Dissapointing Rolling Stock In New Routes

Banning users for complaining is absolutely unacceptable and should never be allowed to happen. I am very grateful that DTG actually allow criticism on their forums; the forums are probably the most consistently respectable thing about them.

While the rest of this isn't aimed towards you, I think it's worth pointing out what 'lazy' is meant to mean in this context. I haven't actually called DTG lazy on this thread, but it's worth noting that accusations of laziness are aimed at the company on the whole and not individual employees, who I don't have a problem with. In fact, if I was an employee of DTG who saw what state my work was being released in I'd probably be just as angry as the people who complain all the time such as myself. In the early days of TSW I was very positive, naively so. When the Rush Hour Update of Doom I for some reason defended them, and there are other older examples. Afterwards though I became much more cynical and less confident with DTG's abilities as a company to develop the game.

The 'minimum viable product' argument is something I don't understand. Yes, it is something that is absolutely a part of DTG's business, but that doesn't mean it should be our problem. A relationship with a business is formed of the fight between the needs of the company (to reduce costs and increase profits) and the consumer (to get the best product at the best price). Minimum viable product does not cut it for the consumer, for good reason. There's a reason why it's the 'minimum' - it's the absolute least they can do to have 'done' the project, but nothing more. For £30, that isn't good enough. DTG may be perfectly okay with it (as you'd expect) but if you want them to make better things the simple answer is to not buy things at full price, or at all. I haven't bought a DTG DLC for Train Simulator or TSW at full price for a number of years and I have no plans to change that.

 

They do whatever they think will make them the most money, which at this point seems to be making short, one train routes and once finished move onto the next one. That's not laziness, it's a business decision by management. Making a business decision based on what will make the most money isn't laziness.

 

It IS laziness though, because you are coming up with ways to maximalize profits by minimizing effort, while throwing out artistic and creative passion out the window. Just because it is justifyable by business gains, it does not make it less lazy.

 

at least older double stock wagon or whatever stock other than current one is REALLY needed
i usually have no complaint on using same trains multiple times but... come on.

 

Every business is lazy then. All they do is look to maximise profits with as little effort as possible.

Also, we have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, all we see is the end result. As fat as we know, every DTG employee in the route building process does everything possible to make a route complete.

Honestly, the attitude they are lazy purely because they don't meet your expectations is disgusting. Surely there's a better use of your time.

Making money with little effort isn't laziness, which I have knowledge and experience of.

 

You feel free to create your'e own content if you think DTG does not enough meet your'e expectations.... If your'e finished you can complain in a fair amount and than you know if its lazy or not... Otherwise you can better stop to say such things.

 

I don't think that people claiming that DTG are lazy mean it as an insult to the individual developers at DTG, but instead towards those at the top who are actually making decisions.
I don't think some random developer who got hired earlier this year is the person who made the decision behind not including anything else with the goblin line (no new freight livery or wagon for extra variety), or cutting ECML at Doncaster rather than going to York.
Personally I dont see TSW as good value for money, and instead of buying TSW4 on sale during the Christmas sale I instead starting looking towards ZUSI and simrail which seem to be better in many ways.

 

You commute 5 days/week to work and your train is always late. You decide one day that enough is enough and you start writing as many complaints as you can so they get a feel of how it is for you.
How would you find the answer if a customer representative will tell you to first start driving a train to see how at is and then maybe you are entitled to complain?

Answers like yours are selfish and have no basis. You simply look at yourself, you see that you are happy with the product and decide that others should be too and in order to express an opinion about something we all need to be pilots, astronauts, doctors, subject matter experts, CEOs etc.
[Removed]

 

Late trains is down to poor management. Compared to many on this thread who confuse that with laziness.

And refrain from telling people to grow up, that's insulting.

 

Agree to a point that late trains are down to poor management, but having worked in British Rail's Safety team I can confirm that passengers, animals, trespassers, inclement weather, lack of funding, staff sickness and any number of totally random events also cause delays.

Also agree about telling people to grow up. Treat others in the same way you expect to be treated.

 

Do people not know how to make the difference between a concept and an isolated case (example)?
One could have have used chocolate as an example, that is not the point. Focus on the concept, the idea behind the example itself!

Growing up has made all of us wiser, or it should have done it. It´s part of the evolution. I want you to be wiser.

 

Kinda funny, that's exactly what I was told, however, I was already working there, and my complains about the railway in general went up astronomically AFTER getting a job there. Still enjoyable though.

 

Even if we no longer get 3 types with each new route (as it was with GWE), it would be perfectly acceptable (in my own opinion) if we had a decent flurry of locomotive dlc to fill applicable gaps in the realistic rolling stock variety on each line. Some examples are...

GWE
Class 57 & night riviera coaching stock
Class 59/0 & 59/1
Class 60
Class 165/1
Class 180
Class 332
Class 360/2

WSR
Class 14
Class 35
Class 115

NTP
Class 25
Class 123
Class 124
Class 128
Class 141

ECW
Class 171
Class 377 variants

TVL
Class 56

IoW
Class 03
Class 05
Class 485 & 486

CCL
Class 318

WCL
Class 43 Valenta
Class 50

MML
Class 156
Class 222

BML
Class 455

ECML
Class 91 & Mk4s

These are a good selection of missing types that would massively benefit empty routes as well as provide several opportunities for layering (with minor variations/changes where necessary).

I am staggered at the vast number of missed/untaken opportunities on the UK routes alone, being sure that other routes are similarly neglected in this way.

 

I would make only one correction/amendment to your list. A Class 442 in BML would be brilliant. As would a 4-VEP (Class 423 "slammer") I'd love a backdated version of the route.

 

Please temper your'e way of writing... Calling people selfish and other opions have no basis is not respectful..... You can have an other opinion thats okay but calm down and breathe....

And say "grow up" is the same oversized writing....

 

So, you can tell others to refrain from complaining however when you are called out you get offended.
Only you know what "fair" is referring to but somehow others must abide by it.
Your democracy sounds something like: "You are free to do what I tell you".

No further comments, your Honor.

 

But to tell someone to make it themselves makes no sense. I see similar comments like this when someone can't come up with a valid counter argument. I don't think the word lazy is a inappropriate word to use for DTG upper management but at least and there was an explanation as to why some believe that DTG is lazy.

As customers, it is not our responsibility to be sympathetic to a business who is asking us for money. I fail to understand why some here get so defensive of this company when some individuals use words that they don't like. It is clear as day that DTG upper management cut corners to maximize proftis. Some see that as a lazy practice. That is not an invalid opinion to have and I highly doubt that the people here who have used the word lazy as Ewan0025 has said are using that at as an insult to the individual devs. There is no need to get worked up or defensive about that.

We are not required to be an expert in the inner workings of DTG to have an opinion.

 

Exact! You dont need to be happy with every release and kiss there feets but a little respect and accepted that DTG is a company that have to earn money and can not accept all questions and arguments about the quality... They level a part that for the company is acceptabel to earn money and keep the community a live.... Its not a free labor project...

 

But the issue is that the company regarded level of an acceptable product seems like the bare minimum. As I said previously I love the game and I want to see it do well. It just seems like DTG don't want the same and the bare minimum seems to be pushed to us when we know they can do better.

And if people don't want to support that then they shouldn't and its well within peoples right to say that the quality falls short of their expectations because its their money they're spending? Because they want DTG to get it right. We wouldn't be on here talking about it if we wanted the company and game to fail. And its frustrating for a lot of people because DTG seem to plug their fingers in their ears.

 

I am aware that this isn't a free labor project but we are not obligated to make excuses or get up in arms when someone criticizes DTG. Feedback will be positive, negative and harsh. Customers are not obligated to be respectful to a company that fails to live up to what they advertise over and over again. That may not be fair by some but then again, this a a company thst is asking for our money. If expectations are not met, then a customer has every right to call them out. I do think that there are times when a individual may take criticisms over the line but calling a company lazy shouldn't cause some here to get worked up. There are far worse things that someone can call DTG.

Speaking of free labor projects, there are many modders that release stuff for free that often are better than the work done by a multi million dollar company both in TSC and TSW.

This thread was created because new routes have come with less rolling stock. Often times it is one new train. It is disappointing that we don't get more brand new rolling stock or Loco Dlc's compared to the days of tsw2020/tsw2. Some believe that DTG have gotten lazy. It may not be a nice thing to say, but I wouldn't get up in arms over that nor is that a totally invalid opinion to have

 

You can be critical thats okay but be respectful please... It brings nothing to be unfriendly and written such things as lazy or insult other users they have an other opion. If written in this way its noting different than being rude and use insulting to users of DTG. Your'e point is what it is.

 

It's a good thing I do create my own stuff then, so I shall continue to complain.

 

I was talking about a finalised loco not a repaint so nobody have ever done this here on the forums....

 

Umm, no. There are plenty of companies, studios and developers who actually put effort into their products and services. Stop normalizing corporate greed, lol. The two (making good products and turning a profit) CAN coexist, has done so for centuries now and still does in many occasions. Those who lazily try to get away with the bare minimum will usually slowly die or at best case just barely stay afloat.

DTG is the content producer, I am merely the consumer. I don't have to prove anything by making my own content to show DTG how it's done. I can have my own opinion and I am allowed to provide feedback. Or do you never criticize anything you buy and use?

 

Sorry if you read my answers above there you have your'e answer. This discussion is a little on repeat now.....

 

My anecdotal score in this titanic struggle is:

Critics ( Hawks ): 41

Apologists ( Doves ): 41

I'll break the tie by saying that I don't believe we're getting as good a value with rolling stock as we were in the beginning with SPG and the other early routes. Just my opinion as someone who's been here from the beginning.

I think the apogee for stock was probably Rush Hour. I'm thinking in particular of BML and BPE. Since then DTG seem to have made a conscious decision to go with minimal locos and/or multiple units ( routes are another matter entirely ). It seems this paradigm will continue through 2024 at least.

$40 is not chump change these days and, since DTG's stock policy is not going to change, I think the answer to the value conundrum is to shop the sales or bundles exclusively which is what I've done ever since Rush Hour.

 

It seems we are among the longest serving active forum members!
I would agree that things have gone pretty much downhill since Rush Hour, which was effectively TSW’s last, best, most comprehensive rolling stock collection in a single bundle.

 

It’s not maximalizing return while minimizing effort; it’s, maximalizing return while minimizing costs.

 

To maximize profit? Or simply to make any profit at all, as opposed to a loss?

 

The $40 price tag really puts things into perspective because the older routes that had more rolling stock were only $30! So DTG have increased the price by 33% and are including significantly less new stock than they used to. I don't mind reusing or recycling locos from past routes, but then that should be reflected in the price.

 

It's called shrinkflation, and DTG are far from the only guilty party.

 

I haven't made a reskin, but I am a route builder.

Although, there are absolutely people who have made full loco packs that are on this forums. Victory Works come to mind...

 

For TSC maybe but not in TSW!

 

People need to realise that DTG can maximise profit while delivering more from their content. I wouldn’t really call it “laziness” but it seems that DTG stick to a certain method when it comes to route development. Again it’s not unreasonable for people to expect more when each passing year the price of dlc is going up and we are getting less content for essentially a higher price. I just think that we should be getting our moneys worth out of each route we get. We shouldn’t be getting charged more money for less content

 

Wow people are still pressed about me calling DTG lazy. With all the disagreement im standing on business. DTG is lazy xoxoxo.

Im genuinely wondering what should or shouldnt be done fr you guy to in your eyes justly deem DTG lazy.

Also addressing some of the replies ive seen, not knowing how to do something doesnt mean I no longer have a right to speak on it and make statements about it.

Im not constantly negative about TSW, I enjoy the game when I purchase new DLC or a new one comes out but thats about it. Routes arent replayable especially if its a shorter A-B route like the upcoming Goblin.

I absolutely praise JT for their work on BPO because it was done in my opinion, to the best of their abilities. I mean fgs we got 2 variants of the pacer WITH suspension. They clearly thought about the consumer with that route.

Some of DTGs work I do like, BCC, amazing work nice interesting route with a variety of services with different stopping patterns and everything.

BML timetable wise is absolutely brilliant very busy but thats not really something to praise DTG with as its like that irl. What I praise these developers for is the effort you can see in their items, the engagement with the community, the going above and beyond for their community. DTG engage with their community when they are doing a live stream or a mod is replying to something on the forum. MY idea of engagement is looking at suggestions and what people are asking for and atleast TRYING to atleast say we have noticed this ect.

An example of something that has been suggested forever in both TSC and TSW is LTSR (C2C). I have been seeing this suggested for YEARS. If its a licensing issue atleast say that?

Instead we get niche routes like the Goblin. Great the 710 is here wow beautiful sounds amazing whatever. We could have gotten a way better route with it.

Omg and lets not forget the lack of bug fixes... £30 and i according to some membersof this forum I shouldnt expect bug fixes because I dont know how to route build. What a low arguement. The forums shouldnt exist if we run with that. People shouldnt suggest routes or trains because they have no idea how much goes into them. People shouldnt ask for better physics, sounds, animations because they have no idea how much goes into the production of that. Get a grip will you.

The lack of stock in routes? Abysmal. With termini like Victoria you get away with it there isnt alot of variety there irl just electrostars and networkers but for termini like Man Pic absolutely not. I recon if we got anything out of waterloo it would have either the 444, 450, 455, 701 or 458. Idealy we would get the 455 and 450 but DTG isnt ideal.

I cant wait to see what Rivet pull out of the bag with the coming Fife Circle and I hope they take advantage od the number of stock that run or have ran along it.

Lazy xo

 

Yeah, about that...

 

closest thing to a sort of loco pack is the livery mod pack for the DB BR 101
DB BR 101 Enhancement/Expansion Pack (TSW4 Compatible)
really like that one

 

After seeing what Rivet Games did with the Class 150, Rabe523 and Edinburgh Engineering DLC, i'm guessing that you are the only one who's excited for that upcoming dumpster fire.

 

for me rivet stuff is ok
most noticeable things to me where some weird looking mountains on the Arosa Linie

because I am not a expert that knows every little detail on trains
and know how it must sound in real life

i can understand that if you know that
it can be irritating to see such see and hear differences in details or sounds

 

It could be confusing to some players, less experienced for example, to figure out the plethora of DLC available and see if what one wants to buy is compatible with the version of the game they have.
Thank God Steam has a great store and mentions what base content you need in order to play a certain DLC because if you rely on DTG... Well we know that they are relying on others to potentially continue steam era trains so they use the platform´s system to sort out their stuff.

Product images, titles & descriptions show TSW 2 & 3 while it also says they are TSW 4 compatible. Why not just use the name of the product since they know it will be most likely made compatible with TSW 8, 9, 10 etc.? Or the TSW compatible even though this can also be confusing.





In the Epic store, it´s a jungle since they don´t have the same well put together system as Valve:


I assume they never found the time to come up with a less confusing approach.
It´s not laziness, it´s just not on the roadmap...

 

I'm curious to know if DTG have considered to develo more than one train per route in the next future, maybe in the annual new game, if a specific line requires two new train (for example if they move to Italy where they haven't anything just build)...
Just to know their opinion!

 

Sorry but you go nuts now.... This both stores are not from DTG so your'e complaints are way to far off now.....

 

What does that even has to do with the original topic of the thread? That should be rather it's own thread, so the feedback can be seen properly.

 

The TSW compatible bit means they can be used with any TSW game after the one they were released for. They are listed with the game they came with because that's the game they were originally released for.

I really don't see the problem here.

 

Exactly this, the devs do an amazing job doing what they are told to do. The devs clearly have a passion its just the higher ups.


Also if my 'rant' went to your ignore list why you telling me i couldnt give two flying [Removed]

 

Thats the way how it continues in every topic.... They searching and digging for complaints and it results in things far from the top.... And the end point is....i will survive in complaints how of they would be
....

 

DTG does a great job by ensuring compatibility of DLCs with the latest game version.
When they release a new version, they re-release all DLCs that come along with the new game (you will see that they all share the same September 26 2023 release date on Steam when many are way older than that).

They rename the title of the DLC which is great but why not have a more modular design in mind from the start so that they are less confusing for new players. People were talking about optimization and not laziness, this is their opportunity to optimize the renaming of dozens of DLCs each year.
The re-release also clears away the reviews which is great since they are mostly negative. Then a new player finds out about the game and sees so many releases with 0 reviews. No news is good news, they say.

When you buy Lego bricks, it doesn´t say with what set they were released with because it doesn´t matter. It would be confusing if they did that and useless.
By the time they get to TSW 10, would it matter if a route was created for TSW 2? If you like it, you will buy it anyway.

 

Actually, it does matter if a route was created for TSW2, because any loco DLCs released for it and before require their home route, compared to DLCs released from TSW3 onwards.

 

I have several ideas for Legends type packs that include classes that are not 100% accurate for the period featured. I will post these shortly as there are some interesting types within.

 

Here are some of my suggestions for Legends type packs.

GWE
Class 22
Class 35
Class 41
Class 42 & 43
Class 117 & 121
Class 123
Class 128

LBN
Class 403
Class 73, 487, 488
Class 442
Class 460

ECML
Class 23
Class 55
A4 Steam Mallard