Enough Is Enough!!!

who may feel they need to only be positive because they will get it for free.

beta testers are under NDA so they will tell you nothing.

youtubers again they may get content for free so will feel obliged to only be postive about stuff.

 

In these times where many big games face endless delays, DTG generally sure manages to avoid those. Delays are expensive, of course. I think they just set an internal deadline for any DLC and then just release it, whether it's done or presentable or not.

I regret buying TSW4, it has really hit shovelware-quality levels, apart from the actual train designs.

 

Buy, play for 1.9 hours, refund. At least until Steam show you the yellow card!

 

But then it becomes a problem when you're not on Steam. You could also have a problem that is Steam exclusive but not affect consoles.

 

Yes I guess that does give an advantage. As it happens we also have a PS5 but maybe not so strange I never bothered buying TSW4 on that platform, stuck with 3.

 

And I don't regret not buying it. For the price of it I got instead some other games on the Steam winter sale, a couple of them being open ended, that can give hundreds if not thousands of hours without any need for buying any DLCs for them.

As for driving trains, additionally to NZTS DLCs I got for TSC on the winter sale, I can still have plenty of enjoyment with what I have had available in TSC, TSW2020, TSW2, TSW3, SimRail, Hmmsim Metro, Trainz, or even video based Japanese rail sims and railway building games, like Railroads Online.

Recently I was thinking about getting TSW4 after the WSR update, as I have most of the layered DLCs already (all except Flying Scotsman), but my plans have changed and I'll wait longer, for bugs being fixed and Union Workshop's route released, and of course for a discount (as my regional price is the second highest). I can still get some of TSW3 DLCs I've been interested in in the upcoming sales, which work better on TSW3 than TSW4. Additionally I'm currently much more excited seeing what's in the next video update for Century of Steam than what's on the roadmap for TSW.

 

True but sometimes that isn't always the case. Engineering Express was a recent example of that and rightly so in my opinion.

 

Please don't make up these allegations. There is no obligation at all to "only be positive about stuff".

 

I think a more appropriate phrase is that they seem more inclined to look upon things more favourably than a critic would. Not an entirely bad thing but sometimes they tend to forget that the vast majority of their viewers will be paying a premium price should they choose to buy whatever they're trying to promote.

 

Maybe so, but there's no question that getting something for free will inevitably color your opinion of it. You may try to be objective, but you're not going to heavily criticise something, look a gift horse in the mouth. You would always worry about your future status.

I trust consumer magazines which buy all their reviewed products, not the ones that appear to shill for the manufacturers.

 

Out of curiosity I've just watched a chunk of the TinTin stream covering the new Rivet pack for Edinburgh-Glasgow and disregarding a slight overuse of "it's nice", "it's beautiful" and "it's lovely" comments (regarding route + pack), a couple of things did catch my attention.

Firstly; "as ambassadors we're here to promote."...a point that's probably key to the actual role (I wanted to say integrity but that's perhaps a little unfair) of an ambassador, because at the end of the day you cannot really negatively "promote" something.
The second and perhaps most disappointing thing was the subject of value. Sure, I fully understand that if you like freight stuff then it will definitely enhance the route but what TinTin kind of forgot that not so long ago you got a brand new loco plus scenarios, plus timetables (plural if the train was layered onto other routes), plus 200g of achievements for roughly the same price....so with that in mind, does what Rivet give you really represent £10's worth of value?
As a whole though, I think these are the things that suggest a little out of touchiness regarding the worth value of TSW4

It's not an indictment on ambassadors (they have a role and they execute their role very well) but I personally tend to look upon them as a source of entertainment as opposed to a source of information.

 

And you know the don’t how.

 

Surely if you are worried that your negative opinion is going to be put at risk by watching an "ambassadors" stream, or it is going to make you want to throw something at your monitor as you don't wish to watch some simping fawning when you are sitting there quietly seething at how bad DTG are, the answer surely then is to find some of the many less favourable "reviews" which exist! There are plenty of ranting videos on youtube as well as more balanced ones.

I have seen ambassadors being critical, I think it is unfair to suggest that they only say positive things, although it is to be expected that they might not be angrily ranting. I tend to watch their videos as they are relaxing and can be informative, not necessarily as a decision making process although it can be part of it.

 

The only reason I would watch an ambassador stream is to get an early heads up on the quality of a release. I see little or no entertainment value, and very few have a real working knowledge of railways. I could honestly have more entertainment playing the game myself, I’m sure they’re nice people but just not my idea of fun viewing, and it can get quite cringeworthy watching them struggle with trains and signalling systems outside of their sphere of knowledge. To be fair Dadrail is a real UK driver so he does give out the odd useful real-world driving tip when streaming UK content.

 

That doesn't help your point, you can be negative without being critical, and you can positive while being critical. Saying "Ringo's drumming sucks" is negative, but it's not critical in anyway due to the lack of any reasoning behind it. Saying "Ringo's drumming is fantastic because it has a great sense of timing" is not only very positive, it's still critical because its giving reasoning behind why you think that way.

 

Sorry to disappoint but nobody is coming over all red misty over the very thought of somebody actually liking or appreciating what TSW brings to their lives. We're all fully aware that there are occasions of criticism within the swathes of positivity from ambassador streams but instead of being of an informative nature they generally tend to be shoe-horned in afterthoughts or worded in such a way so as not to implicate themselves....which usually ends up as a "let me know what you guys think of it in the comments". Great for their self-preservation but not so great if you really need to know about the not so good stuff.

But hey, feel free to continue pushing every available scenario to the very extremes of exaggeration in order to make us all look like sad and bitter individuals who like to sit there "quietly seething" over all things DTG. If it makes you feel happy then I'm happy for you too.

 

What kind of an NDA do ambassadors sign? Be it a Beta test or early access and when they show off what is to come __> we(I) really don't know...
What is in the NDA when getting into an early access/beta test program? See above^^
Are they asked or told or is it just a Wink and a nod? See above^^
Is it implied in such a way, that if too many negative comments/viewpoints are stated they can or will be removed? See above^^
We can all speculate, but unless an Ambassador speaks up here, we will not know, if hens violating the NDA they signed when getting into the early access/beta program which in turn will have them removed.

I suspect that the Ambassadors, will take a few liberties and point out very few items that they notice but it is more of a passing thought, (like "Okay moving along now" so here we have this new color scheme that is missing a few items but that is due licensing)
And we're walking... And I would say it's a given that to many statements disliked by DTG will more than likely have an Ambassador lose their status.

Just my 3 cents

PS: talking about YT how is it that views get removed in less than a day, my recent video is down to 1 View OH NO now what from 8, and I know is not any new revelation, but wow, maybe I should talk like the ambassadors?

Agree with ya, and I did learn some things from Dad Rail, and in the videos I make are more about having fun and learning as well as figuring out the how and why, if I find something that is helpful.
I know what I don't know and know it.

 

I guess news embargo. If it isn't live streaming right prior to release, they get to play and record some time earlier, but only can share what they had recorded after the embargo has been lifted.

 

Sooo I opened up my Steam app, first thing I thought was okay now what's wrong with Steam?

 

The lack of comms recently it looks like DTG are under pain of suing themselves if they release any information or comment on user feedback.

 

-ignore-

 

At this point I’m beginning to wonder if TSW4 is worth it anymore with all of these bugs that continue to not be addressed or fixed. I had to save and exit out of my session today due to the camera bug where exiting the engineer seat causes the camera to go above the locomotive and you lose all camera functionality and are unable to move or sit back in the seat. The only way to fix it is to save and exit and then restart the session. Of course, doing this causes a bunch of stuff to get messed up. So using the save feature really isn’t desirable. Then once I do reload and reset the train, I create a path in free roam only to have the game CRASH to the desktop. So now, I have to restart again, and reset everything again. It’s so beyond frustrating with this game at this point I begin to wonder if it’s worth it anymore. It completely takes the run out of everything.

 

Maybe that's their motto above the entrance door to the office: "We're not happy until they're unhappy". I'd say mission accomplished

 

I do know your frustration, I understand it and sometimes I do wonder for myself, but looking at what I and many of us as well as those that have been here long before me, that have invested in TSW__ would rather not just walk away, that is the vibe I get and would not spend the time posting in any of the treads here. We all would rather have DTG get off their Bums and hit the grinding wheel and just get to work, and make the product as best as they can. If need be get some fresh blood in there that knows what, how, and where to get things done, don't tie their hands, and get a good or better QA team that will play test content just as if it were one of us, no special programs, or apps or however they do it.

And I know I keep pointing out and talking about Fallout, but Bethesda is the one major developer that has released the tools to mod its games, Skyrim is one of the oldest games still being modded, as well as FO3, and as old as it is still getting mods made, not to mention FO4 that has a TV series coming out, as well as DLC sized if not a full-sized game in a mod Fallout London (fallout4london.com) Bethesda even hired one or few of the modders from the group that created this mod.
Mind you they are not being paid other than Patreon members, (clears throat) DTG. Just release the hounds, and stop holding back with the developer tools, TSW could be so much more than what it is, everything can be worked out when the will and desire to do is there.

The tools used just off the top of my head:
The G.E.C.K. Also featured in FO3 as part of the story
Nifscope rigging the models to create the nif files
Fo4Edit
Gimp
Blender see my post here
ALL FREE
and I'm sure some Adobe products were used.

Yes, I understand very different games but it shows what is being played and what is of interest, while these are just snapshots and I'm sure the numbers are or could be very different, just something to look at.
FO3
https://vginsights.com/game/22370
FO4
https://vginsights.com/game/377160
TSW4
https://vginsights.com/game/2362300

Hmm time to make room on my game ssd for FO4 and FOLondon.

 

PS4
Drove the class 40 on the WCL 1A01 mail to paddington timetable. Departed from Penzance everything was going ok until I arrived at St Austell. After stopping in the platform at the marker, the blue screen appeared, an error has occurred and TSW3 crashes. I bought the WCL in the January sale, it was the first time I've driven the mail train.

This reminded me of all the blue screens I've encountered at Crewe on SoS.

 

You're a little late to the party, but welcome anyway!

 

But bugs and glitches are totally fine, acceptable and not an issue at all and you are just disrespectful towards DTG & co. according to some people here! The bugs and glitches are just made up in your mind because you are a HATER! DTG and others are absolutely perfect and cannot do anything wrong or bad EVER! Feedback is just sugar-coated hate! /s

 

And not Morrowind? I haven't played Skyrim for some 6 years now, but checked some mods released for Morrowind through 2023 just a couple of months ago. OpenMW is also still being developed. At this moment my reinstallation of Skyrim is basically awaiting release of Skywind.

 

Analyzing what routes I do play regularly, because...balance.
Glasgow - Edinburgh. I like fast electrics, it's a good end to end and is good for a "there and back" shift. Scenery okay. Needs a 380.
Brighton - London; See above replacing 380 with 700.
Blackpool lines - It's something very different and despite my preference for electric traction, it feels......alive.
Bakerloo Line - It's not great but I love London routes.
East Coastway - It's pretty good if you have the 313 add-on, just having two different types of stock on a route improves immersion.
IOW Modern - It's an enjoyable route that's nice to dip into.

I'm disappointed with the lack of London commuter routes generally but north of the Thames in particular.
We also need more iconic traction like Classes 50, 55, 86. 91 and so many AC EMUs.
The gradual improvements in the quality of routes and traction needs to speed-up.
Otherwise my grumbles are more about quantity than quality. TSC plays like dogs**t a lot of the time but because there's so much variety I play it more than TSW.

I'm basically buying TSW UK stuff to keep adding to my electric collection. ECML's IET and the Class 700 in the hope that one of my favourites is made, it will have lots of variety. I'm laughing off all but highly reviewed routes elsewhere in the UK and beyond.

 

Is this the same Wivenswold of the NW forum?

 

These types of people forget we paid for this product to be the best it can be.

 

I agree fully but looking back over the different versions DTG have a policy of when they can be bothered to fix anything (that is if they do not break it further) then it is with the least amount of effort. Look at some of the indie developers on steam they put DTG to shame in both quality and work ethic.

 

Brain Fart, sniff sniff, missed it but yes you are correct.

 

Have we gotten a free upgrade since 2017, or is this actually the first one? I don't recall, can someone help

 

Sherman Hill, sehs, sos, Boston sprinter, preservation upgrades

 

What really grinds my gears is, that even now there is no new bundle. One is still forced to buy at least one of the unattractive routes which came with TSW4. There is still no standalone version or another more attractive bundle. THAT is just pathetic.

 

DTG said they wouldn't release an upgrade pack for TSW4 because of the confusion last time... Despite the fact that last time they didn't explain what it was in a satisfactory manor and barely acknowledged its existence.

 

Does anyone know what the update is? Its been updating for the past 30 mins

 

The new WSR has been released. That may be it.

 

Netweather? Yep.

 

I recognised the name from somewhere, then realised it was NW forum and maybe the same person.

Great sunset yesterday

 

When are DTG ever going to realise that passion products with care and attention to detail (BPO, new WSR etc) are actually doing 1000x better than the "Money in the bank" strategy of turning out new below par stuff with no detail or care in it.

Surely they cant keep ignoring this lol?

 

Are they doing better though? They might be positively received, but does that transfer into more sales? Or transfer into enough sales for the extra effort to be worth it?

I think that's sadly the problem, it might just make them more money to rush things out in the short term.

 

This still hasn't convinced me to buy TSW4, despite having the required DLCs to enjoy the updated WSR with the new timetable (except Scotsman). They need to try much harder to convince me to buy TSW4, maybe with the features which should have been there when TSW4 was announced finally implemented and some routes that interest me more than those released for TSW4 so far, and of course some heavy discount, since I'm not much interested in the core routes included with it. So at least in my case no additional sales for the TSW4 content for now (but I still have some things to get from the back catalogue).

Of course once I eventually get TSW4/5 the updated WSR will be one of the 1st things to check out. I loved driving on it in custom scenarios under TSW2.

 

I personally don't think TSW4 is worth the asking price because it feels too much like a transitional product than it does a finished product. The game is obviously going somewhere but with beta this and beta that still very much in evidence it's probably wiser waiting 'til the definitive version arrives.

I liken TSW4 to WRC23 - with the only difference being that EA/Codemasters recognised that the new direction was initially going to be inferior to Dirt Rally 2, so to get everyone onboard they sold it at 'not £69.99' with all content (along with all future DLC's) included in the price. You can say a lot of bad things about EA but on this occasion the customer came first for once.

 

I'm not sure what platform you are using , PC or console. TSW4 deluxe is £27 now on ps store. 27 quid is still a bit pricey, but it's 50% off. It's tempting but maybe TSW4 will be discounted further at some point?
Most likely when TSW5 is released. It's a bit like having the latest tech, when the "latest" version is released, you know the next latest version is already well into development. So it's a neverending urge to try and keep up with the "latest" version, which is obsolete by the time it's released

 

Tbf I totally agree. I want WSR and BPO but its just not worth having to buy any of the DTG content for imo. If there was a BPO starter pack then I'd be in for it lol.

 

I’m assuming the PS store still doesn’t show the one route starter pack option clearly? Last time I looked these were being sold under the guise of add on DLC and no mention of the fact you got the core game, as the cheapest option of buying it. Very dubious business practice by Sony and DTG IMHO.

 

The sad truth about TSW, the only way to entertain youreslf with this game is to lower expectation. Everything around goes down with quality DTG is just a piece of whole picture. This "new" entertaining business acts like a psychopath it is you who must change in relation not them.

 

I agree with this (I guess since it's the approach I took). Stop buying and wait and see if they are willing to do better. If not, well, it's still funny from the sidelines