It’s been over 4 months now since we got the very controversial ECML route by DTG, it gelled with most players, but not all. I was one of those players riding along on my way to Doncaster thinking, what if? Players have shown a lot of interest in DTG creating other sections of the ECML. I went on a rant around the time ECML released, feeling rather disappointed that we never got the Kings X - Peterborough section. So let’s say DTG released the remaining sections of the ECML within the next 18 months (a man can dream). Wouldn’t it be cool if DTG were able to add a feature where if you owned sections of the ECML, let’s say: •Kings X - Peterborough •Peterborough - Doncaster •Doncaster - York As you approach the out of bounds/portal leaving Peterborough it loads the next section of the route. As long as the transition time isn’t too long between sections, say 10 seconds is reasonable. I guess it could be a functionality similar to how the add on manager works, it only adds what you’re currently playing. Players hoping for full complete routes that span over hundreds of miles could become a reality. We all know DTG have a limit on how far they design a route. With this method of extensions in loading another route add-on, it could be a game changer. A TSW5 or TSW6 new feature perhaps?
Would be a good system for sure. Just to note though, Doncaster-York would be a terrible route would literally just be a single stop for the Azuma, and only take about 24 minutes or so. Would need to be Doncaster to Newcastle or something.
Two schools of thought... Initially ruled out by DTG due to complications of opening up a baked route to add 5o existing mileage. However that self debunks as there must be an uncooked master copy kept in the event patches or fixes are needed. So far though only one route got extended, SEHS, which DTG claimed was a complete rebuild, though I'm sceptical on that one. The other issue of course is marketing. How do you sell an extended route at full price to those who own the original? What about those who don't and end up getting a longer route for the same price as the original short version. Then there's Sony and MS who apparently do not approve of DLC on DLC. The fact is of course it should happen and just about every route in TSW could benefit from extending or merging into a neighbour.
I guess the only way would be to paywall it behind a new version (tsw5 for example). Or do the update for free, but market and sell a new loco pack that people would want to use on the extended version.
Doncaster to Leeds might be a better shout. It would give you two stopping stations for the Azumas, local passenger services, interaction with other lines at Wakefield, freight services inc the container depot at Stourton, and a large busy passenger terminal at Leeds (that could layer in CL150s and 158s etc). You would get all of this in a relative short run through Yorkshire. Build it as a separate stand-alone route (consoles) that comes with an installer/updater that picks-up if you already own the ECML (PCs). Even better, release it with a brand-new LNER IC 225 set. "Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner"
The sad fact about ignoring the Kings X to Peterborough section, which was the obvious choice really, was that they missed a trick with being able to add the 700 (already officially ignored on the BML) from Kings X on the Hertford Loop. Then the 700’s as window dressing in Peterborough might of actually had some relevance to the line. I plead with DTG to add this in future.
Makes you wonder why they just didn’t end the current route at York and be done with it. Seems terribly miserly not to have done that.
I think the same way SEHS was extended for the new version of TSW then ECML could also be extended from London to Doncaster or even York, I can’t imagine anyone complaining about that especially if the 700 was properly integrated on the Hertford Loop. Perhaps add a new carrier such as Grand Central or Luma and I reckon it would sell out pretty quickly.
I alwayd did wonder why they said extensions weren't possible given this. There must be something else less obvious we're missing I guess.
I’d be a fan of extending ECML to York. Whilst I’m aware it’s not the greatest journey, having York Station in the game would be excellent and open up to many more routes out of there.
Some kind of merge feature is something I've been advocating for in a few threads - it would give DTG a way to release the whole ECML, but in sections. This would mean it wasn't too much work in one go, and they'd also get money for each section. 225 loco pack? Doncaster to Newcastle would be best, but if it's too long I saw a suggestion on another thread about Doncaster to Leeds & York. Then York to NCL could be done and NCL to EDB. I think KGX -> PBO, PBO -> DON, DON -> LDS and YRK, YRK -> NCL, NCL -> EDB is slightly more fragmented than the TSC version, but if there was a merge feature it wouldn't matter as much. Would be nice if there was like a loyalty discount for those who already owned consecutive sections to incentivise purchasing the whole lot. For example if you own PBO -> DON, you get 10% off KGX -> PBO and DON -> LDS and YRK. If you own YRK -> NCL, you get 10% off NCL -> EDB and DON - LDS and YRK etc. DON -> LDS and YRK would be better. Retains another section of the ECML while offering an extra branch. Otherwise DON -> YRK couldn't really come, as it would be a very short section. Definitely need a 225, and would be a good option for some Northern liveries too. Would like to see the merge option on both console and PC - PC already has a merge for ECML in TSC AFAIK. GC would require a new loco - and tbh I feel a 225 would be a better first loco add on compared to a 180. Lumo could be easy-ish to do - it's just a reskin and some minor changes to the 801. They could also release a livery pack alongside with the special liveries. And YRK feels a more natural terminus than DON or PBO. Big fan of more extensions to the ECML - please bring it DTG!
In hindsight this really should have been part of the specification document for TSW way back when the concept was being worked on. The ability to add timetable layers is essentially similar in principle (having different DLC bolt on to each other) and there's no question my mind that the combination of service mode and layering is TSW's killer feature - shame that the same can't be said for routes. My view has always been, to talk specifics, that it would be worthwhile upgrading and merging BML and ECW (including the 'missing link' between Wivelsfield and Lewes), but I can't see that happening - DTG seem petrified of touching BML at all, never mind anything as radical as this.
Unfortunately feels like mergers may be disregarded as a 'core' change. Really hope they fully investigate the possibility though, ECW is my favourite 3rd rail route.
I think it's less about technical issues and more about profit. They would essentially have to make it for free since there can't be dlc on dlc.
Didn't this issue come up in TSC when DTG replaced the " branded " Bristol to Cardiff route with the " unbranded " Bristol to Swansea " extension "?
I would rather have some variation in eras than to make an entire mainline modern. Maybe do some sections in modern day, some sections when diesels or older electrics ran.
I've said many many times. Maybe I am wrong TSW's core has apparently problems and limitations that does not allow to add any kind of extending or merging into a neighbour route.... Only by rebuilding from the scratch like it was done with SEHS
Euro Truck Simulator 2 They release map extension DLC packs all the time, and people throw money at them. Just copy what they do.
Keep in mind that any time spent developing extensions to existing routes is time taken away from developing completely new routes. Much rather have more variety with routes in different locations of the country with different trains and service types, than longer services on existing routes often with similar style gameplay and scenery.
If there is variation, the whole 'merge' idea would be pointless. The idea of different eras was expressed by another poster on another thread, but the general consensus in response was that we would rather see the same era for consistency. It's not like it's all the same, if that makes sense, personally I'd love NCL -> YRK in the same era, but would have no interest in an older era. Just because we have DON -> PBO in this era, doesn't mean that it'd fulfil what everyone wanted to see in this era. I don't know about others - but I love the idea of driving the same trains I've been on on the same route I've been on. ECML Modern is something that lots of people will have been on, as will WCML. The different era version has already been done in TSC AFAIK.
Tsc and tsw are different from each other. You have no timetable mode in tsc. Just because tsc has older content doesn't mean tsw should get no older content. Plus if it is only set in one era, you wouldn't ever have trains that ran in an older era. Unless dtg resell the entire ecml again in another era where the chances are quite low
Which is a BIGGER reason for DTG to make extensions to existing routes. Unreal Engine 4 is much more capable and well-supported platform than the limited in-house engine that SCS uses. There is also talk of SCS porting their games to UE4 / UE5 as they want to release Euro Truck Simulator 2 and American Truck Simulator to Playstation and XBOX consoles. If they do make it a reality with the UE4/5 engine, DTG will have no excuse.
There is NO reason why we can not have new routes AND existing route extensions. DTG is not a small indie developer. Indeed, they are always openly boasting about their large studio and countless third-party route creators in the roadmaps they love talking about so much. But as usual, DTG want maximum profit for minimum work. So nothing is going to change.
I agree with this. It's already been proven that extensions are possible, so why hold back if that's what your customers want?
Maybe a way around this would be to release all the ECML in the same era, but then have something similar to the great western legends (may have got the pack name wrong) which has some old diesel and electric locos that can be used for rail tours.
You can have both, but my point was any time spent developing extensions is time taken away from other projects like new routes.
Considering some of the routes, and how buggy they have been lately. I'm fine with older routes getting extended and improved rather than new routes. Maintalbahn, Glossop Line, Goblin Line. I'd rather extensions than any of these for example.
Players didn't seem to like that idea when it launched. It's very anachronistic and a route might have changed drastically from one era to another. Dtg can't win really can they? Only make an entire mainline in 1 era and you've got players getting upset that there is no variety and you can't see older trains. Make a gameplay pack like diesel legends and then get called lazy for not changing the route itself.
Couldn't they do a Diesel Legends thing and update the route to fit the era? They've proven they can go back and amend routes, so it may be possible.
That is what I've been hinting at. But I don't think the entire line would be redone to be in an older era since it's not brand new content unless dtg and other uk 3rd parties only work on it for a year and somehow connect it all together and new content doesn't get made.
I have absolutely no technical knowledge on how TSW works, apart from extensions proper are unlikely. I also think DTG chose the correct section of ECML, though it were a bit disappointing not to go to York. But finishing at Peterborough and having to 'hand over' the train there is just such a strange concept and actually more than a few times have I gone to depart Peterborough and the game finish and me sitting there slightly baffled for a second or two! As much as I don't enjoy the section from Peterborough to the Cross as it is a bit of a slog with nothing particularly interesting I do think this should be looked into being added as an extension, but as I say I think we are more likely to see Luton win the Prem than a proper extension in TSW!
A ECML Legends- I'll take Sir Nigel, a preserved Deltic and a 91 thanks. No route amendments required.
Would love a 91, even as a separate add on - although if all is done in this era, it could come with KGX -> PBO and DON -> YRK and LDS anyway
I think going further up north to York would definitely be the move. Peterborough to York with the options to go via Leeds as well would be nice, maybe include Selby for the Hull services too. After playing the KX - LDS/YRK merge on TSC I have to agree that the southern end is quite boring to drive, the northern bit is quite a but more fun! I think the 91 would be an easy winner, and DTG can easily source audio from AP!!
It's not ECML, but the line from York- Scarborough could add interest.This would be an obvious route for seaside charters from York, with heritage diesel or steam haulage. I did a few of these behind the V2, and Scotsman when it was single chimney.
I think that sounds like a great idea As an aside, someone mentioned the Donny to York section of the route as having little operational interest. Whenever I think of that section of the ECML I am reminded of a trip with my wife behind ex LMS Princess Coronation Class 46233 ‘Duchess of Sutherland’ from Kings Cross to York. After passing through a very busy Doncaster station 46233 really stretched her legs running through the Yorkshire countryside on the final stage of our journey into York. I can remember looking out of the window and seeing two horse riders in a field about 200yds away from lineside as The Duchess approached right on the 75mph limit, a wonderful mix of steam, speed and a blur of LMS crimson paint. One of the horses then proceeded to rear up and throw the rider who landed flat on her back on the wet field, the second rider collapsing into fits of laughter as the first horse started to bolt, before the whole scene disappeared from view.
+1. Was about to say the same. GWE Legends doesn’t grate too much for me. Just wish it also included a 50, Class 117 and a HST in original BR Blue/Grey or Inter City livery with Valenta engines. Day One for me!
I did the journey several times last year and I actually think the first section is the most varied and interesting, for starters you have 700's and Electrostars running up and down so no Azuma only tracks, the first part is urban in London and nice and busy, then once you get out into the Herts countryside it's rolling with some hills and woods, not almost constantly flat like the later sections. Kings X would look busy too, what layers could they add to York?
York Station is Grade II* listed, a major junction, regular LNER services to Edinburgh, occasionally Aberdeen and Inverness. A large number of Cross Country services. TPE services to Scarborough, Edinburgh, Liverpool, Newcastle, Manchester, Saltburn. Grand Central between London and Sunderland. There's also a large variety of Northern services to Bradford, Sunderland, Newcastle, Leeds, Hull, Preston, Blackpool, Meadowhall and Sheffield just to name a few. Services to Hull via Selby are hourly, and half-hourly to Leeds via Garforth or via Harrogate.
Yes it's a lovely old station and it was very busy when I was there a few times last year, I rode both LNER and GC. I took a fair bit of video of those services you mention. Unfortunately it would look pretty empty currently in the game with what we have, whereas Kings X would look busy as we already have the 700's (Thameslink) and 387's (Great Northern) in the game, hence that first section KX to PB would look super busy and lively. In addition we only have a solitary modern terminal in London in Victoria, so another is definitely overdue considering the importance of the capital. London to York would be really cool, but sadly very unlikely. The 3 most most important things for me in TSW4 are layering, layering and layering! That's what makes the SEHS so good and, with the great 700 mod from CZ also the BML. I'm not a fan of single train railways as they don't look realistic.
Would agree re: York to an extent but as well as the Azuma you've got the 158's and depending on what era York was cast in, you've got Pacers and 125's. If they made it modern day, it would certainly be emptier from a layering point of view.
I suppose the empty station is a problem, but that could be solved easily, just having the Northern services (which we have a license for) would probably make it busy enough. SEHS is a good route, I agree, especially with all layers.
The problem with that is that all Northern services that serve York are dmu operated and the only Northern train we have in Tsw currently is a emu. Of course Tsw does feature dmu traction that Northern does operate but they would require several interior changes plus a repaint and lets be honest here, we're not gonna get that for ai only services.
I was more thinking of having them be entirely new routes, but then we've still got the space between York and Doncaster which would remain empty forever.
How about copying TSC KGX-PBO PBO to York and Leeds City via Doncaster. How about Germany HRR to the Netherlands that is building the 99 km Duisburg-Oberhausen-Arnhem line. Making it 145 km. Fun part try to squeeze a 189 with loaded Falrrs Iron Ore Falnqqs Coal C-Akv coupler wagons on HRR
Oh in terms of traffic I'm more inclined to agree with you, the mix of commuter and high speed is awesome to see, especially with the fact you got a proper terminus station. However driving on ECML:S is a bit boring to put it lightly. KX - PET just feels like a gradual step up to 125mph, which you basically stay at till Peterborough, and it doesn't vave much interesting scenery to pass through, however Peterborough to Leeds and York I think has a bit more variety. The advantage South has is that it has the majority of commuter stock ready to use, but the Northern bit could utilise the Northern license with the 331/195 (I think it could come because we have had a few trains that had not come to TSC beforehand, the 710 and 385 namely), as well as the 158s, and maybe some good freight runs. You can also have the EMR 170s, which stop at Grantham (?) and the XC 170s. So much. One thing I'd like about south though is I can drive past my home town :P
