Enough Is Enough!!!

Nor Should it...

 

If delays led to better quality content, I would own more dlc's. But due to how often rushed dlc's are, my wallet often stays closed

 

Well they did have a recruitment drive prior to TSW4 and a few people vanished from public view. And therein lies the problem, once under NDA you daren't say anything in public on a forum lest you breach it so effectively you lose the ability to discuss anything for fear of inadvertently blabbing, as it were. I applied and didn;t get considered but TBH, beta testing can become a thankless, tedious task occupying all your spare gaming time and running the same scenario or section of route over and over again. When building one of my own route projects in the other sims, by the time I released it I was fed up to the back teeth of seeing the thing and never bothered with it again.

And just because testers report an issue doesn't mean it will get fixed. I was involved with the public beta test of a very long time ago version of Trainz. Nothing that wasn't considered a show stopper was even looked at changing in the run up to release.

 

Matt actually did contact me awhile ago to be a part of the beta testing team

I "technically" declined the offer.

 

I think it's quite obvious that many errors or bugs found by the beta testers are not fixed for final release either because they are too difficult or time-consuming to correct or not considered important for game play.

If that were not the case, the " beta testers" in the forums would not find so many really obvious post- launch gaffes.

And, of course, what players consider important can be quite different from a developer's criteria. Had a run on CJP a while ago after not playing it for a few months, noticed again all the scenery errors ( signal aspects, vegetation or lack of it, floating school buses at 2am, square hills etc ) and I thought surely the beta testers picked up on this stuff.

And I used to think that we were all being too picky. But then I thought $40 is really not chump change and we really have a right to expect this stuff to be fixed pre-release.

Other than getting free software, I imagine being a beta tester can be a thankless task.

Sorry, I thought this would be a short post but I got carried away.

 

I'll let them pay me to fix the scenery, £100 per route fixed. I could charge more but I'd rather the fixes be made and released than not.

I don't know if the NDA is still applicable and since I can't be bothered to check I'm going to be intentionally vague. I was invited to test a portion of [one of the TSW releases] at a certain point in the past because of a particular issue with one of the games that I had spoken about a lot. They didn't take any of my advice, but I did get Sam on my Discord friends list out of it, and that's all I need in my life.

You lucky sausage.

 

Because far to many people see BETA's as a way just to get free content and not actually help with stuff.

 

If that's the case then there needs to be more control on DTG's side around beta testing.

 

i never said that is the case for the record i am talking about from other times i beta tested in other genres ie Flight sim.

 

I meant if there is an issue for BETA testers for TSW just becoming one to get free stuff, then they need to be picked carefully.

 

It really doesn't matter how well the testers are doing their job when DTG very clearly don't give a toss about what they'd say. There's enough issues I've seen just from casually playing that makes it really clear that the testers can't be the problem. I'd go as far as to say I actually hope no professional game testers are getting their time wasted by this organization. It would be like watching a Michelin star chef try to work at a Burger King, you'd just rather see the guy leave and go somewhere that actually cares about him than try and argue with management about food quality on the dally.

 

I would much rather wait for the extra time to correct, fix, and retest it to make sure all is okay. But as it's been said here, DTG and those with an office with a corner view, just want to shove it out the door and leave it as is. I did put in for a Free CD key at one time on a website that I signed up for, and never heard a thing but at the same time, I stopped checking the site and lost the link to it, I don't even remember the name of it. And I really don't care anymore honestly, and besides this way, I pay for what I want and do not have to worry about someone watching over my shoulder sorta speaking.

 

I know the website you are talking about as i used to stream wayyyy back as well and tbh unless you have a high follower/viewer count on a live stream you are waisting your time requesting keys from that website. i wont mention the name here for obvious reasons.

 

May i ask why?

 

Didn't know what it would involve, uncertainty, and questioning my own mental stability.

 

TSW does require mental stability, oh yes. You're always a tester, beta or release.

 

sorry, you just reminded me of when films used to to start with this

 

D...d...denuvo, Elaine.

 

I haven’t been around for a while.

Spent a fortune, on this game and its myriad of DLC. Kept waiting for the promised bug fixes, always tantalisingly just out of reach.

Then, out of the blue TSW3 was announced, and I realised that tomorrow was not going to arrive.

Uninstalled

Noticed yesterday TSW4 is on sale, ‘apparently’ I can use all my content within it, perhaps I should check it out ?

Quick check here, and realised it’s all the same just out of reach promises being delivered, see you all again around the time of TSW6 for another try.

Good luck guys you all have a patience that far outweighs mine.

 

so if it it is full of bugs and glitches why keep buying the dlc and sim them to spend a "fortune on this game and its myriad of dlc"



Oh wait i get it you are TRYING to be funny.

 

I really wasn’t trying to be funny.

At the time, we were being told the bugs would get fixed, at the next patch, and I was always hopeful and gave the benefit of the doubt

Be more chill

 

But you’re still here anyway!

The definition of insanity, according to Einstein, is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

 

FYI I don't believe that's something that was ever said by Einstein. at least not on public record.

 

Technically, there is no reason why longer routes cannot be developed. Obstacles are potential console space, development times and costs, and overall playability as it would seem many players (actual facts) prefer to drive a 30-45 minute service. There are obviously some questionable decisions being made, the ECML is far too short and contains no great depth in variety in services, MML is also too short for the HST and should have run north to Sheffield. But, some short routes can actually stand out, for instance Niddertalbahn is beautiful especially mid summer and autumn even though services are repetitive and offer little variation, the sheer depth given to the scenics and slower speeds is good enough to be an enjoyable repeat play. Personally I would like to see Exeter-Penzance with a class 50. But knowing DTG they will throw together Exeter-Dawlish, end in the middle of nowhere and declare the route finished.

 

We should start asking for longer routes. Yes most people may prefer to drive 30-45 minute routes but those routes often have extremely repetitive services and get boring very quickly.

We collectively need to stop accepting these point A to B 20 mile routes and ask for routes point A to B, C and D give or take 70 miles or so with multiple rolling stock provided.

DTG are very much doing the bare minimum and will continue to do so if we keep purchasing and accepting these routes

 

It’s a strange thing because 90 miles from Peterborough to Doncaster on the ECML produced a very boring route. That same 90 miles if they had done Watford Junction to Rugby via Northampton and Kilsby would have produced a far more interesting experience. Of course they would have had to give us two new trains, 350 and 390, but hey ho.

That same 90 miles could have been put to use doing Swansea to Bristol, again far more variety and far more interesting both scenery and operational wise. But doing anything Welsh seems anathema to DTG. And before anyone mentions licensing, could have been set back in BR days same goes for WCML and Avanti or Virgin.

 

As far as size hard drive space goes my TSW install, which doesn't have even close to everything, but does have a sizable amount of content, clock in at just under 130GB. Might sound like a lot, I believe however that actually isn't anymore than many more GBs than a single AAA game, a single modern Call of Duty for example would likely take up the same amount of space if I remember correctly. And it's not like you need 100GBs to make a good TSW route, Blackpool is the biggest route I own, but 9GBs is till very manageable compared to many games made these days. Even if you doubled the length to say 80-90 miles a route at that detail in theory would still be well under 20GBs.

Also how much playtime is done in one sitting's irrelevant to the length of a game, even many "short" games are barely playable in one day. Recently played Super Mario RPG for example, that I believe is roughly 12 hours long, not a huge game, but I wouldn't say you could play it in one sitting. And most people would be doing what you're suggesting, playing it in hour or two long bursts, not sitting down and playing it for six hours+. The fact those people have more content helps even those playing in short bursts. It's a lot more fun to have 12 hours of fresh content to entertain you for a week as opposed to playing a two hour game seven times a week.

You are correct on time and cost though, however when those are the only real benefits to their approach then its questionable if content that takes less time and money is worth it. There's a reason AAA game companies over the years have put more resources into making a few bigger, more impressive games, as opposed making 100 games a year at the same level of detail as say a Nintendo 64 game.

 

If we ever see WCMLs in TSW I imagine it will be in two parts Euston to Rugby, Rugby to Wolverhampton.
It's my local line, and I would love to see the 312 EMU and AC electrics, or a more modern class 90 and 321 but I doubt for TSW it will emerge its just too much work for DTG.

 

If you read it carefully then he hasn't purchased anything since TSW2, so that hardly classes as "keep buying the DLC", does it?

 

Fair enough, I stand corrected. Thank you.

But the statement still holds, especially in the context of this thread, regardless of its (false) associations with Einstein or otherwise!

 

Watford Junction to Rugby would have made even less sense as far as start and end points go than Peterborough to Doncaster, it wouldn't be far off Ambergate to Chinley in that regard!

 

Peterborough and Doncaster are more sensible end points than with most other routes. Ideally would have also gone to York but at least they didn't do Stevenage to Retford.

 

Also during engineering weekends and disruption LNER can and Do start and end services at Peterborough so I can understand the logic in DTG using Peterborough as a start and end point point

 

Be fr you really think DTG thought like that? They thought hm ECML, hm whats the easiest part? They do not and have not thought technically when they choose their routes

 

At least the part of the ECML we got makes some sense. Most routes, on the other hand, don't.

 

I think part of the issue too with releasing content early might lie with needing to generate cash flow. Run out of money after working on a particular project long enough (route, DLC, etc) so you release it earlier than planned to make more cash to continue the project in the form of updates and bug fixes to the original rushed/early released product but often times, never go back to the project because positive cash flow was generated from the release and now the attitude is “ehh, that’s good enough.” - this is just speculation.

 

That pretty much describes the state of the world I think.

Plenty of industries which only do the bare minimum and pass it off as complete

 

And how many of those industries are reputable and go back and update/fix their product after they used an early release to generate cash flow?

 

More than I can list.

 

Exactly my point and I think we’re in agreement here. I don’t necessarily have a problem with a company releasing something early with known bugs to generate cash flow to finish the product, ESPECIALLY if said product has public interest and support, IF that company goes back almost immediately after release and starts fixing everything that wasn’t finished in the early release. Bug fixes and alike and releases updates in a timely manner. That is not what we are experiencing.

 

Again these are things DTG will continue to do unless we stop accepting it. Dont but anything until there are reviews on it.

 

It’s all well and good you saying don’t buy anything but hey there you are sitting there owning TSW4 no doubt because YOU bought it.

 

If people don't buy it, who's going to review it. People have to buy it to review it lol

 

This person said don't buy anything unless reviews are in. Reviews have definitely impacted my purchasing decisions.

 

Exactly lol.

 

Could be people who don't buy it, like ambassadors...

 

There's many Youtubers who get the DLC for free.

 

Yes and ive learned my lesson.

Youtubers, beta testers.

 

This is exactly it.
I don't have an issue with them releasing things with bugs, if they need to. My issue is they pretty much never fix the bugs.

 

If it wasn't for the Blackpool route I probably wouldn't have, and given I haven't touched it since not long after it released, was pretty stupid I think.

Even more so once I realised that it didn't fix anything to SEHS, itself being the reason I still play TSW in the first place.