New Route: Rosenheim - Salzburg Discussion Thread

Interesting, thanks both for taking the time to clarify, much appreciated.

 

According to DTG in the Q+A, it's stated the 111 will only be used in timetable mode for Rosenheim-Salzburg - surely that can't be right, what about loco substitution? I mean, for example, the 110 as a comparison can be used across several routes, from MSB to SKA etc (as loco subbed). Would be nice for further clarification!

 

I‘d like to know if they are gonna add the missing catenary bracings. It was done correctly (almost) in VRBG and ECML.
It really kills the immersion going through the Border and the OHLE goes straight through.

 

You have to free roam it or scenario designer. They said it has not been authored or tagged to run on other routes.

 

The 110 would be a rare sight indeed in 2013. Not impossible, but pretty unlikely. IIRC the only ones left (as 115s) pull the Autotrain

 

I’m not entirely convinced by the scenery between Rosenheim and Freilassing. I feel like the tree density was a lot higher than in real life, and there was also no variation at all in the lineside scenery. It sometimes looked identical to the likes of Main Spessart Bahn… the big “we’re approaching the alps” feeling the route has in real life doesn’t really come across. Prien just looked like a town in a big forest… but I’m there multiple times a year and the area doesn’t feel like that at all. There’s no proper trace of the nearby Chiemsee lake that absolutely dominates the landscape. I just feels wrong.

There were also quite a few bugs in the preview (missing scenery, PIS, safety systems, passengers, wrong IC service description text etc.), way more than in other recent previews to be honest. Perhaps this release was slightly rushed to fill the gap left by the cancelled/postponed LIRR2 US route?

Still… the preview was enjoyable to watch. The services and layers offer a decent amount of variety (some proper BR 101 IC services finally), there’s also nice AI (BR 628 Chiemgaubahn at Prien, just like I had hoped!) and static stock. The Semmeringbahn ÖBB train will layer in as well, and Alex was teasing a Railjet elsewhere on the forums… this could really become a route with amazing multi-national rolling stock variety.

I’ll be waiting for the previews and opinions at launch, perhaps this will be a good route to buy once a big sale is on (although there are quite a few nice recent releases in that category already ).

 

I would also add that BR111 sounds amazing, at least for TSW standards. Glad that the game is doing improvements in that, I marked audio as most important improvement to do in all the past surveys.

It will probably be amazing route some time in future, after inevitable rounds of hotfixes come, and after some players fill in for missing beta testers and QA. And by that time, it will be in large sale. It just feels that DTG is losing so much money from first day, full price buyers just to cut relatively low amount of mandays in testing, in comparison with the whole route building project..

 

After getting round to watching most of the stream I must say this is right up my street for content. A nice curvy route with a lot of speed limit changes and services with quite long distances between stations. Plus of course the tap changer throttle in the 111. There’s enough variety in the layers too as far as I could tell.

 

So are level crossings working as per reality or not? The lights are working but not the barriers?

I thought DTG had got this figured out when SEHS came out?

 

From what Matt said in the stream that isn't the impression I got... I thought he said that they didn't add any NEW services for it on other routes but thought it may substitute (he didn't answer that part definitively).

 

Layers in older routes would be a huge advertisement of new dlcs. Many routes in tsw are still "empty" because the stock is missing. And players dont nessecary care the new route, could drive the new loco in a layered route.

- 4f in spirit of steam?
- gatwick express a.i on eastcoastway
- at least cl.700 static stock on l2b

Dtg rarely used that potential. There were a few exceptions like the acela dlc. But why not create a hype around bringing older routes alive. The preservation team was a really good thing. Unfortunately also a reason for me to not buy content anymore on full price is that it will be untouched 99% after release. Fire and forget.

Glad liam made the wsr rework / new timetable. TSW has so much potential with older routes, now correct rolling stock is available aftee years.

SEHS is a good example, but this came with the tsw3 iteration.

 

Driving through crossing with raised barriers is just not an option under any circumstances, never. In reality, the previous signal would not turn green if the crossing failed to close in the first place, but otherwise if you see open crossing in front of you, you must trigger emergency brake and tell the dispatcher to close the whole line immediately.

 

Yes it is (after sounding the horn and at walking pace).

Only if the level crossing is "Überwachungsart Hp", ie the level crossing is part of the interlocking logic in the signal box. Other types of crossing do exist that do not interact with the main signals at all.

Yes.

No. Well, maybe, but if the line needs to be closed, that's a decision the dispatcher makes for themselves, not something that the driver can just tell the dispatcher to do. Plus, there are other options. Befehl 8 ("You must [...] stop before level crossing(s) at [...]. You may continue once level crossing is secured.") does exist for a reason.

Further reading: Ril 408.2671 "Unregelmäßigkeiten an Bahnübergängen"

 

Yeah, after having order to do so. I was responding to a post about if it is okay and real to have just flashing lights and barriers up, when approaching it at 140 km/h.

 

See Bü 0 -> stop before level crossing -> operate (Auto) HET if possible -> there is no (Auto) HET or it doesn't work -> sound horn, enter level crossing at walking pace, clear it as quickly as possible.

You do need to report this to the dispatcher, but you do not need an order to do it.

Yeah, but the scope of your answer went significantly beyond that of the question. "Never" is a dangerous word when talking about something as complex as the railway rulebook.

 

exactly that’s the reason why I think RSN had the best 185 livery so far

 

Too bad currently DTG is spreading the RP 185 "copy" in db red with the not working break indicators all over tsw4....

 

Take a look at the preview stream. They are closing but it's far too late (when the train already crosses over them). Usually these barriers should go down I guess when the train passes 2 or 3 kilometers before on a railway with such speeds.

There seems to be either a bug that the closing mechanism gets its trigger delayed or (and this is a thing I don't know yet surely) the trigger mark is set too near to the level crossing. There is no tutorial given for us officially how DTG is placing level crossings, but from what I know and worked with so far is that it might be more of an automatic thing once the train invades a certain track section (we have several colors for each of them in the Editor and don't quite know how these are placed by the system - only thing I definitely know is that junctions divide them).

Yes, at least for the warning signs of the car traffic. These lights are independent of the closing mechanism. Not sure how it is with the warning light for the train driver on small branch lines yet.

 

A little feedback after watching a few minutes of the stream:
I was genuienly surprised how many substitutions actually are implemented. After reading the DTL article I wasn't expecting that, but it even looks a bit like BRO, which I enjoy for its variety.

Also, there have been 259 services shown for the 111 in timetable selection, although I felt on Salzburg - Rosenheim there are not quite as much here (with about 375 in total that would be a bit stange anyway) so I recon it should substitute somewhere else!
These two points raised my buying decision from 'skip' to 'hmm looks interesting, you could have fun with this' instantly, alongside the availability of a Taurus without Semmering from the beginning.
But hey dear Community managers- these things are cool and really present your product in a better way for us moaning long time customers so I encourage you - even if this feels clear and logically, it would be cool if such information can be included in future articles!

 

Not sure about that. On LFR and BRO you sit at a red signal with the level crossing right behind it and the barriers only close once you get the green light. Really nice touch and nice to watch…

 

Taurus will only be available once Semmeringbahn gets released.

That's not necessarily contradictory. If I remember correctly, it's done using "do not dispatch further" for the passenger stop, so the train requests next path only after the passenger stop is made. So until the new path is requested, the crossing does not "see" the player train.

 

the ÖBB one yes, of course, but the MRCE one showed up as selectable. At least...

 

Thanks to let me know of this.

However, this isn't contradictory to what I said as these track sections also can just be really small, or it's exactly the crossover point between these two sections where the signal is placed and the signal only gets green if the section is cleared/ready to drive on.

So the level crossing might be triggered by the cleared section (just like the signal), and not by the actual signal.

 

Not sure about the “dispatch further”. The way I remember it, on LFR it’s a regional service waiting at a station and you are being overtaken by an IC. Once the section is cleared, the signal aspect changes.
On BRO it was in a freight train, also waiting for a regional to clear the section in front.
What ever the technique used, the immersion was great!

 

There is also a temporary speed limit, I think this is the first time we see that. But the sequence of the signs feels bit odd (Lf 6 "Expect 80", Lf 7 with Lf 2 "Speed 120, start of speed limit", Lf 6 with Lf 2 "Expect 80, start of speed limit", Lf 3 "End of speed limit").

 

I hope there are no stretches of missing OHLE in this route DLC.

Yes, I know it's only a minor issue, but literally every German route I've played has missing OHLE or broken gantries... and that one gantry that trains actually drive through on Hamburg-Lubeck if I remember correctly?

 

I think Niddertalbahn also has that.

 

There’s aren’t any big mistakes, but the catenary is missing the fade ins and outs along the route. Especially bothersome at the border imo

 

oh, having more routes to play with Gatwick Express, maybe using its panto... and full speed... nice prospect

 

Matt said something about "having to rebuild the route" in order to add layers.... or something like that during the live stream.

I probably misheard what he said, as i was multitasking, but whatever he said, it sounded like it's a big job to add extra layers to older routes.

 

I'm glad some devs see it as a side project for routes they like. the announced timetable update for Köln - Aachen made me want to play it again for example. in my opinion having more realistic rolling stock and a less empty route is more important than better visibility on missing overhead wires that seem to never get fixed. RSN and München to Augsburg also has catenary poles in the middle of the track and those routes are years old. although with austria being new I'd love to see new routes. I think fixes and more rolling stock is something players want more. with the 4024 and 1116 as IC and freight semmeringbahn will probably be really empty. only after multiple new routes and hopefully some loco dlc to make it cheaper will the route live up to it's potential.

 

The thing is - people always ask DTG to expand from the big three. Now they do it with Austria. But new country always means that the first few routes will feel kinda empty. After 2-3 routes with more and more layers routes will come to life. See the LGV - it feels dead. But a second french route with a new TGV generation using the TGVs that we already have as layers will feel better. That's just part of the progress, i fear.

The best cure for that are loco DLCs. There is a huge demand in a railjet and DTG already said they "heared" that the demand is there. This gives me hope!

You can already see some synergies coming with the 1116 layering back on Salzburg Rosenheim. Happy they thought about that in first place.

 

Agreed. Although I’d love to see Vienna. Especially going from wien meidling through the city tunnel and over Süßenbrunn towards the border or Wien hbf towards Linz. It would look way better with more loco’s. I think a loco pack bringing EC and NJ/RJ into most routes would be great to spice up the dosto and standard IC coach in DB livery spam everywhere

 

Correct and speaking of the DB Baureihe 115 DB Autozug its formation is Ddm 915 hidden for Voarlberg route Dosto sleeper WLABM IC coaches some are the Couchette Bcvmz Bcvbmz Wheelchair accessible Couchette source is the Czech Vagonweb for CNL1286. If Salzburg Rosenheim had one it's going to Villach from Dusseldorf using the same setup as CNL1286. In this case, the Bremen/Linkerheinstrecke 110.3 must drive to Salzburg Hbf/Frelassing from Rosenheim where you then detach it for 1116 if Semmeringbahn was owned for Villach from Freilassing
Video of CNL1286 in München Hbf

 

The 110 was only operational in the area of Munich... This train runs to the east station to unload the the cars... Thats 10min away... In this days they dind't run on longer lines anymore....

I have made this picture and this in 2014 by my self. This is the CNL Amsterdam Innsbruck. This was a thing you see more in that days... They use them to get Healthy

 

If I remember correctly, the timetable is based in 2013. You can get some inspiration for trains you could recreate of the same year here: https://www.bahnbilder.de/?name=galerie&kategorie_id=3350&jahr=2013

 

There is this for that too - vagonWEB » Train compositions » 2013 (gives timetables and formations) (although only intercity and above)

 

Tbh I kinda wish one could drive the 103 on timetable mode with the IC / EC services and not just the special trains. Maybe a timetable mod could reflect that eventually. Until then, there's always free roam.

 

By 2013 the 103s were all in museums; they were retired in 2003.

 

Except for 103 245, which was used by DB Fernverkehr well into the 2010s. And it did in fact haul trains to Salzburg during this time, as evidenced by Xander1986 's picture above.

The problem for TSW is that the door controls on the white InterCity coaches and the 103 aren't compatible with one another.

 

That strikes me as a railtour, given the old livery and even the old DBB Kekse.

 

This BR103 was running for the DB Museum in Koblenz and they use in Fernverkehr so that this loco keeps the papers and requirements (in German they call that "frist") to drive on the DB tracks.

 

103 245-7 always had a bit of a special role. You can read up on her here (and also on Wikipedia). She was elected as a museum loco but remained in service with Fernverkehr until a few years ago. She was often seen on regular scheduled trains.

 

I love to see wich repaints will come for the 111....
This is a picture from me a year earlier 2012 than the 103 in Salzburg Hbf with RE5 from München


This in the same year but in Winter at München Heimeranplatz RE5 München Salzburg

 

Btw there are already a good amount of preview versions out there on Youtube.

 

Yeah i have seen them

 

That cool Bahnland Bayern livery was also applied to a 146, which I recreated in CC.

 

"103 245 gelangte nach Ende der Planeinsätze zu DB Fernverkehr nach München, wo sie vor einigen Sonderzügen sowie planmäßigen RE-, IC-, EC- und Autozügen zwischen Nürnberg, Augsburg, Innsbruck, Salzburg und dem Brenner eingesetzt wurde."

So not quite a railtour, but not quite regular service either. And the in-game representation (one tpd) would be a realistic frequency, and the IC coaches appropriate (although really they should be the newer Verkehrsrot ICs that come with the 101.)

 

You can make certain locos spawn less often AFAIK. See the 110 on the Dresden route with RE trains. You'll see mostly 146 or 143, but once in a while a service with a 110 might appear.

 

Yes. I'm no expert here since Bavaria is absolutely not my forte but as I understand it, 103 245-7 ran a few scheduled services over the years but was mostly used as a replacement loco for whatever was needed. There are some nice YouTube videos of her in regular service: