DTG made Train Simulator (or Railworks) in 2009 and for multiples years put on an annual release system, with every year a new "game" + some core routes. What was cool with it is that if you didn't like the core routes you didn't have to buy them in order to buy DLC that you actually liked. A DLC made in 2021 is usable in the 2016 game. Then they decided to rename it "Train Simulator Classic" to stop the annual release thing. Meanwhile a new game was created "Train Sim World". Also with annual releases (Almost) but this time newers DLC's aren't compatible with previous games. And the game is full of bugs and problems to his core. Every bug fixes is creating another bug, every "new" game is breaking things in routes, locos ect. DTG Rhys Lampard said in one of his videos that he had to make a plugin in order to make footstep different because if he would have done it in the core it would have break something or would be extremly complicated.Here is his excellent video: . Time code is 1:25 It show that there is something wrong with the game. Even if Just Trains or TSG made excellent add-ons with it. There are still some unexcepted and weird bugs in those products. My question is: Are DTG going to make a new game, from scratch possibly with Unreal Engine 5 ? Going back from scratch would be a great idea in my opinion. And now that everybody can do their own route/loco in TSW Dovetail might just let it roll and switch to a new game. And like TSC make a "Train Sim World Classic" with no more annual releases but sometimes new routes. It would make a lot of sense that they jump to another shiny new game. But is it the right move ?
Well it's not on the roadmap, no teasers and not announced so we have no idea. Ue5 won't fix the problems if the devs don't use it properly or improve how they make stuff
The reason TSC was replaced* with TSW is simply because it's fundamentally outdated. The engine is outdated, the graphics are outdated, and a large portion of the DLC catalogue has not aged well. Most importantly, though, TSC was PC-only. TSW's engine, UE4, is very much a modern one. The graphics are modern and, outwith TSW2020, textures are 4K/HD. The DLC, again, outwith TSW2020, has an acceptable standard; at least from Dovetail. (A "bad" DLC in this game usually means "it's not good but not bad" or "I don't like it". If you want "bad", look at Rivet or the 187.) And, TSW was able to come to Console. There isn't any reason for TSW to continue. DLCs from TSW1-3 still sell - because any player who has a DLC can use it in any edition from then forward. The Editor would effectively be back at Step 0 if a jump to UE5 happened. UE5 itself isn't nessacary. UE4 could reasonably have TSW at a much higher quality - but it isn't the engine holding it. UE5 isn't widespread and, even when it is, doesn't mean UE4 is outdated. Modern Consoles/Engines last longer because they're better - hence why Gen8 is only now beginning to disappear, halfway into the traditional lifespan of Gen9. In a nutshell: No, Dovetail won't create a new franchise. It doesn't make sense.
Probably not, because there is no need for it. Switching to UE5 would result in little benefit to DTG, considering they aren't even utilizing UE4 properly. UE5 won't make your game magically perform or look better, when you can't even do basic texturing properly or set up your materials and lights correctly. The biggest problem with TSW currently is the way it is built from a software architecture point of view. The code probably is a mess, and so is content management, because for some reason they choose to barely use shared libraries. Only very little of the software is actually a "core" and shared, instead they make countless copies of almost everything for each route. Since this way of doing things results in more and more problems as time goeso n, starting from scratch would be a good idea. Learn from your mistakes and do better next time around. The problem is, how do you start from scratch now? You have basically turned your game into an annual re-release title, TSW2020, TSW2, TSW3 and TSW4 are basically all the same game. The bigger difference is between TSW2020 and TSW2 with the Unreal Engine version change. So if you really start from scratch, what do you call your game? Can't call it TSW2, because that one is taken. Can't call it TSW5, because this would be something more than the continuity of your previous TSW versions. May call in Train Simulator 2, what TSW originally intended to be - this way TSW could be forgotten as the ugly middle-child early-access version of your now proper game, Train Simulator 2. Either way, while I would prefer a complete start from sctach, I imagine the backlash would be quite big if they decided to drop everything and start over. But it would make sense if they decided to really do things properly this time around. Proper software architecture and better maintained code, no annual re-releases and pointless paywalls, etc.
I'd say the best you're going to get out of a UE5 train sim for them is probably a demo to see how it'd work. It's just way too risky to switch to a brand new engine. I'd say maybe a time progresses, 5 years down the line it might become a possibility. Right now, they still YET have to use UE4 without breaking everything.
Glad you liked my vid! To clarify this bit, I meant that core changes require QA time to be assigned where they would essentially have to test every DLC on every platform to ensure it didn't introduce a bug somewhere. Therefore creating a system local to the route plugin would ensure no additional testing would be required outside of the WSR route plugin. It wasn't something that would break the game, I was just trying to provide a solution that wouldn't require execessive amounts of additional QA time for such a small tweak.
The backlash to that would be more than a right reaction when everything has gone no more on what you have/fixes or otherwise oh and pay for this new thing… the right response to the problem isn’t more abandonment. not to mention thinking everything would be a miracle in a new franchise seems quite fantasy like, TSW was new from TSC, it’s a great franchise when it works but hasn’t got the reputation of a miracle what works well over TSC.
DTG has made TSW very complicated it would seem. Even the smallest fix can knacker the whole game. A bit like a game of Jenga. One false move and wham, bam.
A very cynical spin on a very simple conversation; DTG CEO: "We want to sell our game on console." DTG Devs: "That would need a new game." DTG CEO: "Okay." DTG Devs: "On it." Yes it was at least partly for money. That doesn't equate to DTG = Greedy. That's because Dovetail are a company, who participate in an industry which is very much so capitalist and quite cut-throat at times. It's survival.
Yup, DTG are a business, and a business that has shareholders. Their one and only purpose is to make as much money as possible.
You can make money and produce quality products at the same time. Being a business does not justify making easy cash grabs by producing the littlest effort possible.
It doesn't justify it, but that is pretty much how every shareholder managed company is run. It's extremely rare you find publicly traded companies not taking easy cash grabs and doing the least amount of effort they can, certainly none of the big and successful ones. It's all about minimizing cost, and maximizing profit, ethics be damned.
Woop woop, another thread calling DTG greedy for selling a game a lot of people seem to enjoy or at least are interested in. Good thing! We didn't have these threads in aaagggess! /s
for people, who like to jump to shinny new games and spend money over and over again, buying the same locos and routes over and over for different games, it might make sense. I´m still happy with TSC and playing TSW sometimes to be honest.
Stop complaining about DTG. You folk are lucky and privileged to have the opportunity to give your money to a wonderful organisation like DTG and in exchange get the spectacular pinnacle of video gaming experience that is the Train Sim World. You people just like moaning about nothing, I would be happy to pay good money just to the see roadmap videos as they are so very entertaining and informative and I have no problem paying for TSW5 or a new Train Sim World game at whatever price they charge, I would gladly re-mortgage my house and/or sell my dogs to have the latest version of Train Sim World in whatever form it is and I completely trust every decision made by DTG on my behalf. You all should too!!
Start again would make sense, because what we have now is a complicated mass of DLC which all seems to have some sort of issue every time an update is released. We are 7 years in now which was around the time TSW (As CSX Heavy Haul) started being born after TSC. Theres no point people saying it wont happen its a case of when... They need to make sure that core features are released on day 1 such as an editor and that the Signalling/Dispatching system actually behaves like one and can make dynamic decisions on the fly. I am guilty of plunging for a route based on its location or era but in the end some severe boredom creeps in. Other routes such as Edinburgh Glasgow I wouldn't touch with a bargepole as the QC is very bad. Am back in TSC making scenarios on routes made years ago. Certainly not doing it on TSW which is uninstalled.
So what exactly let people think a new "franchais / game" is the solution to DTGs problems? With tsw, they truely managed to bring them self in a mess which they never are able to resolve even with three times of the staff. They can start from scratch 5 times and it will end up in the same mess even the 5. Time. The franchais was never the problem. DTG utter poor business cases with introducing new bugs and not solving existing bugs, not polishing content etc is the major problem. My answer is bold: getting everything on heavy sale. Seeing your content not worth my money is a concerning thing, which im for sure not the only one. Dtg even managed to brake the only thing brings variety in the dlcs. Since tsw4 the substitution is a major mess and still not resolved. What a poor show of setting priorities wrong.
Well it would be a solution if it had the best of both worlds without the downsides of either... So, you could try and make a list of which features would make it into the ideal game from each of TSC and TSW you can arrive at a featureset quite quickly:
Seems quite crazy to think a new franchise solves peoples issues with TSW… it doesn’t solve them it just throws the game aside to forget about whilst they get to sell you another version…
Unless my routes carry over, zero interest. I'm not starting a collection over from scratch again, starting with just like 2-3 routes, and slowly getting 2-3 more a year.
We seriously need reactions on here just like on Facebook for some of these posts. Cause… (laughing reaction)
It took me a lot longer to accept this but the dev team is just too small to keep up with absolutely every part of this game that breaks and thats just the reality of it. They adopted TSC back in the day after most of the leg work had been done and that's why for the most part it was feature rich and stable until it wasn't and now they are trying to see what they can do to try and bring the game into modern era gaming. Providing the core of the game works and i'm not being faced with game breaking bugs on each play, that's enough for me, frankly.
I will never understand this whole "DTG is greedy" thing. Take a look at FIFA (or "EA FC" as it's now called): now that's a cash grab. Re-use the same base game but add new textures for the football players each year, and ask full price for it. Come to think of it, this goes for most EA Sports titles. And at least the DLC that you get for TSW consists of complicated models, with very little to moan about IMHO. My son plays Fortnite, and if he gets his way, he'd spend upwards of $30 each month to get the latest 'skins'. These skins are a lot less complicated than the average TSW DLC and basically all do the same except looking different and having different sound effects. Purely cosmetic, with no added play value to the game you buy them for. To put things in perspective: for $15 you can get a TSW loco with realistic handling and fine details, OR you can get this crash test dummy for Fortnite: https://fortnitetracker.com/locker/21301/dummy-brigade-bundle This whole thing started way before TSW even existed though. If you look on Youtube, you'll find a few vids of non-TSC players that dramatise their "amazement" and "anger" that there's a game on Steam that has upwards of $8,000 of DLC for it. I think that this is where this whole sentiment started - misinformed people that jump on the band wagen and parrot this "truth" that TSC is a cash grab, and by extension DTG is evil. Even the Steam reviews section has a few comments of this calibre (I imagine from people who got the game for free or something, as you need to own the game to post a review on Steam). No one seems to mind the MS Flight Simulator DLC though.
some are worse than others no doubt, but there is things with TSW what could be well interpreted as “cash grabby” in my view the loco addons offer some of the best value, so comparing them to the likes of EA’s “practices” you ain’t going to find much similarities (everyone knows EA is dreadful, i don’t think it cares, profit over all in EA’s case)
I find it more comes after it’s mentioned, I always say theirs more drama talked about than actual drama when comes to threads and locks.
well said. It’s amazing people will happily pay the same price for TsW dlc on a single airport in a flight simulator and not bat an eyelid. Pay the price if 2 routes for an aircraft and not bat an eyelid but as soon as something has DTG name attached to it all hell breaks loose. does make you wonder why people are still here when you hear time and time again “I am don’t with DTG I am not buying any more dlc”. As soon as there is a sale they can’t buy the content quick enough.
Given what it would need, to reason a whole new train sim, building a complete new simugraph engine, that isn't just a better version of the actual simugraph and change to an other 3D-engine (Using the same Simugraph just on Unreal 5, wouldn't be rectifying 'a whole new' train sim), I don't really think that would really make sense. Dividing a not that big community into three different train sims. I mean, releasing a public editor, with quite a couple of new third parties jumping on board and a year later saying "now, it's all new, our 'AdvancedSimuG'-engine on 'Unity'", for example, I guess, that would need some radical suicidal tendencies from the highest Dovetail officials.
Considering a previous UE upgrade in TSW resulted in some TSW2 content still not working as good as it used to do, I'm certainly not looking forward to a move to UE5. I fear a whole lot of new bugs in preserved content, if preserved content is even offered. (And I certainly do hope so).
I’d love to see TSC start again with a new game and modernise and redo all their excellent routes over a period of time, I’d pay for that. You get multiple trains and routes up to 150 miles with them, plus a working scenario and scenery builder.
I think many people here are just out for shinny new things. There is absolutly no need for that, if you mod TSC and don´t only use vanilla content. There is reshade, RW enhancer and all the Armstrong Powerhouse packs. The German community has a whole forum full of upgrades and completely rebuilt versions of older german routes to todays standards (most people don´t know even know about this) and ATS is working on upgrading and rebuilding several old UK routes (London-Brighton, GEML). TSC also has the most vast amount of rolling stock I can think of in any game. Yes, the vanilla rolling stock sucks, but there is a load of third party websites....many of them even rebuilding old stock. You can get most Kuju rolling stock over at virtual railroads in Expert Line. The last thing I need, is to spend several thousand euros all over again. I have built my collection for ten years. Sorry, I really don´t get this point of view.... we need this new, we need that new.
I Ive got RW Enhancer 2 but the game still shows its age in some of the routes, mostly textures and jagged edges around water and rocks, that sort of thing. But I still play it to death and love it. I think if they upped those graphics to current standards and resold it as a new game it would sell like hotcakes. It’s definitely better than TSW for most things, especially variety of rolling stock and length of routes. I always regard TSC as a 3 course meal whilst TSW is a visit to the chippy!
locobilly Yeah, I was hoping TSW was going to be the new TSC with better graphics, when it first came out. But that obviously was not the case.
To be fair fifa has to update every year because teams get promoted and relegated and a lot of players move about. That would be an awful lot of work annually to do for free.
No it started reasonably well with more than one loco per route and loco dlc packs. Since then it’s become so slimmed down as to be wafer thin. Single EMU/DMU’s on a short route that will get repetitive mighty quickly. Look at what TSC did with the London Overground for example, virtually all of it, the Goblin Line had the N London Line in the same release. They’re feeding us breadcrumbs now.
I’ve just purchased the new remaster of the excellent TSC Feather Canyon route. For my money I get 118 miles of track, 5 types of Western Pacific diesels and a Burlington Northern engine too, and 16 different types of freight wagons. Now to my mind that is very good value for £25 odd with my discount through owning the original. It comes with 10 scenarios and more will be built for it free on the Workshop, I can build my own too. I wish TSW had followed this business model, if they took their time and gave us real value for money and near endless replayability I think the game would be so much better received.
