apparently playtime is less than other routes - could this be because the gameplay is essentially the same as Spirit of Steam which had already been out for the best part of a year at that point? The steam physics still completely broken (and no longer even consistently broken given the wild overperformance of the 4F)? The nonsensical timetable that is missing so many services? The whole new loco introduced to do little more than the odd banking activity?

Bottom line - don't cut the legs out from underneath a product and then complain that nobody plays it. Hopefully the SimTrack expansion pack restores some variety and fun to the route.

 

SimTrack expansion pack?

 

After the Centro 323 the next SimTrack product is a loco expansion pack for Peak Forest as I understand it. Matt mentioned a long time ago that a new third party was working on a pack for the route that at least included diesels - the last roadmap seemed to confirm their identity. Not much more detail at the moment other than what was teased in the last roadmap (BR Green, mention of 'kettles' ie. steam locos).

Given that there are no other BR Green steam locos that would be valid for the route, and given Matt's earlier comments, I would assume this includes at least a BR Green diesel and possibly a new steam loco.

Ultimately to rescue the route, it needs at least a Class 45/0 (for express passenger) and a DMU (for Miller's Dale shuttle - ideally a 104 but I'd take a reliveried 101/110 in a pinch) which would both be in BR Green. I can take or leave more steam locos unless they fix the steam physics (seems like a tall order but they've already done some bug fixing for the 323 release so... unlikely IMO but possible).

 

At the time of Peak Forest' release there was what sounded like serious talk about adding BR green diesels to the Route, with period-appropriate services. This idea appears to be locked away with the TSW2 updates, adding passengers to Birmingham New Street, functional manual steam firing, and someone's sandwiches from back then.

 

We are now 7 years on from CSX heavy haul beta which is basically TSW1 or thereabouts.

The offerings from DTG are still minimal and cut to the bone. The excuses that there is still a learning curve wear thin.

Rail simulator which was the first version of TSC started in 2006, we then had circa 10 years before TSWs first inception.

On that basis there could be another sim from DTG in 3 years or so time.....

 

As long as its not a bug fest.

 

Honestly considering the state TSW is in, at this point I would prefer they start from scratch. I would be happier to buy an entirely different version than another re-release like TSW4.

 

Looking at the timeline in the past it's wholly possible. MSFS although bank rolled by big bucks is already producing a new version.

 

Which is why Microsoft Sightseeing Flight Sim ( ) is uninstalled and I won't be buying any DLC for it.

I still keep FSX hanging around though, for the odd flight.

 

You’re missing out. MSFS is amazing.

 

I'm distinguishing between graphics and gameplay.

Graphics are like an attractive person, catching your attention.
Gameplay is the character of that person, ultimately deciding whether you'll enjoy being with them.

I chose X-Plane over MSFS. A sim developed by a pilot.
And TSC over TSW. I'm happy

 

TSW does need a rebuild. Too many problems that need fixing so starting from scratch really would be better.

If only TSW wasn't in the state it is now.

 

Also if we wouldn't have 4 different TSW releases by now. I mean even if they start from scratch, what do they call it? You can't call it TSW5 now, because that wouldn't imply that it really is a start from scratch. TSW2.0? Then you have just made a fool out of yourself by having games called TSW ->TSW2 -> TSW3 -> TSW4 ->TSW2.0

In my opinion the whole thing started going downhill when they renamed TSW to TSW2020. At that point we knew something is up. Then we got TSW2, TSW3, TSW4... You got a cycle of re-releasing the same game over and over again and it's hard to break it. Should have stayed with a single release like TSC. Then now, even if you have to start from scratch, you can THEN call it TSW2.

I assume they could do a Train Simulator 2... But then they should really take the lessons they have learnt with this one and do it properly this time.

 

TSW internally IS "Train Simulator 2 Prototype"...

I guess the marketing team would come up with a new naming idea

 

I know. Time for TS3Prototype!

 

That actually was more like TSC at the time, a new set of routes included with the same game base. This changed from TSW2, but separate TSW2 could be somehow excused by not being able to port all of the old routes to the updated version. TSW3 & 4 not really.

They will rather need to call it Train Simulator 3, as it might be confusing them with Train Simulator 2 Prototype (and then TS3Prototype will probably get a name "Train Sim Universe" on release XD).

 

Apparently they cannot, since it will require re-baking every and all assets.

 

Well they can, it'll just be incompatible with old content. Won't happen soon anyway.