Going Overground (v.2) | The Goblin Discussion & Speculation Thread

A Quick Aside:
Apologises to those in the original thread who had nothing to do with the arguement that erupted. I have requested the thread be removed.

Anyway, second time's the charm:
GOBLIN LINE!

Goblin with the 710 and a little bit of freight action? Don't mind if I do!


Ripple Lane is interesting as there are both Freightliner and DB Cargo yards on the site. And it's right next to the line so it's bound to be usable, you'd think.

The shiny Barking Riverside station, OHLE Running in London and an Aventra? Seems good.

I do wonder if we'll get a freightliner 66 (or new locomotive!)...

Anyway, discuss and speculate.

 

I'm excited for hopefully a detailed recreation of urban London.
Hopefully good ambient night lighting, and plenty of road traffic, a real bustling city.

As for rail wants, hopefully either a 66 in a new livery, or a new freight loco.

 

I know what I said in the other one, and I still stand by that, but actually if this route is offered for 20 quid, or brings more than a 710 rolling stock wise it may go on the consider after community feedback list. Still a bit miffed as to why such a small section of what I understand to be a rather large network to be done and why it wasn't done with 172s and 150s, but there we are. Not particularly interested or excited, as the commuter stuff is dull, but will be keeping a loose eye on it.

 

I loved Goblin on TSC, one of the only routes i could play and never get sick of. (despite having never been near it in reality.)

This needs to take what's been done in the other urban UK Passenger routes (Cathcart, BCC, Bakerloo, even Glossop) and improve on them.

Ambient and Station Lighting, Passengers and Dioramas and that City feel, that so desperately is absent, especially at night, on the others.

I mean, Cathcart feels like a ghost town if you look 10ft away from a station. BCC is a powercut simulation, and Glossop isn't awfully far from that.

It's short, it's probably filler, but it's a TSC Classic (I think.) and hopefully it's done justice.

I assume it'll be £20/£25, rather than the full £30. If it's £30 it needs to have something really special.

 

Off topic question, did you have to do short commuter stuff when starting out as a driver? I assume express services is something worked up to via seniority/experience?

 

Maybe we could see further use of the Guard Mode trialed on Glossop? Would be perfect for a shorter commuter route.

 

It is the size of that actual route IRL. The "network" or overground routes pass through gospel oak on other "branches" having the extention to willesden junction would add more scenario potential and timetable drives to and from the depot but i cant see them adding that in sadly. One 710 does stable at East ham depot overnight so hopefully they have that in to have a place to start and end services in the timetable

 

Not always it depends on what your depot signs. If the depot you sign to only does "express" then that is what you will be doing and vice versa

 

That would be good but as the 710s are DOO they do not operate with a guard.

 

It's almost my local route, and one I like, but it is short. We will presumably get the usual suite of

One new train (710)
66 layered in or added for the 1% of UK TSW players that don't have it
Railtours using layered stock

That said it will hopefully not be the full £30.

Optimistically, I'd like to see a new freight loco (a 92 would layer in well to SEHS). Hopefully we'll see 395s passing on the visible parts of HS1 too.

 

Maybe Guard Panels would be included because I think the 710's have them, but on London Overground there aren't any guards anymore and all the trains run on DOO with in-cab CCTV Screens (Driver only Operation).

 

Would love working CCTV screens, but I think rendering all that at the same time would murder performance.

 

That would be interesting, especially with how frequent the stops are.

 

I’ll wait until we get previews & more info for a more definitive stance on this one. The ‘yet another’ commuter AC line puts me off, it’s also setting more of a trend for shorter routes which is a direction I don’t like. No doubt DTG will refute that with it being 40-50 minute runs, this being down to a station every 1 mile & 30mph speeds (averaged).

The 710 is interesting as it’s a unique looking unit, I do prefer it to a Capitalstar, but the 378 would of added more life to this line as it could of been used as AI at a couple of stations. My desire would have been a turbostar, along with a redone 150. I do hope we get accurate sounds for the 710, as this is another area I feel DTG are slipping on.

So overall I’m not massively excited for the service pattern or rolling stock, but what I am interested in is the scenic experience of this route. It’s quite urban, Gospel Oak end being a little more green but getting progressively deeper into East London and cutting through the middle of buildings. Could be very pretty indeed at night, provided there is focus on ambient lighting (specifically building lights).

There is a surprising amount of freight action going on too, I’m not expecting anything other than a 66 here, but I do think we need a new ToC for it at least. Future freight endeavours that I hope will be taken could be the 70, 86, 90 & 92, all of them have potential to be seen in this area.

On the topic of things that could be found on this route, there is the ECML crossover, I hope there will be chance of seeing the 700’s & 801’s - similar to the Kings Cross approach on SEHS.

Also some potential Europhoenix action?

 

I learnt by accidentally sparking a war on the other thread that the only prototypical freight locos are Class 66s.

According to wiki there are 4 freight moves in each direction per hour operated by DB Cargo UK, GB Railfreight and Freightliner - it would be good if all those liveries were modelled on the route, hopefully with prototypical wagons plus extra layering from the Cargo Line packs where appropriate.

 

I am with you on this. The 150/172 era would have been a better option. The 172 could have been modelled to replicate a 170 as well as an "expansion" to add those to the EDI-GLQ route.

 

I do wonder if the cargo volume packs (the one that released today) is to enable this layering feature to be added to routes such as this with high freight movement.

 

I've always wanted animated CCTV Screens since JT's Met Line for TSC, though the only simulators I've actually seen with it working are the official TFL driver training Simulators for the S-Stock, and the Northern Lines 1995 Stock Sim at Edgeware Depot. If they manage to pull it off in TSW then that would be revolutionary (can't think of any train sim which has actually pulled it off) but from past experience it's likely we'll just get a static image of the platform like we've seen before on Bakerloo Line and JT's Met Line.

 

66’s are prototypical across pretty much all of the UK, there’s like 250 of them plus another 10+ 59’s, so they outnumber other locos quite significantly.

If we stick with being prototypical on modern freight, there’s very little in the way of getting more locos in.

I worked alongside a couple of Balfour Class 20’s once near Barking Riverside, that could certainly be an eye catcher for future engineering packs.

 

No, I went straight into the intercity stuff and it's where I have stayed since. Never have done and certainly never will do commuter driving as the whole idea of it just seems so brain numbing to me. I struggled enough when I had to change to intercity EMUs, so would dread to think of driving an Electrostar esc train! If you want more elaboration Fawx just sent a private thing and I'd happily expand but I don't want to sway off topic too much so will relate this back by saying that this is the biggest issue with this route so far, though obviously can't be avoided. Does anyone know what the service stopping patterns are throughout the day or are they the same all day.

Like I say my knowledge of the Overground is poor, at least they are doing the whole route though.

 

we cant be far off having that number in sim presently then

 

First service is 0609 from gospel oak
First service is 0533 from barking riverside (that will be the east ham one that stables overnight)

Service frequency M-F is every 15 minutes

Average end to end run time 35 minutes. So ideally you need the freight built into the timetable to stop it getting rather repititive

 

I'm actually decently excited for this route. I think it's the best Overground route they could choose. It's the only end to end one that wouldn't be overly complex or take an obscene amount of time to drive. The 710 is also a more interesting addition than the 378, although both will be branded as "modern plastic rubbish" on this forum no doubt...

I do think the Goblin line is probably the most iconic Overground line as well. It's the only one with a nickname after all.

 

The others are not that much longer.

Richmond - Stratford end to end is 64minutes
Clapham junction - Stratford end to end is 64minutes
West Croydon - Highbury islington end to end is 52minutes

All the other lines will be giving "nicknames" officially soon to match it into the tubemap

 

I would've personally preferred the North London Line from Richmond/Clapham Junction to Stratford, mostly because that includes shared track with the District Line from Richmond to Gunnersbury, wonderful scenery crossing the River Thames at Kew Gardens and includes a power changeover at North Acton and Shepherds Bush, but I'm not disappointed at all with the Goblin Line as that will come with the Class 710 which has layering potential onto other routes.

 

My guess is probably because it was the easiest section to make. Not many stations and a short length as well. Honestly I would've preferred the North London Line or the East London Line but I still think this will be a cool route. Heck, maybe we may see more London Overground lines in the future considering how many times it has been suggested.

Due to the short length, I expect this route to be a good quality although considering the issues that plagued Maintalbahn, I won't be holding my breath

 

No 378? If we get charged full price we should expect more than one train, hope they manage to get night lighting right, and regarding the aventra, it’s a nice EMU that can be used. Also hoping for a highly detailed route from dovetail

 

The class 378's do not run on this line. Only the Class 710s do

 

I generally find a reason to buy everything UK based but I’m struggling a bit with this one. Yet another modern EMU. As far as I’m aware every schedule is identical - no variety of stopping patterns or anything else - there’s no variety of stock, and line speeds are very low.

I suppose Cathcart is the closest comparison but that had multiple routes and stopping patterns to keep it interesting. Cross City and Glossop had some higher speeds and variety of stopping patterns. This one’s a real struggle. Once I’d driven it once in each direction, I really can’t see what would bring me back to drive it again for an identical experience.

Freight should be interesting in theory, but I assume there’ll be no schedules as usual, which takes much of the interest out of it for me, with nothing to aim for - just drive along at any speed you want and arrive when you arrive - nothing like reality.

One positive is that the 710 has a full size Drivers windscreen (no corridor connection) so it’ll give a decent view. I don’t think that on its own is going to be enough, though.

I’ll be keeping an eye out for anything which might inject a bit of interest, but it’s a tough one at the moment, even assuming it’s 20 quid. Maybe for a tenner in a sale I might get it, if reviews are good.

 

I have a soft spot for this line as I grew up near it, although I very rarely used it. Seeing a 150 power out of Blackhorse Road towards Tottenham parallel to the road, whilst in the car alongside it, was very satisfying!

That said, I worry this route won't live up to expectations. The scenery is going to be make or break and I fear that the accurate reproduction that's needed for the dense urban areas on the Walthamstow - Barking section (the cuttings, viaducts, Victorian housing stock) to make it truly believable will be too much an ask.
But I'll remain optimistic until we get some previews.

On the subject of the sister routes, the NLL in the 90s when it used to go down to North Woolwich; that would be a good version of the route for those who like a bit of grungy BR-style route in the flavour of TVL. Alas, don't think we'd ever get that.

 

This is also a route where it would be ideal to “chain” your runs into an actual driver shift, saving as necessary. But we again hit the elephant in the room that DTG can’t or won’t fix the save game so it restores objectives on subsequent trips to the one you start with.

Unless there is another big reveal about the nature and content of this route, sadly I see it going on the “buy later when at least 50% off”, list.

 

How usual is it for the route to be teased so explicitly in a ‘teaser’, and for it to be accurate and complete?

Ruling out the possibility that it’s not just part of a larger North London Line..

 

I am really happy about the choice of route. I have been waiting for a London Overground route since TSW came out. I also love that instead of just copying the TS Classic Class 378 they've given us a completely new train we've never had our hands on before.

However, I am disappointed about the fact that the route is so short, and with this in mind I expect everything to be PERFECT: All stop markers correct as per real life, varied service patterns, high quality sounds and functionality for the Class 710, lots of AI, good scenery and lighting, etc.

As others have pointed out, DTG has been getting complacent lately and I can understand lacking scenery on a long high speed route, but I will NOT buy a route that is both short AND broken, no matter how much I like the London Overground.

 

I'm starting to wonder if it's can't rather than won't. It is such an obvious bug / missing feature that I can't believe that anyone at DTG Towers wouldn't want it in-game. You mention the driver shift issue but, in a similar vein, have you tried creating a 3 hour scenario without access to a save facility? (Quick answer - "Dont try it").

 

so you won’t be buying this then as irl it is a short route.

 

I did think the same thing, usually teasers leave us clues for us to piece together to get the whole picture... but they've done the same thing with the German/Austrian Route which is a much larger one in comparison.

 

No I said I won't buy a route that is both short AND broken. I'll buy a short route if it is up to standard because it can still be fun despite being short.

 

With the 710 the Bakerloo Line have more trains now But for locos it good time to make a Class 90 for route to

 

If it comes layered into the bakerloo line. This has not been confirmed yet.

 

They should have done NLL and Goblin the Goblin is really short yet the price they charge is going to be extortionate

 

Well we don’t know what the selling price will be yet. But I agree doing Goblin in isolation rather than going the distance and including NLL is rather short sighted.

 

I can see it being the same price possibly as glossop line. I can’t see them charging the £29,99 for this. If they do I think it will be causing them to loose quite alot of sales.

 

I'm very much up for this route - Walthamstow-born, have travelled on this line pre-electrification, so I'll buy it day 1 regardless.

The speculation from me is the "fun potential" (if I recall correctly) Matt referred to in the stream. I'd like to think that has to be something to do with Barking station - it's a hugely busy station with c2c and District/Hammersmith & City line services, so modelling the station with just the Overground services would feel very empty. So I'd hope that this route is just the beginning of an east London/Essex plan to include at least one of c2c (aka London, Tilbury & Southend) and the Tube lines that go through Barking.

 

Can I be a really old fossil and suggest this should have been NLL, Goblin and Camden Road to North Woolwich in the.70’s, when Broad Street was still open and you had 501 DC units on the NLL service with DMU’s (either Cravens or various suburban types) on the two branches. Now that would have been something to get excited about and a Day One £30 purchase.

 

They did, they covered the gap between the 172’s & the delay of the 710 roll out. They even modified them into 2 car consists.

Definitely won’t find me advocating for Capital/Electrostars, but a 378 would have brought more to this route than the 710 does, as it could be used for AI too.

Hopefully the 710 will be used to stand in for other Overground services where they can be seen, Barking especially.

 

they only converted 2 378s and they operated as 4 cars

 

Yes, although weren’t they still running the 30 minute service at that point? I can’t remember if the 6 train requirement to run the Goblin line came in with the 710’s or the electrification completion.

IIRC the goblin line only ever needed 3/4 units running to maintain the service pattern when it was a 30min frequency.

Oh how interesting it could of been pre 710 era, so much crossover of traction to be had.

 

Fairly sure C2C are now using/testing Aventra units on their route. Would be a helpful start if they do bring the LTS route in future eh!

 

I assume you have some insider information on the price, based on this comment?

 

I think they’re assuming based on previous routes of similar scale, this one will be £25. (I’d hazard to say that’ll be correct).

I think the big thing with this route is that it’s not exactly a stand out route for a lot of people, there’s probably a significant number of UK fans who know little about it too - so then then it gets looked as £25 for 13 miles, I wouldn’t exactly blame people for being pessimistic about that notion.

You’re stacking up this against stuff such as SEHS, ECML, CrossCity etc which all offer much more on the surface for very near the same price.

It’s not that black & white of course, but on the surface of it I do understand people that look at the DLC’s in such a way & are immediately turned off.

The figures for route popularity alone tell the same story, people aren’t paying £20/25/30 for DLC’s when the game releases with 3 large mileage, well known routes & rolling stock for £30-£40.