Hello there, why there aren't more famous European Routes built for this sim after all these years? For example, and bare with me as I don't know, I haven't found it, if there's section for these types of suggestions or requests, why can't we see routes like: 1. Paris - Lyon - (high speed TGV train) 2. Lyon - Nice (high speed TGV train) 3. Milan to Venice (high speed Frecciarossa 1000 train) 4. Firenze to Rome (high speed Frecciarossa 1000 train) 5. Zurich - Milan 6. Brussels - Paris 7. Nice - Genoa ( French Riviera with Monaco Monte-Carlo and Italian Riviera) 8. Madrid - to Paris (AVE High Speed) .................just to name a few! All we get is English and German routes with the odd Swiss and the only French Marseille - Avignon TGV which is too short and a little boring. Where can I post this request? Thank you!
Probably because of whatever the licensing deal is. In tsc, you only had 2 french routes with 1 being an extension to lyon which is really long. It would be longer than the longest route in tsw. There were loco addons too but only the high speed trains. Sometimes a license means only a specific train can be made. There's also other reasons such as the signaling and safety systems that would need to be created if it isn't in tsw. I feel like a 3rd party or modder would be more likely to make something than dtg who tend to focus on the big 3.
Keep on dreaming... DTG is never going to build long routes like that. Not even in England or Germany.
The LAMP process refers… It would be nice to see content from other European countries but DTG and their associates are rather settled in their comfort zone. I for one like like to see a vintage, i.e. pre LGV/TGV SNCF classic route with those iconic diesel or electric locos, some Corail or even earlier stock. One assumes DTG have a SNCF licence having previously done the LGV Med so just a question of finding the right prototype (maybe something along the Riviera) and the willingness to make it.
Assuming anything about licenses is a tough thing to say. There are licenses. And licenses. Just because you have it for the TGV doesn't mean DTG automatically has it again for more products. Other licsense agreements allow this indeed. Look at the DB license. DTG can do basically anything. But for some weird reasons DB doesn't allow it on the Creators Club. Same with the FLIRT Iirc. See - licenses don't follow any logic excepts their own. I agree. Another LGV route is a nice idea. And not completely unrealistic, i guess. We have some fitting assets, layer possibility, signals etc. So maybe 2024 or 2025 can surprise us again with something french. But I doubt DTG does anything italian. I'd love it. But they've never done it in TSC. No experience. No reference material. No license agreements before. Probably no contacts. Also I think it's hard to get a license for Frecciarossa. It's probably a trademark or something. I'd personally prefer a scenic regional route along the Cinque Terre. But again, we have nothing italian standard gauge ingame. Except for some Rivet house assets, nothing can be reused. They'd have to start from scratch. Are there any italien 3rd parties in TSC? I've seen some routes. I hope someone from the italian TSC community maybe started to play around with the editor..
Wouldn’t really want another LGV route but have fond memories of travelling around France on Corail stock or the UIC compartment stock. Latter on the Cevenol Line down to Nimes, put the compartment window down catch a bit of diesel thrash and fumes.
Honestly, I just want a SNCF InOui train in order to be able to use it on other routes with safety system compatibility. However, that remains only a dream and it doesn't seem like they are planning on it. However, gotta say, anything featuring Zürich I'm gonna be a massive fan of. Hopp Schwyz!
One issue with adding a new country is that that means learning how to implement and program new signaling and safety systems. Austria is less of an issue in that regard because it closely resembles the German system; but Italy, or French KVB, would be a lot of work
A commercial company doing it for money shouldn't be afraid of a bit of work, or research. The sooner they get started the better. If memory serves me correctly they already had to put conventional SNCF signalling in at the Marseille end of LGV.
Absolutely. Are we destined to be confined to the current limited range of countries forever? DTG should put some money and effort into acquiring the licenses, route and loco specs, at least for some of the other EU countries. One more country isn't going to break them. How about the Low Countries or Scandinavia? It seems that DTG is in the habit of always telling us what they cannot do, rather than showing some imagination and more of a can do attitude, a less risk averse business plan. Gotta take some chances in business as in life, if you want to grow ( assuming that that's what they want to do ) I know I'm whistling Dixie here and we can probably look forward to a dozen more Goblins from the current regime, but one can only hope. C'est la vie!
TBH, where they really need to put in the effort is mastering ETCS, which would apply to just about all Euro routes going forward.
But that won't give us vintage French, Dutch, Belgian, Swedish or Norwegian routes and traction unfortunately.
I would love to see a regional Italian route maybe Trenord or another Trenitalia regional Route. Possibily from rome to Cassino. I believe that if the licences are not a problem, the route would be perfect for TSW.
Hello everyone! Thank you so much for your attention and for replying to my initial inquiry, I will pay a visit to the "suggestions Forum" for sure. Now to get back on topic about additional European routes, I wasn't talking about creating a new train which may require licensing, I doubt it, but l am talking about making simple routes. I have designed my own 3d models in the past when the initial simulator had the option for the user to create new routes or expand existing routes. I had made changes and additions for my own consumption, never to be sold commercially. Freeware is the key if you create something. So to create now a new loco or trainset why would you need a license? In Microsoft simulator there's plenty of new aircraft being build freeware or pay ware constantly, no issues there. So why now for a train sim you should have all these copyright issues? Doesn't make any sense. I believe Dovetail needs to expand their views and start getting more new routes creators that's all. It is now fairly easy with Google maps and a good 3D editor to create routes, it is doable. My humble opinion. Thank you to All for your replies!
Getting a new train operator requires a license. Sometimes a license is only train specific, not the other rolling stock. Some train companies don't want to be in tsw and dtg has to respect that. Imagine being in a train sim without permission and then players using it inappropriately. Trains are the property of the company and it is their reputation after all. Just because it works in flight sim doesn't mean it works in train sim. I know stories of developers getting fined from the train companies for using stuff without permission and had to remove content. Dtg had to also remove content when they lost a license.
^^ What rennekton said. I'm sure DTG want to get as many licenses as possible, but it needs two parties to agree. Not everyone wants to have their company featured in TSW.
Hi Rennekton thanks for your prompt reply, look you can publish stuff that is modified it doesn't have to be 100% real or accurate thus resolving licensing. My point is that a new Route is a route nothing to do with copying a real life train or licensing issues. Also, FYI, who retains rights is primarily the builder of the model of such train such as Bombardier or Siemens they could ask permission like it is being done in the past with Boeing and Airbus. The railway company, the companies..... might not grant you the use of their copyrighted logo, maybe but......asking never hurts. Cheers!
Yes. Asking never hurts. But it's still the decision of the operator to say yes or no. The problem with going without a license is you have no access to the train and without it, you can't take photographs inside and outside, get professional sound recordings or get any sort of information on how the train works. Dtg need permission from the operator themselves who run the trains. So if dtg wanted to bring Spain, dtg would need permission from each the spain train operators.
I would really like a DLC from Italy! There was no real “dolce vita flair” in the TSW yet. The previous TGV route is only semi-good; I didn't get the Mediterranean flair. But I see another thing, besides the signaling (you can learn that) that is almost doomed to failure with DTG: Italy's infrastructure (buildings, roads, train stations) is very different from Germany or Great Britain. An Italy DLC with the standard 0815 houses from D/GB would just be bad and would rightly be torn apart. So you would have to create a new large pool of houses/assets and I think that's where it fails. Btw, I honestly can't see DTG's recurring boring assets anymore because it makes every track feel kind of the same. It would therefore have to be a 3rd party project that produces something with heart and soul and unfortunately I don't see anyone from Italy.
Sadly you just have to look at the amount of payware or even freeware in other sims to see the problem with some countries. There just aren’t enough people enthusiastic about railways, compared to the UK, Germany etc and with the interest in simulation and the skill to make content for it. So while there might be a lot of interest from outside the particular country, that’s not balanced by the location itself. Then there’s the language barrier. DTG deal primarily in English which is not so widely spoken (or willingness to speak) in Italy, Spain, or even France certainly by people deep within the rail industry whom it would be necessary to have a fluent technical conversation with.
Here! Actually I'm still working on the Venice to Bologna route for TSC (it took me a lot of time because I'm alone but the first part it's done) but my goal is move on TSW in the next week!
Routes need trains otherwise they are a bit pointless. DTG only does licensed real world trains and players want appropriate and realistic trains to run on their routes. That’s what TSW is all about.
I took the Frecciargento from Venezia to Firenze. Nice train, but the route itself was all tunnels, all the time.
Yes, that's a 'problem' with quite a few high-speed routes (including HS2 if it ever gets finished, currently it's a toss-up whether we see the first train in Curzon St before the first man on Mars). But a lot of the older, slower routes still run local or regional passenger trains, for those that like to enjoy the scenery, rather than simply get to their destination asap.
Now my goal it's produce something fictional to learn well the editor, next I'll move the line I've built on TSC in! It's a tunnel only the Bologna to Florence, the rest it's a beautiful run through flat land and agricultural camps... Not quite exciting but nice!
I would love a route I Spain, if I can choose probably Madrid - Alcalá de Henares, with Renfe Cercanías, that would be doable. What would really be a dream is the first high speed route in Spain back in 1992 for the universal exposition, AVE from Madrid to Sevilla.
Thanks again for all your answers! Just wanted to point out that language is not a barrier! Please.... in 2024 with the world globalization? In Italy and France lots and loads of people speak English, I can assure you, look at ffabio89 he is from Italy and can speak perfect English! Language is not the barrier and there are many people that love trains and train sims but......if you never create a reason for them to buy into......then why they should support it? Only a small percentage of customers will go for your products. That's basically.....leaving money on the table for the Publisher. Is this a geofenced product? I don't think so. 3D content, which I have designed in the past including coaches, as a hobby, if the model is not too fancy or detailed..... doesn't take long to create, just minutes believe it or not. I don't have the time anymore but I am sure that if the World Editor gets past the beta stage you will see more and more enthusiast from the Community will start to create different small routes where you can still utilize the existing assets and signals, why not? The licensing request for a specific train is not an obstacle, look...... they got it for other trains so why do you think that ooooh my gosh.... it's so hard to get! I don't think it is impossible, my opinion. Why a manufacturer or a railway company wouldn't authorize their product or service it is after all...... Advertising with the benefit of the educational purpose. Come on let's be realistic here and take a look at other simulations, Microsoft flight simulator for example has many planes that are officially licensed from Boeing and Airbus, Embraer, Fokker and many more. All you need to do is ask first, if you have the "will power" to create something new, that's all. In any case we will see what happens, again, when the free world editor is finalized. Cheers until then!
each one is different, non are the same, you are comparing 1 to all and that’s the flaw in your statement, some want to join the game, others don’t care and either do or don’t grant legal permission.
I don’t understand what you mean by this, the forums are for English language only as it’s not within reason to need to keep translating everything the game never has an issue with language, I only speak 1 full language and that’s English, theirs still German routes in the game… and the game keeps routes to the language they use their as it would be incorrect to realism to translate. (though on a side note most in England speak only English)
It's not that simple. In the first instance, it isn't the manufacturers, it's the railroads. The train operating companies guard their liveries and trademarks jealously, and some are not willing to license them; others are. DB has proven very accommodating, but Arriva (a DB subsidiary) has repeatedly said No. And it is even more problematic with the US freight railroads, whose customers are businesses not the consumer public and therefore see little commecial benefit for themselves in a licensing deal.
If you're looking for a wider variety of routes, I'd take a look at TSC rather than TSW. DTG is unlikely to venture outside of the UK and DACH going forward with TSW. Routes like LAV Madrid - Albacete - Valencia, or Venice - Verona, damn near all of Denmark and the Netherlands, etc. etc. etc exist mostly as freeware for TSC.
But the thing is... it's in TSC. It's not the same game. I want it in TSW And to keep suggesting it helps to show DTG that there is interest in something outside the big three.
Thanks a lot for the appreciation but I have a lot to learn about English, I can write well because during this action I can think about what have to say.. Speak in English it's more complicated for me ATM but I try my best to improve it! About Italy's trains and route, what I can says? Well, the first step was learnt the basics of the editor, like terrain texturing, use track and set up objects and that's was done some months ago but... Now I have to create the Italian infrastructure (track, gantry, signal...) And about this one I'm waiting for some official from DTG: I'd like to create something with the same standard and they're tell us that's will be another master class tutorial about this... Hope not too late from the actual situation . In fact, we need just some indication for example how they create track, how to set up signal or an example to see directly how they're create materials for terrain; little things that's can be very helpful to us. If I can recreate something from Italy here, think a lot of people will be happy to try it, even with unbranded trains or some initial bugs
I think brands and licensing should be the last things to consider for your personal project I think fceschmidt was the person, who actually created Danish signals. Maybe they have the time to explain how to do that, so you can try Italian signals. And I think pilot21 actually created new tracks ('feste Fahrbahn'). Maybe he'll share his knowledge
Unless someone invests in DTG and uses money to ask them to develop an ultra-long route, as long as the money is available, please tell me what else is impossible
Ok, thank you for the note, I'll contact them about that... Especially for the signal that's will be the first thing I've got to manage
I would love to see quite a few more European routes - from more standard-gauge Swiss content, to Italy and Norway etc which would be awesome. Pictures taken by me Zurich Geneva Oslo
Boring, just put the throttle to the max and keep pressing the alerter button. Not interesting at all into my opinion.
I don’t think that’s how DTG works, though I am very curious to find out the price quotes for a personal route/loco what they could also sell on (what that could be anyways) And well their is the question on whether PC’s/consoles could take on such large routes regardless, apart from that it it’s a larger riskier, longer investment to undertake, DTG have always favoured more short term in my view than long.
Ok so if you don't have redacted any tutorial in this weeks I'll send you a message to understand that
There's so many assumptions and false comparisons you're making here. 1.) While English may be much more common, having technical conversations about things like braking systems, traction motors, electric voltage, signalling, etc. is much harder when both speakers are not fully fluent in a common language. Even when people know enough of another language to get by conversationally, it still is usually not enough for technical conversations. That's why, for example, it's considered unethical for a medical provider to use a translation app or a family member of a patient to translate medical conversations--the depth required to translate medical terminology is more than even those with conversational fluency to reliably do. You have to use medical transcription services with medically trained interpreters. 2.) Making trains is more than 3D modeling. You need to simulate physics, sounds, stations and yards, cabs and train interiors. Those all take a lot of work and are nearly impossible without inside access, something you only get with permission and licensing. 3.) The TSW community has made it clear that the majority of it wants licensed, realistic trains and routes in-game. Have you SEEN this community when it discovers that DTG did not use actual recorded sounds from a train but instead reused sounds from a completely different train or tried to recreate them synthetically? Or when Rivet simulated the Island Line paintjob because they couldn't get the rights to the correct one from SWT? It's not pretty. DTG has polled the community on whether they'd want unlicensed or less detailed content if it expanded the content they could give us and the answer was apparently a resounding no. DTG has to turn a profit and they only do that by selling what they can get a significant number of people to buy. The license isn't just the rights to the image either. Partnering with rail operators allows you to get audio recordings, driver manuals, cab images, and things that you can't just get on your own. 4.) You make the assumption that the operators of railroads and the manufacturers of trains should want to be in the game and ask why they would pass up free advertising and you compare it to the flight sim community. It's not just willpower or as simple as "just ask! why aren't they asking?" DTG asks A LOT. The thing is, train operators and manufacturers don't always think like you and me. Licensing is done by lawyers who have to think about the brand. There are many reasons they would not grant DTG a license under any circumstances. For one, sometimes company policy blanketly prohibits being included in games or other media. Some companies won't license to people outside of their home country which was true for BNSF for a long time until recently. Another reason is that some companies and operators think the risks outweigh the benefits. If you allow your brand or locomotive to be in TSW and all of a sudden, you see a viral Youtube video of someone crashing your branded trains or a mod creating a livery for your train with something obscene or reputation-damaging, that could hurt your company's reputation and bottom line. Some operators don't allow non-railway staff (like DTG's camera crew and audio people) in areas like yards and maintenance facilities around moving trains for liability reasons. Some operators like the NYC Subway do not want people to know how to operate their trains for national security, or for NYC Subway, after they've had issues with vandals gaining access to trains and joyriding them. There are many reasons an operator would not want to be in this game, and many just don't care. Being in a game won't increase ticket sales much and unlike the flight sim community, where sims are a big part of pilot learning, many players do eventually start flying planes for real, and thus there's the potential the Cessna you license to Asobo will actually be bought by some players after they fly it in FS2020 and like it, none of us are ever going to buy a train. Trains are bought by companies and governments. So the operators and the manufacturers gain very little from partnerships with DTG other than general community relations points--something that is rapidly in decline in today's penny pinching, risk-averse, and less grounded in local communities corporate world. The licenses we have, we got because they're local to DTG's community (Southern/Southeastern and most UK stuff), they're public domain (British Rail), they give out licenses relatively easily (DB), or DTG has worked with them for years and built a close relationship (US Class I freight railroads, Amtrak, Metro-North, NJT). Also the US is a little more used to appearing in media. Operators in traditional European countries often do not care to be in media and don't like working with outsiders/foreigners. I'm not saying that none of what you've asked for could ever happen, and we all hope the catalog of TSW DLC does diversify, but I do believe that the simplicity with which you regard this being able to happen is grossly unrealistic. DTG is a for profit company. If they thought there was a way to immediately expand their lineup that would be profitable, they'd have looked into it. If we get content outside of the major countries, it's very likely going to be from third party devs that may have a greater ability to take risks. They may have more contacts in a particular area, know the system, and know the language. Union Workshop is apparently entering the 3rd party program, which means we could potentially get some East Asian content. While the JRs are absolutely deadset against licensing to foreigners, someone local to the area might be able to make it happen.
Would such a route ever sell enough copies to pay for its enormously expensive development? That is, literally, the bottom line.
Right? I feel like the only way DTG would agree to that would be if you fronted money or had proof of liquid assets with a signed contract holding you responsible for paying what they would charge an individual for a route with that much more work (so more than $40 USD) times the average number of sales they'd get for any other route to ensure there's a profit for them even if the route doesn't sell, which with how close we are to coming to Kent with pitchforks if DTG raises the price of DLC any more /s I struggle to believe a much more expensive route would sell widely enough to be worth the risk without an upfront payment or a guarantee to cover the cost of not reaching projected sales numbers.
