Introduction Hello there and welcome to another suggestion. Today I'll be suggesting the class 60 for Midland Mainline. This train should work nicely with the newly released petroleum tankers. The Train British Rail Class 60 The class 60 is a diesel electric loco with a top speed of 60mph. This train was built by Brush Traction in Loughborough for heavy freight duties. It is currently in use by for operators: British Rail DB Cargo GB Railfreight And has also been used previously by: Colas Rail & EWS The trains were put into service in 1989 and many are still in service to this day. ------------------------------------------------------------- The train is usually a pleasure to drive albeit a tad slow and is a powerful locomotive for heavy freight duties. These trains went through a massive overhaul in 2013 by DB Cargo and again in 2017. In 2018 Colas Rail gave GB Railfreight all 10 of their class 60's after Colas wanted to replace them with Class 70 locomotives. DC Rail acquired 4 locomotives from DB Cargo after a complete overhaul. These entered service in late 2019. Conclusion I think this would be nice to have in the game as they would work well with transporting the petroleum tankers as they were quite commonly seen transporting them in DB Cargo livery. It would also add a new freight train to TSW which we can all agree is much needed. Thanks for reading this, I hope you enjoyed it. Please let me know your thoughts and feedback below.
im all for a new loco. sick and tired of the Class 66s all the time. it would be an instant buy for me with a class 60 or any other class of loco other than a 66. Please make this class 60
Yes please, would fit MML very well. Ooops, sorry LucaZone it seems my hand slipped whilst I were typing and it tagged you.
I made a suggestion for a Class 60 at the time the TEA tanker pack came out. So I support this one. Not my photo as I have had it on my drive for a while but it was on loan to DC Rail. Not sure if Cav or Alex from Cavalex Models would be on this forum but I would recommend DTG reaching out to them because they are doing a sound project for their OO gauge model and its all done from scratch. Maybe they can help DTG with the sounds. I have a book and a crew task book they can have free of charge if they want it! I hope DTG are paying attention to these suggestions as this proves I am not alone in wanting a Class 60 for TSW4 and I think it should be strongly considered now more people are asking for one.
I would love a class 60 in the game, one of my favourite locos, however, I do feel it has limited use on the modern image routes. Definitely a better one for the older routes, a BR era 60 for Tees Valley and maybe Blackpool Branches. Having said that, a DC Rail / Cappagh class 60 could see use on south Eastern High Speed (Grain - Willesden) GWE (Willesden - Bristol) and MML (various services / Light loco to Leicester etc)
Definitely, type 5 BR traction is a big missing sector. The class 56 was a regular on the Burn Naze ICI trains so a pack which contained the 56 and ICI tankers would be a big winner.
Well if my input would be helpful to DTG. Cavalex Models have just done a Class 56 in OO gauge and they have a custom sound project for it. Same with their upcoming Class 60. So I wonder if DTG could contact Cavalex Models with a possible business deal and they could do both a Class 56 and a Class 60 for TSW4? I know Cavalex Models are a model train maker and they don't do games but DTG could pay them to use the sound resources and technical data to make these two packs as realistic as possible, As for the ICI tankers. if they cannot use the ICI branding. They could just put DTG on the sides of the tankers and Community Creations could make a branding patch for them to get around the trademark restrictions legally.
For a starter pack. A DB Cargo Class 60 pack would be best to start off with as DTG are permitted to use the DB brand without issues. At the moment, I don't think DTG are allowed to use the DC Rail, GBRF or Colas at the present time and this is why there are no Class 70's either up to yet. So I think if we are to see a Class 60 soon. DB Cargo would be the way forwards. That would grant EWS as well as DB Cargo.
I don't think the dB 60 has a lot of use within game. It's not common between Peterborough and Doncaster, Acton and Reading, or any of the Southern or ScotRail region routes. It would only have a use on a limited section of the Midland Mainline. A BR era 60 would have far more use, as would a DC one if they obtain a license (not having one at the moment doesn't mean they can't get one, after all they didn't have the LNER one before getting it for the ECML
What about DTG doing two packs then? One for DB which could cover more routes if based around 2013-2016 era and the second pack could be BR. I did see DB Cargo Class 60's around Doncaster on engineer trains around 2013/2014ish so the ECML could be used on that pack and what about the Rectory Junction to Lindsey workings that DB Cargo had because Colas took over? The DB Cargo Class 60's could be utilised for that and the Midland Mainline. Although I would welcome a BR era as pack 2. I would also love to see a DCR Class 60 pack as well as GBRF liveries but unless DTG can get the licence for either operator. It's only DB and BR that can be done.
I wouldn't bother having only 66 if it had at least other company liveries layering everywhere, because only seeing EWS on almost each route is kinda awkward. But considering how many times I have driven that loco, something else would be welcome.
Yes I agree dB 60s worked engineers around Doncaster, but with hardly any engineers wagons (only the MFA is modern enough) they aren't really worth modelling. Personally I would hate to see the DB 60 just randomly appearing on class 66 workings which is probably what would happen. I guess it'd a matter of opinion, but I do think a DCR 60 with blue JNA wagons would be a perfect pack if they can get a license. If there is appetite within dtg to try for another license is another question though.
If you need to get sound. You can always have a word with Cav and Alex from Cavalex Models as they are doing a custom sound pack. Also there is Legomanbiffo that does a nice DCC sound pack and there is also Armstrong Powerhouse. I hope this helps. Just reach out to them DTG, I am sure something will work out. Or maybe DB, DC Rail or GBRF will allow you to record one. This is be an epic pack and if DTG decide to make two packs of a Class 60 add-on. One for DB and one for BR. I will buy them and I am dropping these ideas to them like this because it will become more viable from a business perspective. Also we will have a higher chance of getting our wish with this Class 60 coming to TSW 4 as well.
With the recently news of what is coming out for TSW 4 this year. Let's manifest this Class 60 pack and will it come out as an add-on this year. I know I will enjoy it on the heavy freight workings as I love something harder than passenger trains.
I wonder why they make new routes, new trains, new steam locos but never a new freight locomotive? Maybe they're just trying to wait for a peak year where everything's at its best, they release a new modern freight loco, everyone's happy and yay TSW will live for a long time. Could be wrong and silly though lol.
My guess is because the routes available in tsw at the moment rely on the class 66 and nothing else. The exception being GWE which uses 59s as well. Generally the 60s don't operate over the Peterborough to Doncaster section of the ECMl, or any part of SEHS. They only operate over a limited section of MML (Nottingham to Sheet Stores Junction). The only exception being the DC class 60 which operates over GWE and MML more frequently. The same goes for the 68/70. They are the mainstay of WCML freight and over the South Western Mainline. I guess if we ever get the WCML a class 70 and 66 could feature. Sadly if you venture out to Peterborough and spend the day watching freight it is 66 after 66 after 66. Doesn't help with getting variation in the game, but it's unfortunately the true rail scene on the routes in game. Now if course with the fife circle coming, a DRS 68 could appear on a ScotRail MK2 stock train, depending when the route is set. Let's hope that a future route will enable a realistic operation for a new freight loco.
If they can't get other trains then they sould gave us more class 66 variants, because all except engineering express pack are the same, i just have enough of seeing ews 66 over and over again.
Totally agree, at the very least we could see the DB red 66 used again, but Freightliner and GBRf would also be good.
Class 60's do not operate on the ECML between Peterborough and Doncaster? . Here is a photo of 60063 just outside of Grantham around 2013. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gibbo53/10727900973/ So there are two routes that could utilise the Class 60 in TSW 4 as a minimum. What about the Westerleigh to Robeston tanks? Does that not run near to Reading? Or am I thinking of another working? If so, it could use the GWE route. I know it would fit in well with the time set 2013-2021 at least and would cover three routes. Then we have Railtours that could utilise the Class 60 as well. So there is scope and its a nice addition to the Class 66's that is now becoming overused. Another working that would get around the DTG licensing issues is that DC Rail would hire some DB Class 60's for the granite trains that would allow for VTG blue hoppers and DB Class 60's on the front. I know its stretching out the DB Class 60's to borderline semi-fictional unless DC Rail would be kind enough to allow DTG to work with them and sell them a licence. It's the only legal way around it.
ECML is set in 2019-2023ish and by this point no 60s ran regularly between Peterborough and Doncaster. The robeston tanks are Bristol way so only the theale tanks would come close, they skirt reading west and don't come into Gwe. I'm not saying a class 60 has never run on our routes, just not in the timeframes we have the routes set in.
More recently I went past a DC 60 between Peterborough and Doncaster. They are certainly about the area, though sadly not regularly due to the low numbers in service.
And this is why I was saying for me, the DC 60 is currently the only sensible option beyond a br 60 for Tees Valley. By the time the Azumas came in DB 60s had been pretty much ousted from anything other than the Boston Steel workings or Lindsay/humber Tanks in the Eastern Region, and didn't venture any further up the GWML than Reading from the Bristol Direction. There may be an odd record of a 60 working an engineers train, within the timeframe of the routes (the 60/66 RHTT on MML being an example), but in the main the only 60s to work within time period on the modern routes are the DC 60.
I think in light on the limitations of the available rolling stock. It would be likely more viable for DTG to do 2013-2021 like we have with the EMT HST's and 158's as it would fit more in around 2017 but the Azuma's entered service with LNER in 2019 that was 2 years after I left England and came back to Northern Ireland. I remember the traction being Class 91's and HST's with VTEC as well as the few HST's from EMT at the time which was fun. But I would like to see Cappagh/DC Rail come out on TSW 4 in this Class 60 pack which would be nice as I like the sleek blue livery on 60028 and this would allow DTG to add the new light boxes into theirs as well. But if DC Rail do not grant DTG permission or a licensing agreement cannot be made. There is two options to hand The first option is to do a DB Cargo/EWS Class 60 pack that would be from 2005-2023 including EWS and DB Schenker in the mix to make it viable. We can have the yellow wipacs and the black wipacs on the EWS 60's that could be preset to setvars when the fleet number is selected in the menu when spawning a train or something. The second option is to have a BR era pack that would cover British Rail era and the shadow operators like Mainline, Loadhaul and Transrail for the collection. This would add the Class 60 to most routes in TSW that are available and would be just as viable. Personally though and the sake of time zones. This would be better off as a second pack of Class 60's and rolling stock that could be included could be something like the granite hopper JGA's and the TDA tanker wagons for the fuel trains. This would not only add two new wagons into the game but that would give to possibility to add more freight layers into other routes as well. For me, its much more than just getting my paws on one of the most coolest heavy freight diesel locomotives, its about being given the opportunity of doing new and exciting freight workings in the process as well. I am also factoring in the ROI that any developer would want to see from the potential addon to make it genuinely viable to be done and give them an indication of how popular would a new Class 60 with 1 to 2 new wagon types that could come with this pack to increase maximum playability, enjoyment would be and most importantly, the return on investment for the developer too ,
Personally I'd rather they stuck the class 60 in BR era for Tees valley and allowed creators club to deal with EWS/DB. But as you rightly say, getting the class 60 would be cool. I just hope it's done well and doesn't just sub in for 66s randomly if it does come onto ECML. I mean, a class 60 on containers would be very irregular.
The only workings I remember where I used to see a 60 on the ECML was on the Rectory Jcn to Lindsey Oil Refinery. but that would be about it apart from engineering trains and maybe the odd rail tour, but I think it would be safe to say that the 66 with containers would be unaffected. There is the Lindsey Jarrow working but I think that would only be seen just north of Doncaster. Who know, maybe if the ECML gets an extension to York or Newcastle even. Maybe that could unlock the DRAX workings with a GBRF 60 and the mentioned Lindsey Jarrow working. Also if they do an extension on Doncaster to Newcastle and include the Class 91 for the ECML, and an MML extension from Nottingham to Lincoln like what Just Trains did on the TSC route with a Class 153/156 included, then that could extend the workings on the Kingsbury to Lindsey/Humber for the Class 60 as a layer and AI traffic. I too would like a BR Class 60 pack as well because we could use 60004 Lochnagar on the coal hopper workings as well as 60044 Mainline as Ailsa Craig.
Definitely, if the ECML went to Newcastle the 60 in DB could also feature on the tees yard steel workings too. As you rightly say the rectory tanks was pretty much the only regular 60 working on the route between Peterborough and Donny, although I believe this now goes via Newark on the crossing not via the ECMl. I really hope for a class 60 one day, but hope it's set in an authentic way, i.e. on a route that has actually made use of them in the time frame of the route.
It's always new route, new train, new route, new country, new system, new everything but never a new modern UK freight loco...
Sadly the UK doesn't have many Freight locos. EWS/DB use 99% 66s (60s where used on fuel trains to Kingsbury/theale/Jarrow and Westerleigh as well as some stone workings around Warrington). GBRF are pretty much entirely 66 and Freightliner use 70s on Southampton liners, 90s on Felixstowe liners and 66 on pretty much everything else. drs use 88s on WCML liners, 68s in nuclear traffic and again, 66s on a lot of other freight. We now have some of the drs 66s in game too. Unfortunately most of the locos which aren't 66 just don't operate regular flows over any of the routes within the game. (The Lindsay - Rectory jn tanks being probably one of the only 60 turns over the ECMl but that's no longer 60 since going over to colas). The colas 70 is probably one of the only locos to really venture into any of the routes we currently have in the time they are set. Its unfortunate that the UK freight scene is very bland in using 99% 66s. There is probably close to 300 active class 66s in the UK, 10 class 88s, 20 FL class 90s (plus maybe 4 DB ones at any one time until last year), 15(ISH) Fl 70s, 17 colas 70s and about 20-25 60s across 3 operators. Then you have maybe 15 class 56s plus a small number of older loco types doing "odd" workings here and there. As such any driver who drives the routes we have will tell you, a freight they see will 99% be a 66 of some description.
Of course I am talking 2019-2023 period, the further you go back the more variety you have, but our more recent routes are not set further back in time. (ECML/BCC/Scottish routes etc.)
Let's not forget that the Class 60 will also likely be compatible with other future routes like Bristol to Cardiff could likely become a future release as well as the possibility of a Leicester to London route expansion and the possibility of a Nottingham to Lincoln extension. But what if the game could handle much longer routes? Would it be eventually possible to do a full run of the Kingsbury to Lindsey in a Class 60 should Lincoln to Cleethorpes be implemented and Derby to Birmingham via Tamworth that is close to Kingsbury be done at some point too? That would allow layers to be added and there is a lot of potential for the Class 60 pack to implemented now and in the future routes released. Also the Derby to Birmingham section of the MML expansion could include a DTG branded Class 170 in Cross Country colours as that would alleviate any copyright infringement violations. Not ideal I know, but we would have a Class 170 for that section. If London to Leicester section of the MML was done, we could do a Class 60 set in 2014 going from Colnbrook to Lindsey under DB branding without complications and it will get well with the EMT trains also.
Excellent, if/when we get that route, would be the perfect timing to add the class 60 (the perfect route would be Birmingham to Derby/Nottingham (including east midlands gateway route) as that would give the 60s plenty of leg work for Kingsbury tanks and the Boston Steel as well. However, at present, we don't have that route for the 60. It would be like releasing a TFW 756 unit and saying "the route will come later". No point having the unit without the route to run it on.
To be honest mate. The Class 756 is a different situation to the Class 60. As the Class 60 would fit on the MML from Derby to Nottingham and ECML between Grantham and Newark for the DB era and more routes could be covered for the BR era. That would make two packs for the Class 60 as Volume 1 and 2.
The 60 hasn't run between Grantham and Newark since the Azumas have been around.. I accept the short section between sheet stores junction and Nottingham however (they don't generally go Nottingham - Derby as that means a run/round at Chaddesden yard.) I fully support a BR era 60 anyway, would be fab on Tees Valley, and those who desperately want a DB 60 can use creators club. I'm not sure I'd invest in a DB 60 given how short the current available route is for them realistically.
That's fine and respect your views mate. But as for realism, if you own the Class 20 and Class 31 as well as the Trans-Pennine Northern add-ons. On MML, they spawn BR Blue and BR era trains around Derby in the yard like the Class 31, Class 37, Class 47 etc which are the wrong era but it's better than nothing. Either way. I am buying the Class 60 add-on as I used to use them regularly through Nottingham right up to 2017 when I was living in England so its memories for me.
Yes and it's extremely frustrating. It ruins the immersion for me seeing BR Blue era stuff appear in sidings etc, where they shouldn't appear, just like seeing top and tailed 33s on the SEHS Railtour (since there is only 1 of them irl)
I got to agree on that but from the views of DTG, they are utilising the assets from other add-ons to populate the yards that would otherwise look abandoned to some extents. Not ideal from a realistic point of view but it will be eye candy to those that treat this as a game rather than a simulator. It's kind of like Gran Turismo 6 which has Le Mans cars from different eras racing on the same La Sarthe race track. Not fair when the Sauber Mercedes wins all the time and the hybrids come last! Hope that makes sense, but it is what it is and as for the Class 60, it will be an add on I will invest in as I consider myself a games investor as well as a player.
Let's hope we can both be happy and get the dB 60 along with a suitable route. I'm sure a South Wales (Swansea - Bristol Parkway perhaps?) Route would really suited the class 60 through Severn tunnel on the theale tanks etc.
