Gospel Oak To Barking Riverside Preview Stream Thoughts - An Actual Solid Dtg Route?

The GOBLIN Line Preview Stream has probably but the time this is being written, finished, there are some small issues, but mostly, amazing things with this route, and I'm gonna go in depth here.



The Price

The price for GOBLIN is £24.99, In Pounds $29.99, In Dollars or 30 Euros

Honestly, the price could have been a lot worse, it could have well been 30 quid, 25 quid isn't particularly a good price, but its also not a bad price at the same time, in my opinion, it's better to get it on sale, but if you want to buy full price, that's fine as well.



Timetable

The timetable itself looks to be mostly quite accurate, you've definitely got a nice mix of passenger and freight services on this route, you do have railtours for anyone who is interested in those

The Class 710 has 154 playable services for you to enjoy, the services looked incredibly packed together, in terms of timing, as a rule of thumb, there's a train usually every 15 - 20 minutes from a station depending on where you are waiting from.

In total the route has over 1000 services, if you count AI
The freight services are, from what I see at least, much more than a standard UK route. There's a bunch of night freight, for those interested

Overall, It's a decent Timetable


Loco Quality


The New Loco For this Route is the Class 710 Aventra, this quite literally runs the backbone for this route, the cab looks really well done, it's definitely very close to real life.
As for the sounds, they seem spot on, sounds like a 710 should, I've been on a 710 before, and I must say, it's very close, and it's acceptable, the physics seem realistic, and very close to it's irl counterpart.
I like the underground information screens, they definitely are a nice touch of realism, although, I can definitely say from experience, the central, and Elizabeth lines are definitely not good Service


Route Quality

Normally, With DTG, scenery can sometimes be a bit of a weak point. However, with this route, they seem to have mastered the scenery.
Scenery overall looks great, nice track laying and foilage etc, they've started using more custom assets in this one, so that's also a nice bonus
This scenery seems to be a massive step up from their previous UK routes, it's a lot more detailed and they've flattened out some scenery issues with the environment here.
Overall, Solid Scenery

Station Modelling/Quality

The Station modelling in GOBLIN is Incredible, like, probably one of the best, I looked on stream, South Tottenham station, and it looks, quite literally identical to Google maps, they've even gone down to make extra details for the roads, they actually look like London Roads, and not just some Grey Tarmac in the road
The TFL licencing has definitely had an impact on how the stations were modelled, all 13 stations are modelled to a particular style, and it's very cool!

Other Additional Features.

Some other things I've noticed, is that the 710s doors, close automatically, at first, I thought this was a glitch, but it turns out that this happens in real life as well. So, it's not a bug, which is a huge relief

When driving, I do notice the mix in Ballast, some bits of the track have concrete ballast for little bits, I personally find that a nice touch, as the route has definitely seen some changes, it's a sort of mix between old and new


The Issues


Now In going to go onto the issues that I witnessed.

So, I notice at the tunnel that goes under the ECML, near Harringay, the OHLE kind of clips into the structure of the tunnel, which is a little eyesore.

I have no idea if this is a real life thing, but Throughout the whole route the ballast changed to multiple shades of colour, there's grey ballast next to the standard ballast, this could be something to do with irl, but I have no idea.



So, that was Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside.
In my option, possibly one of the best UK routes DTG has done, and I think scenery definitely competes with some of the best, like Blackpool Branches.

Well Played DTG, well played, you made an actual solid, UK route

 

Yep, this route looks really good and everything I could say you’ve already said, but to answer this

Ballast colour may change along a route due to its age, fresh ballast is usually a light grey colour whilst old dirty ballast is the common brown like on the German routes.

Other than that I’m not sure how I feel about the harder to find collectables, I mean unless I can see them when I’m driving I’ll probably just use a guide anyway but I don’t wanna spend ages looking, it gets a little annoying.

AlsoI wish they had gone with a longer line because the quality of this route looks superb. This may be (in terms of scenery quality at least) on par with Blackpool & Niddertalbahn.

 

I was sceptical of this route, but now that I have seen the preview - it is amazing!

I can clearly see a lot of work went into this route, with plenty of details everywhere.

If short routes like this lead to the quality level of the Suffragette (at least from what has been seen in the preview stream), then I am all for more 15-mile routes.

 

DTG getting very good with audio now. Shame reused flange sounds. Traction sounds okay but not great: pay attention to attached video.

https://youtu.be/ruIJ22TEDhM?t=1944

Aventra uses same RCFM asynchronous pattern but at the higher frequency coinciding with the 13 pulse mode. Talent 2 starts with 15 pulses, but at higher frequency this 15P mode can be avoided altogether with the Class 710 starting with 13P to reduce amount of switching and allow later higher speed synchronization.

Also pay attention to the fact there are multiple synchronous pulse modes under CHM (carrier harmonic modulation). Nowhere do I see this reflected in the game - I find it very important that the TCU sounds are mirrored as close as possible in TSW so that it creates the sense of digital signal processing even if Simugraph isn't capable of that level of control.

Let's go back to the topic of RCFM. The nature of the carrier switches from random frequency to SVM ramp function at 13 pulse, and then CHM when synchronous drive mode is switched to. In the game, I did not hear this SVM/CHM ramp at all but rather the RCFM sound seemed to just fade out as if the inverter isn't even doing a job at all. This isn't realistic in the slightest, the 4QC DSP simply switches to SVM/CHM mode at this time. It would have been nice to go the extra mile with research rather than blindly throwing recordings into the game... but this is just me being nitpicky I suppose. Others are sharing this opinion but like the traction control needs to be respected a bit more in audio.

 

The motors sound very desiro like to me, though after watching a few videos it's actually really spot on, hopefully this is the new standard for dtg routes

 

The route looks really good. That’s really cool what Matt was saying about the high flats he used to live near has been modelled to perfection. It’s little things like that, that makes the route feel more special.

 

I liked what I saw, lots of nice details and the stations looked well modelled. It captures the urban feel of the area well with what seemed to be a decent variety of buildings.

The night lighting looked decent from what I could see.

The 710 looks very well modelled. I don't know how realistic the sounds are as I have never been near one but from what others have said they sound correct. I like the look of the cab with its screens and wide windscreen. I don't think I would want to travel on one regularly in real life with those seats facing inwards.

I thought the occlusions on some of the tunnels seemed a bit slow to react but that might be my imagination.

I liked the bench you can sit on to watch the ECML although, personally there are only so many times you can watch a class 700 or Azuma go past. It is a nice touch though.

 

I’m glad the fog didn’t come in sooner after seeing Matt selecting dynamic weather for the first run on the preview stream. I don’t know why he has to rush through everything on live streams. Sam is no longer around to tell him to slow down Anyway, got to see most of the route properly and it also looks good at night with decent headlights on the train.

It’s also a perfectly acceptable choice of route and length for the price considering the density of the route. I’m going to buy it on release, which I wasn’t planning on before the preview. Stop-start runs aren’t my favourite type of service to run but on an interesting route that looks this good (mainly very well modelled) that won’t be an issue, plus lots of Class 66 action to enjoy.

 

I watched the stream and paid close attention when Matt showed the Class 710 services list, as requested by somebody in the live chat. Noticed a lot of 5, 6 and 7 minute ECS / depot moves included which confirmed my greatest fears. Admittedly he only showed a small part of the list, but it was enough to put me off buying the route until we get a 60%+ discount next year or whenever.

Honestly, i got bored to death of driving the Class 323 on Birmingham Cross City after a couple of days, and that route is a lot longer than 13 miles. So however wonderful the trackside scenery looks, i don't really want to look at it over and over again in the same class 710 every 45 minutes.

If DTG added a class 378, or gave us a freight yard or two that at least added a bit of variety, i would pay the £24.99 asking price. Alex repeatedly selling the route on "Ooooooh, the lifts at stations work and you can see AI controlled trains!" every 5 minutes during the stream was just taking the **** to be honest.

If i wanted to watch trains and use lifts, i'd go to my local station in real life and it wouldn't cost nearly £30.

(Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant).

 

Still not interested to buy at the release but it is looking a fairly decent quality from the snippets I have looked at. I'll perhaps wait for a half decent sale as I just don't think there is any replay ability with it.

 

Only downside is the price. Should be £19.99 for a route of that length. Especially when Fife and especially Semmeringbahn are in the near pipeline (two routes significantly longer).
But it looks fun for what it is. And the stations look incredible.

 

This route will be a day one purchase for me ive seen and heard enough. Not sure about the price, 25 quid for a route with low replayablility. With the quick peak of the 710s services on the stream it is pretty much Barking RS <>Gospel Oak all day. Of course thats how it is irl but still. I see myself playing this route for a couple days and then not touching it forever.

 

The stream itself was abit of dud (the viewer count being a third of what it was when it began, 40 minutes into the stream seems to support this), Alex answering the same 3 questions every 10 minutes, only interjected by telling us how busy it was (even though the platforms were empty & trains were sparsely passing).

The routes modelling is nice though, lots of infrastructure, although it did seem far too clean (as do most routes). Wasn’t much impressed by Barking & Gospel Oak being dead every time we saw them, nor Ripple Yard having barely anything in it.

The door setup on the 710 seems like it will be a pain too, I’m not going to look forward to having to reopen the doors just to trigger the interlock - that was a feature they either should of omitted or followed through on, not go half way.

It looks the part overall - modern & urban. One of DTG’s better urban scenes for sure. Just not sold on what gameplay this route will offer at full price.

Matt rubbed me the wrong way towards the end of the stream too, talking about how time is better spent in certain places etc, after highlighting the functional lifts & all the goblin related work.

 

Yeah I dont get that part. Surely that will slowly cause delays. You may end the service 2/3 minutes late.

Great idea wrong execution

 

The scenery (lineside environment and especially the stations) looks superb, the loco itself is very nicely modelled and sounds great. It's clear that attention to detail went into this route and it's easily meeting my expectations on that front. The timetable also appears to represent the real deal as we've now come to expect from contemporary TSW routes, including AI traffic.

Having said that, I'm really concerned about replayability given the service pattern is so basic and repetitive. The emphasis on how busy the route was in the stream was a touch disingenuous I think - yes, there are 400+ services but they're all essentially similar (either 710 all-stoppers or yet another EWS 66 run).

There may be 1000+ AI services but AI services are essentially part of the scenery, particularly here where they don't even interact with the player route (so no possibility of holding us at a yellow for instance). I'd be happy to be proven wrong but I can't imagine there are many situations where you will see a yellow or red signal in the course of normal operations on this route.

The route is also pretty slow for such a nippy unit - I'd want somewhere more interesting to stretch the 710's legs (and no, scenario planner doesn't count) and there were several occasions during the stream where Matt was accidentally overspeeding after only a brief period of acceleration.

Ultimately this boils down in my view to another questionable route choice. I appreciate it will appeal to those players who are looking for a pure commuter EMU experience but what of those of us who enjoy not only stopping EMU traffic but experiencing a route in multiple ways? I hope the next UK route on the roadmap turns out to be more varied and interesting, and that we eventually get somewhere more satisfying to stretch the legs of the excellently represented 710.

 

Nah, you’re good and although I liked the look of it it still left me feeling a bit cross.

I really wish Matt would slow down instead of rushing and making it look like he’s hiding stuff (he probably isn’t but I’ve seen enough dev show and tells in my life!)

I am also starting to get irked by the marketing spiel and hyperbole. “We aren’t discussing anything apart from the preview” when it’s convenient followed by “do you know we have a sale on?” when they have something to sell.

Lifts? Great, I have one in my office and don’t need to experience one in a game too and like you, if I wanted to Tain spot then Stratford’s just up the road.

 

This is a good point actually - time to implement lifts, doors/gates and goblin hide-and-seek but not time to include on-board announcements?

Ironically the lifts have announcements but the trains don't - methinks priorities are once again in the wrong order.

(Another reminder that the only reason that Rivet have had to bodge their own implementation of announcements is because DTG didn't get one sorted for the core, otherwise Rivet would have almost certainly used that)

 

I was very impressed with the preview stream, especially how detailed all the stations were and the sounds for the 710 were.
The only thing that lets this route down for me is the on board announcements, DTG need to come up with a way to have these on future routes going forward. Having that extra immersion on a route makes all the difference.
Since a lot of people are put off by the route length, having that one tiny feature (on board announcements) would give people an extra incentive to buy it. One reason I’m looking forward to Fife more.

 

I also watched the stream being fairly intrigued in the whole situation. And I must say the scenery was very well done. I loved the scenery it looked better than we've seen a lot previously. I like the inclusion of the 33 layer though always good to see that out and about! And the 37 layer was interesting.

I still feel like it was a little bit of a token DTG style effort. Like it looks very nice, the 710 looks very good and sounds very good. But the stream just kept losing my attention. It kind of felt to me like something was missing? Especially the way the focus was on finding a lift for half the first run? IMO it just felt like they were scraping the bottom of the barrel a little during the stream for features to show off?

A previous comment compared this to JT with BPO and TSG's NTB and I honestly can't see where the comparison is?

Dont get me wrong it wasn't bad. As I say the route looks beautiful, the EMU is very nicely done. It just feels like its missing something for me and I'm not really sure what. Like there wasn't a "Wow" moment I guess for me personally.

 

The level of detail on scenery and stations is a lot better than on other DTG routes. Functionality (no rigid passengers, lifts etc.) seem to has been increased as well. However, this comes for the price of the cutted length.

Yes, there is a direct relation between these two as if you have less time to spent building more route, you have more time to enhance the one you have.

Not really sure what I would prefer for future content: Amount of detail vs. route length/variety. Not an easy choice.

A big drawback for me: No passenger announcements and no plans to get them into at an upgrade. For a rapid transit line like that a must have IMHO and somehow really ruins the otherwise really beautifully created immersion.

 

For me I classify routes into the following lists

My goto routes - Routes that i will literally just load up TSW4 and play and will possibly do one or two services.

My every now and then routes - These are basically routes that I will play one service and may not touch them again for a few weeks.

Only if they get chosen in my stream routes - Literally what the title says. When I do a livestream if this route gets chosen out of my bag of routes then I'll play it. Otherwise its very rare I will touch it.

The Goblin line falls into the second category with me. What I have experienced so far is good and I have enjoyed it. There's a freight service you drive where there is a 3 freight train meet (including yours).

The route looks well made and yes where there are people that are here to just drive trains all day, the addition of the lifts is a nice touch and will interest some. This will proove controversial and very marmite to some. But personally I quite like it and it works well. Whether more time could have been spent on doing on board announcements.... well I dunno its not upto me. Overall its an end to end route with other trains going off world. Over several of the other lines that criss cross the route you will come across other AI services. So that in a word is a great addition. I always love to see the other lines getting used. Onenof the things I am.a tad dissapointed about is the lack of a staic cam mode for those that have rail cams along the route of which Barking (Railcam UK) has one or two.dotted about. So you press 4 on your keyboard and it takes you to the nearest static cam, if its there. If not a tracking shot. Similar to TSC but not as glitchy.

Overall a nice touch. I Need to play with the TMS a bit and see what I can brake.
Also perhaps in the tutorials for driving the unit / loco it gives you the option of turning safety systems on. But with the varying degree of different safety systems around the world it would be opening a Pandoras box what it's etc etc.
Anyhow I am.looki g forward to spending g more time.on this route.

Hentis

 

Not watched the stream but did they answer my two questions about why the NLL was not included and whether there are plans to actually extend this later?

Otherwise I’m with matt#4801 above. A nice stocking filler come Christmas at 50% off but to be honest I already have more than enough to be going on with in TSW and TSC without spending £25 on what will at best be a two round trip distraction, no matter how good the route detail and train modelling. DTG need to learn, having created the behemoth that is now TSW, it takes something exceptional (or a sweet price) to get a Day One purchase out of many of us.

 

Really enjoyed the stream and the route looks brilliant, I will definitely be picking this up next week.

 

What was their reason as to not including the NLL?

 

Interest in this route will soon wane after a couple of runs, just like BCC and Glossop (even though I like and travel on this line a lot in real life).

I'll wait for a 50/60% sale.

If it included a couple of other lines to make a mini network then I would of got it at full price

 

Yup, Glossop was very well modelled & had more than a few good decisions made within it, however there’s not too much replay value in it.

These routes are ok, if they are designed to be part of something bigger. I suppose it’s too much to expect them to come with another route attached (although NLL & Goblin, or Glossop & RoseHill lines combined don’t break the max route milage-omiter), but they should be getting made with the future plan to add another DLC into them, to make them a bigger, more combined experience.

I suspect the reason things aren’t done that way though, is because DTG make much more money from release period sales, rather than later sales. Allocating more money into marketing than product design likely reaps DTG bigger rewards.

 

Alex just replied in the Q&A thread, and basically only answered the questions he answered last night (multiple times), before locking the thread.

I suppose as always with DTG, we’d only get a ‘no’ and then the conversation is over, so it’s not missing much.

The behaviour from DTG though & the oddites during the stream - barely doing a full run of the route, subjecting us to spending almost as much time looking for a lift & goblin, as it would take to just run a service. Then bouncing around 5/10 minute sections of other services for an hour, before sitting on the rather empty ECML. It all screams to me they’ll drop this route & never look back.

 

The ECML AI was their unique selling point for this route. They kept hammering in on the fact an 801 and 700 will pass overhead.

Everytime I mentioned that the route is gonna be boring people would jump down my neck about the ECML AI.

You cant even see the trains from the cab you have to go up to track level

 

this route and specially all new ones looking wonderful thats the right way
but on routes which are so short i wish they would extend them in short waves quartal wise (an announce from the beginning) this would also increase the sells.

cheers

 

You’ll be able (or should at least) to see them from in the cab approaching the crossover. It’s not going to be realistic to see a train every time you go under the ECML, but for the purpose of the stream, DTG should have got some timings rather than sitting around & showing nothing.

I don’t think it was their unique selling point, but Alex was certainly being over pushy with it in the stream.

 

Its definately what stood out to the community. Everyone defending the replayability mentioned the ECML ai

 

Although I plan on buying this next week, I am somewhat annoyed at DTG’s lack of attention to detail when making their routes. Third party devs can add on board announcements, so why can’t DTG go the extra mile to offer the same treatment. Lazy is what that is.
Matt said it took them between 3-4 months to build this route. That’s all well and good, but for such a small route in length terms at least add more features. This isn’t the BML with 2000+ playable services and tons of layers, it’s a small project with one loco and a few layers with less then 200 playable service across all layers.
I’m glad I can buy this route for £17 roughly with £5 PSN loyalty credit and a shoptonet gift card (£25 for £22.49). Honestly paying £25 for this route would sting.

 

Honestly, as someone who loves modern EMU routes, I'm very underwhelmed from the preview. It just doesn't feel very exciting and was quite boring to watch which was surprising. Echoing what others have already mentioned, the long-term replaybility of this route - arguably the most important aspect along with the timetable - seems very, very low. Meanwhile, another frustration is yet again there is a new UK route in TSW which features a rather large station (Barking) completely empty of other traffic; yes, obviously the correct rolling stock/TOC isn't available, but why choose this route then? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more Underground and other Overground routes come to TSW, but please, they have to be more exciting and offer much more gameplay value. I don't think I'll get this route soon as Fife Circle seems much more exciting.

Let's recap some things which means an exciting route:
- Busy, varied timetable with services of differing service patterns and/or duration providing long-term playability
- Lots of playable and AI traffic which means hardly no services are too similar or linear
- Use as many existing locos in the TSW collection: basically meaning no one-loco routes for a majority of a timetable
- Busy stations that actually are busy: no empty large stations

 

Watched the stream and it seemed as though the highlight of the route is the section where the ECML crosses over. Which should tell DTG something. Come on DTG, get the ECML built. I don’t care how long it takes, there are enough third party developers now for you to hopefully make your money and put an entire team, or two, into the ECML. Charge what you want, take my money! One can dream eh?

 

It's a Day 1 purchase for me: it's a route I've travelled on in the past, it's got a station near where I was born (Walthamstow Queens Road), a station near my football club (Leyton Midland Road) and as a regular c2c traveller I know Barking station all too well (and it looks incredibly authentic, apart from the lack of c2c and District/H&C Tube trains).

 

Simple if you want to stretch its legs load up east coastway spawn on foot at Eastbourne issue solved you got whole racetrack to thrash 710 on

 

Is there no pre order for this route?

 

No

 

Or training centre

 

thought it was supposed to be busy?

 

I have to say that, from last night’s stream, the quality of the scenery, stations and train interior/exterior is superb. I did think though that the panel in the cab looked a bit flat and cartoonish though. Does this train use flat computer screens or should it be more 3D in texture?

I will definitely be spending a lot of time walking round, trying the lifts finding doors and gates that open and train spotting.

 

I dont understand the stream focus on the layering of ECML and the goblins and lifts myself. Because on BPO the open signal boxes and places to explore were really cool. And sitting watching the trains go by was interesting because there's so much variety you dont know whats going to show where.

As you say the empty section of ECML was a bit of a strange one. I wonder if DTG lost their focus with this route a little bit maybe? Or realised there wasn't much meat on it?

 

The screens are set back a little behind the main panel if that’s what you mean

 

It looks like a nice route. I don’t mind it being short. Just the right length of time for an after work drive and the scenery looks pretty nice. I’m pretty sure I traveled on part of the line last time I was in the UK.

I’m a big fan of the collectibles being harder to find. Hopefully I’ll never see one!

Really like how the layering is done. Seeing more AI traffic definitely adds something for me.

No pre order discount means no purchase just yet. As I certainly don’t ’need’ another route just yet, but I’m certainly going to get this at some point.

 

Probably the latter. Its hard to explain but this route has something about it that feels more liner and straight forward than other routes. I’m not gonna say it’s boring though because there more to it than that

 

I think it looks great and definitely looking to get this next week.
I don’t have loads of free time so a quick 45 run is ideal.
As already said Barking looks amazing and great to see a LTS station at last.
Hopefully someone cleverer than me might be able to do a scenario using some 387s to sub for c2c.
Also a mod to swap the pylons from BPO but I imagine that is not feasible.

Looking forward to buying it.

 

29 minutes in and several stations later there has been no passing trains, or have i missed something?

 

One comes into Riverside as the service departs, another comes into Barking when Matt leaves (late) too. That matches the 15 min frequency of the line.

Barking should be more lively though, they could have done with using the 72 stock at least & maybe a white 387.

 

I think they realised there simply isnt much to the route theres more AI services than player services. 154 services for the 710 most of which are Barking RS <> Gospel Oak and a couple to Ripple Lane and Barking.

There simply isnt anything substancial to this route to justify its price nor the hype. Ideal journey time for some (personally I prefer a longer 1-2hr runs) but how many of those perfect 45 minute runs will it take for you to get bored?

Hopefully now that we have decent Aventra sounds in game it will open up the posibility of a 730 and other routes running with Aventras

 

With the lack of a pre-order discount this route is just £2 cheaper than Fife Circle, this one can wait for a sale.