I Keep Coming Back To Tsc

I have TSW on 2 consoles and PC steam, but i keep coming back to TSC on Steam ... and it is mostly because of virtualRailroads ( vR EL ) locomotives and train sets and Armstrong Powerhouse improvements. I have several items from JustTrains but they are really not the draw for me.
The draw is using good rolling stock in Quick Drive as consists of my making with the great variety in that rolling stock ... some as Workshop or Marketplace items. Many of those items are also from vR.
If Steam for TSW were like Steam for TSC, then things might change, but in winter or at night, even with a good screen and GPU, TSC for me seems to manage to hold its own just fine.
There are exceptions, such as TSW offering Dartford to Rainham for Class 700 with TrainProtection running and enforcing OSS. And i now do have a TSW BR111 that matches the vR 111 EL. But mostly TSC is holding up fine, especially with Japanese routes in my case.
And then there are the Steam sales ! And the user ratings to consult ... and often manuals to consult first ( the standard recommendation at virtualRailroads site.)
Just saying ... my 2 cents worth

 

Currently split my time about 50/50, along with some other stuff I play.

Thing is there are routes and trains in TSC that we will never see in TSW, particularly now anything steam traction and they've also put North American heavy freight on hiatus.

 

I have moved more into TSC as it doesn't work my PC gaming laptop too hard and it don't get too hot. Also I plonked £77 on some DLC today so I will be there for a bit .

 

Can’t say i keep coming back. But that’s because TSC is the ONLY game i play, and i’ve never been away from it.

 

I usually find myself frequently getting back to TSC. Every now and then I play TSW but TSC has more dense scenery and quality of assets, more greenery, and many more options for US routes, especially commuter routes. With the many mods, and sky enhancement packs available, it's amazing how TSC can be improved upon. There is still more to come with this simulator as the devs are actively working to provide TLC to this simulator. I believe the goal may be to have the simulator working more efficiently on modern hardware before beginning to visually improve the simulator.

 

All ways come back to TSC,I have purchased all the TSW versions, but am never satisfied with it unlike TSC .

 

Got TSW3 dirt cheap in the sales (as I did with TSW2) and the only thing I used TSW3 for was to learn the German signalling following Matt P's YouTube tutorial.

For everything else... There's TSC..

 

Yea, TSC is like an abusive lover; despite the problems I can't let go!

I bought TSW4 dirt cheap in the last sale, along with DLC at 90% and 100% discount. I played with it for 30 mins, it looks nice, but I keep on being drawn back to TSC. Being able to fiddle around in routes and run any formation/consist that enters my mind is the draw for TSC and with the AP weather pack, TSC often looks more realistic that TSW.

Why is it that 90% of TSW promotional screenshots are set in misty early morning summer? Is that the only weather type that looks convincing?

 

I have two theories about that - also applies to TSC.
1., British company - that's the weather they know. (Especially blatant with old TSC. Gray All Around wasn't just a scenario title.)
2., Showcase how fancy the weather gets. Clear summer noon is fairly straightforward.

 

Journey Mode in TSW also seems pre-occupied with giving you a run in the wettest, murkiest or pitch black conditions possible. It's like as if they don't actually want to showcase the route!

 

If I only have a short time to play I will play tsw but if I have a couple of hours always classic. The length of the routes and so many locos it makes the stations feel so much alive and I think that is the main thing what turns me away from TSW.

When you come into new street on classic you can see voyagers, 800s, 350s, 323s 158s, 150s and more in loads of different livery's. On cross city on TSW you see pretty much nothing half the time

 

There seems to be a limit on ancillary details and most of the emphasis is on the engines and rolling stock and scenery very close to trackside. This may be to keeping it playable for a majority of systems and for consoles. It possibly could have higher detail level for scenery and background, roads, automobile traffic, and people but you would need a very high end system to play. You are not the only one coming back. Also having to purchase again every time there is an improvement is a big issue. TSC has the greatest opportunity for the average user to be creative and personalize their own experience.

 

TSC is still the most versatile train sim "World" experience due to having a range of many thousand locos to choose from and routes from all around the world.

The recent ÖBB 1144 update made me play that one (yes it was sleeping all the time and I had never played it before, and there's lots of content I purchased and haven't touched yet), on one of JT's early and still among the best TSC routes, "Three Country Corner", which is of almost double length than its TSW "Vorarlberg" counterpart.

Had a REX run on a winter's night from Feldkirch to Lindau, and it was just lovely. The night lighting, people strolling on the promenades of Lake Constance, lots of nice detail to spot trackside, correctly closing crossings and passenger announcements that makes this a more believable "living" world than TSW's clinical and sterile world.

And the ÖBB 1144 is one nice ProRange loco (of course after doing my cab cam adjustments, a little to the right, a bit forward and up). Often it's hard for me to understand how Skyhook underdeliver in TSW while having done some of the best stuff for TSC imho. Maybe UE "spaghetti" is not their thing.

Or to put it short: TSW reminds me how good TSC actually is. Even if we will see lesser content from now on - but what we got is enough for a lifetime and they can't take that away from us.

 

Are we talking only DTG or all train sims?

As I feel like Trainz may equal or best TSC in the versatile market over TSC.

 

Trainz has never appealed to me. Can't talk about it, but I understand it's more of a virtual railroad sim than a 1st person driver experience, and seems pretty shallow to me (also their business model is too confusing for me).

To me TSC is the best. I can relive Promontory Summit on Smokeboxes' locos, Cheyenne in the Wild West era, visit South Africa, Ireland, Norway, New Zealand, Italy, Czechia, etc. It's just a vast experience, whereas TSW is getting more and more "can't do this for that reasons, no license, no recording" thing. It had great potential once. But after seven years even passengers don't work, we still have blank cab displays, Steam abandoned, US freight put on hold. Goblin comes with three or four unique services duplicated and shifted to form a super boring timetable - without announcements. Each to their own, but TSC has much more to offer for me. Still hundreds of freeware routes to discover, often a work of many years, with outstanding detail.

 

While I haven't dived into Trainz much, I will say they do have a decent amount of content in general, and just from photos themselves, Jointed Rail's NA motive roster for it easily outclasses mostly anything that is released for TSC. Trainz developer is also Australian and has Aussie content, an area where TSC really hasn't gone either officially or 3rd party.

But yeah, Trainz is better off in the route building department, but TSC has a better hand in the driving department. But both have content libraries TSW players can only dream of.

 

With over 10,000 pieces of rolling stock and locomotives in my TSC roster it is hard to imaging that Trainz has more content. This is mostly North American content. There are a few from other regions that came with bundles in my earlier days. I did purchase an introductory Trainz DLC to try it out. I was not impressed. I much prefer first person player.

 

Yeah, Trainz sort of has its own place but to me doesn't fit in, like EEP ("Eisenbahn.exe") doesn't imho, although it's a fine piece of software in its own right.

 

Ok I finally decided to give TSW a good test v TSC. It really feels kind of gimmicky. What’s with this Treasure Hunt thing? I have been playing 50/50 between the 2 platforms. For me TSC seems much more relaxing and with all of the AP addons that I have it feels more vibrant. I will keep playing both, however, for me TSC just hits the spot!

P.S. What I miss most about TSC. The ability to be a train God with the access to Locoswap, TS-Tools, RWInfo and the simple ability to read the station name on the map. The TSW maps are just horrible!

 

Definitely agree. Before I played TSC, I was playing several iterations of Trainz for almost 10 years. It is hands down the best when it comes to route creation. The tools are simple to understand in the surveyor building tool, there were so many good places to download content from such as Auran's download station, RRMods, Jointed Rail, Trainz Commuter Rail and many more cool tools to convert buildings and more assets from Google sketchup to use in the simulator, DEM's for prototypical maps and many more. The only thing I will say about Trainz is if it had the same physics that are possible in TSC. Other than that, I find TSC to offer great amounts or DLC, and you can modify it greatly. TSW has great potential but is limited via many factors. While TSW's DLC has improved in quality over the years, I don't think it is the successor or replacement to TSC. TSW has the upper hand visually and when it comes to simulating prototypical timetables.

 

And still stuff like the AP Class 37 is visually superior to the TSW Class 37's. Have a close look at the brilliant texturing, the configurability.

 

Trainz is good for building routes especially if you have Transdem to import the terrain and mapping data.

But it still falls horribly short on the driving experience. Poor quality cabs, poor sounds and physics. After 23 years of development there is still no easy way to set up a player driven timetable path and have the AI take care of the routing and signalling etc. And N3V don’t care. They are even worse than DTG when it comes to arrogance and stubborn “can’t do” attitude. More interested in hooking you on their PAYM subscription service than fundamentally improving the game.

Anyhow after splurging quite a bit of money on American stuff, routes and steam locos, in the current sale I will be spending far more time in TSC these next few evenings. There is really nothing coming out for TSW that remotely interests me. The Goblin line is an overpriced short joke. Fife Circle I already have in TSC so no real need to spend another nearly £30 on what could be a bodge job by Rivet. Semmering again, already have in TSC, the Class 104 seems to be sinking below the horizon. Which leaves just the LA to San Bernardino Metrolink when that surfaces.

Anyhoo, if you need me, I’ll be in the cab of that Big Boy thrashing away over Wasatch or maybe later Maria’s Pass!

 

Highball!

 

Truly magnificent!

 

Yep, same here. I have tried a few TSW runs but always came back to TSC; same with other simulators. TSC is best when you can overlook issues (the minor ones at least; of course major ones are very annoying but I often don't come across major issues) and just enjoy drives. TSC's versatility and real world rail company branding always brings me back and I always enjoy it.

I have noticed more Train Sims are popping up on Steam and I am very happy to see that; but they have a massive hurdle to overcome in regards to beating TSC and like I said that is versatility. A new game obviously will not have 800+ DLC for you to choose from! Mentioned previously in this thread Trainz honestly beats TSC in that regard however due to it's terrible realism at times TSC again beats it. The only reason I would play Trainz is to play Australian DLC which as you can tell from my "#1 Australian Railways in Train Simulators Activist" title I have given myself that is the thing I want most from TSC and other Train Simulators as a whole at the moment.

While I am at it though here are some competitors to TSC that I am actually interested in or have played and enjoyed as competition is good and supporting other train sims is good too so they can branch out like TSC did overtime.

Derail Valley
I love this game! It's graphics and scenery are nice and options for how you want to play are great too it feels very interactive compared to TSC and is an open world sort of thing you don't just choose a train and run with it from a menu. The thing holding it back though is of course that Derail Valley takes place in a fictional European inspired place with general locomotives types roughly based on real world examples instead of real life locomotive models with real liveries. But if you don't care about that sort of thing and just want a pure, fun and interactive railway worker experience I would say it is good. It is still in Early Access and receives updates every now and then.

SimRail
Don't own this game yet but I eventually want to. The multiplayer aspect is extremely appealing to me. Like Derail Valley though from what I can tell the locomotives and trains don't have real life liveries / branding but from what I can tell are actually based on specific types; sounds like the 500km of real routes you get to travel on are from real life too. This game is also in Early Access and I feel will reach true potential if they branch out with other areas of the world.

Train Planet
Take what I have to say with a grain of salt as this game isn't even out yet as my opinion is only based off of trailers but this game looks VERY promising. Real trains with real branding in real places (at this time only appears to be Germany) with what appears to be relatively realistic operations and good looking HUD / GUI too if you want to play that way! From the trailer my only complaint is that those rollingstock "running" sounds are quite poor; the audio quality feels low. That is the only issue I have with it from the trailer but as it isn't even out yet and is being released in an Early Access stage this can be sorted out eventually.

I think out of those 3 games the one I am most looking forward to and has the most potential in matching or even beating TSC is Train Planet; again take that with a grain of salt since I am only judging based off of a trailer but it's potential is the big thing here and it looks promising. If a game like Train Planet eventually is able to branch out to other countries and time periods (Australia? Queensland please! ) then we have a real winner here. But this obviously will take time as going to different countries and learning about different railway types, operations, locomotive specifics, etc is a challenge to put into a game but I am willing to wait if we can get some quality out of it! I am really hoping it turns out good.

 

Maybe the Australian Railworks fans need to create their own DLC like NZ Railworks and the two SAR routes that are available?
It could be the only way to get Australian DLC in to the game
The Czech community have created assets, routes locomotives and rolling stock and it's abut 99% free.

I just looked at Train Planet and the pictures look very good apart from some sections of pointwork where the rails just cross each other without gaps - Look on the left in this picture

 

I certainly agree. If I had coding, model making and route building knowledge I would certainly attempt it. If an Aussie based developer comes along for Train Simulator Classic like NZTS Workshops for example who works on New Zealand then I would be extremely happy and be buying their stuff on release if it is of acceptable quality. I seriously don’t know how or why Australia is very overlooked in TSC; there is barely any third party DLC available either and I can’t find much. It seems us Aussies mostly stick to Trainz when it comes to simulation development. Other than that from speculation I’ve heard that it’s possibly licensing agreements with Australian railway companies that are holding things back but I doubt it’s as difficult as people are making it sound. I mean, what’s so different from other railway companies elsewhere that makes Australian licensing difficult? After all there is plenty of Trainz payware DLC with licensed Australian stuff…

I’ve also seen this brought up but some people think Australia’s distance between communities or major areas makes things difficult. That is true to some extent; mainly out west but there is plenty of good size routes you could make; mainly of small portions of railway lines but that’s the case with many routes in this game; none rarely ever are able to do the whole thing.

Later I’ll probably add my own ideas for possible routes from the Queensland state that you could do for this game for Australian stuff. People often overlook how unique Australian railways are.

And good spot on that screenshot from Train Planet. These sort of issues need to be brought up to the devs so they can get around to fixing it in later patches to assure the quality of the game.

 

I think the Australian problem is TSC is a UK company and trips to Western Europe to do research are possible - Australia would be too far and expensive to visit.

DTG have only made UK, French & German routes - the Austrian, Swiss & Turkish routes which DTG publish are all third party.

 

Even more, they don't have a community of route builders like the many other countries do it seems. TSC was always meant to be a mix of official and 3rd parties.

And you can do a lot with today's tools like GoogleEarth, OpenRailwayMap.org , etc without actually having to travel. Use Google image search to hunt for textures etc.

I mean, the Editor's out for 16 years, have you been sleeping Australia? (Probably playing Trainz I know )

India has a huge TS scene for example, with amazing content. Not waiting for DTG, but doing it all themselves. DTG's content is only one small part of the whole TSC experience.

 

Now that I think about it the reason us Aussies seem to stick to Trainz is because the game was originally developed by Aussies and had some Australian content from the very beginning of the games history which meant a lot of Aussies would be playing the game and learning to developing content and mods for it. So because of that Australians have mostly stuck to Trainz because that’s just how it’s sorta been for our railfan community with no other simulator producing Australian train simulation content so we have stuck to that game for a while now.

EDIT: I also want to mention there’s even an Australian train developing community for Transport Fever 2. So there is at least other Australians interested in developing digital Aussie train content; however most just aren’t developing for TSC.

 

I think at this point we'd need a very firm statement by the TSC development team to commit to anything.
I can fabricate an argument that existing partners moving to TSW or other simulators is all about being lured, convinced, financially or otherwise.
I purchased TSC when it was certainly relevant, but today's landscape is different. Windows 11, laptops & consoles, etc.
As a player it's just a bit of caution, but as a developer you really need to know whether you should invest or look elsewhere.

 

Another point is that those who build the routes are not necessarily competent 3D modellers. Back in the day I could just about manage a few simple station signs in 3D Canvas but that was about the extent of my ability. So chicken and egg, no one is going to build a route for which there are no suitable assets and the 3D modeller is unlikely to build structures which may never see use. For Australia you are also going to need their unique gum and eucalyptus etc. trees to lend a proper authentic look to any route.

And I as I may have related before, trying to set up a group of people interested is not that easy. Thinking way back to when I did the Blackpool Tramway route for Railworks as it was then called, apart from Mike Whiteley who did the trams and a few buildings an appeal on UKTS for help from the so called community elicited zero response apart from the usual hangers on offering to beta test aka just wanting early access. Oh and not forgetting Adam Lucas LucaZone at RSC (now at Skyhook) as it was then who was magnificent in sorting out an issue with a runaway loft section.

 

Further thoughts after playing back to back TSC/TSW. I feel that the length of the TSC sessions are much more satisfying. The TSW sessions start to feel like 'taking a break' in between TSC runs. Sure TSW has 'potentially' nicer eye candy (depending on addon software on TSC one owns), however, the routes themselves just feel a little too short. Having some timetable runs of say 4 minutes is almost not worth doing as you are finished as soon as you start. I will still be playing TSW (I bought the DLCs - may as well get my monies worth), however, I feel more satisfied after completing an 80 minute run on TSC. This feels even more so when running US diesels since these are long and slow. Having a short US diesel scenario makes me feel cheated. I just really enjoy a long chill run hauling a long cargo train out West.

Respectfully

 

One final thought. First of all I have to admit I have become a train geek! The biggest difference between TSC and TSW is you can tinker with almost EVERY aspect of TSC. There are so many tools, routes, rolling stock that I have to admit the following. TSC is a real obsession/hobby. It draws you in as there is a need to prepare every run, know exactly what rolling stock, map and aspect is going to happen. It feels like you need to actually know what you are doing and be prepared for the actual session. TSW is more of a 'pick-up' simulator.
My hypothesis is that the casual player (or player who likes/only has short bursts of time) would prefer the TSW option. The player who likes to understand/appreciate the fine details of the session (and most likely tinker as well) would prefer TSC. To complete this thought I would suggest from my experience there are times when I reflect both play styles. I would however suggest my predominant play style is the geek mode. THAT is why I keep coming back to TSC!
Respectfully

 

That is my exact thinking if I only have a short time to play I will play tsw but if I have a good couple of hours classic is always the first choice. I just think the Armstrong Powerhouse sounds and just how much stock is avaliable makes it for me

 

The problems with TSW for me are -
- the stupid stuff in the HUD, pointing out how far it is to the next stop with a blip on the screen
- inaccuracies with the Signalling, such as on the GWR no flashing aspect to warn of a slow speed junction
- having the Driver closing the Doors
- unable to do a Quick Drive without setting it up first and then No AI.
- unable to run what you want in a scenario, such as swapping the default train for something else

And the Lack of a BR AC Electric Loco - Class 81-87 - which you have to drive instead of just opening the Power Handle

 

TSC

 

Australia and the Netherlands+Belgium have about the same number of inhabitants, so statistics will likely show about the same number of railway enthusiasts, of which the ones that play Train Simulator are a small subset. The people who can/would/do create content for TSC is an even smaller number.

Us dutchies have stuck gold with Christrains, who makes Virtual Railroad quality models of Dutch trains for TSC. This has sparked an entire Dutch community of assets builders, who now have about 70% of the Dutch railways virtualised in TSC (and that's a lot of track - The Netherlands might be small, but it's one of the densely railed countries out there). All freeware, and generally of excellent quality with working safety systems and unique models of trackside buildings.

Over her it started with trains in Microsoft TS, which made people crave routes to run the trains on. This carried over to TSC eventually.

So Australia needs a similar spark - someone needs to get to modelling the trains. The rest will come.

 

DTG do not develop content at the moment - last product was Pegnitztalbahn. Until the core rework is finished, which may still be a long way to go, no TS DLC will be made by DTG whose artists are busy with TSW.

Keep looking around - I just installed the freeware https://rail-sim.de/forum/filebase/entry/8967-hannover-bremerhaven-v0-7/ Hannover-Bremerhaven route. There's lots of things to keep you busy in TSC for years.

 

I'm mostly on TSW at the moment. Possibly because there's been no recent releases of any interest in TSC. The upgraded GEML, The Class 745 pack then the AP Midland Main Line Enhancement Pack will definitely bring me back until the new scenarios dry up.

 

I never understand some people with Scenarios.
A chap the other month said he only played the default scenarios and when they were complete he would stop using the route.

To me that is a waste of time buying the route if you are going to be limited to the scenarios that come with it or a Scenario Pack issued for the route.

 

I totally get you there, at the same I think that's a big part of the beauty of ts1, everyone can play in different ways, some folks only run quick drive, others only play default scenarios, I basically just make scenarios and never play anyone else's at this point, others route build and so on and so forth. With TSW you've got service mode and some (in my experience generally inferior to service mode) scenarios and then you're done, yes there is reskinning, route mods and timetable mods but it's all just far more restrictive.

 

I'm utterly rubbish at making scenarios so I'm somewhat dependent on the skill of others. I don't see it as a waste of time as most good routes will have new scenarios to play with. It's only old and/or unpopular routes that see creator content dry up.
I also buy routes/DLC if they are required for other better content, AP packs for example.

 

Same here.
Except I'm happy to modify / recreate existing ones, or simply run completely solo end to ends (photographing niche).

Peter's example is extreme, though, unless the player is like me, realizing they have 400 more DLC to play and probably only a couple years to do so anyway. Like someone a few years ago ran a QD on every route, to see them at least.

I guess a lot of people don't really use the workshop.

 

I mostly just do Quick Drive, no scenarios at all.

Stats on how ab/normal that is could be very interesting, but I assume Steam does not share that data without DTG permission and/or a nice fee.

 

Given when ts1 was actually developed I wouldn't even be sure if dtg even knows, yeah modern games feed tons of data back to the devs but ts1 was developed back before the average player had a stable fast internet connection.

 

I'm the same - if its a scenario I like I will change the player train for something else, change some of the AI for other liveries of the same train so as not to break the scenario, change the weather conditions.

It still has the same timings but looks different.

And there are some routes I just drive in Quick Drive or, even better, Real Drives

 

the QD system needs an overhaul. First of all, a clever dispatcher that knows how to handle meets on single track with passing sidings
a proper implementation of the priorities a player can assign to the AI trains
a more intuitive QD consist creating interface, with a clear distinction between types and era's of locomotives and cars. it is all in the blueprints, but devs usually make a mess of it. And I do not look forward to wading through thousands of pieces of rolling stock to correct their definitions.

 

Thanks Peter. That’s why i make Real Drives. They are endless variation scenarios.

 

Ditto. I do drive Standard and Career (with scoring off) scenarios every once and a while, but the vast majority of my TSC runs are QD, mostly running British pre-grouping and grouping era steam locos as Heritage Rail Tours on "modern day" routes. In any case, Caledonia Works, whose locos are my overall preference, hasn't supplied scenarios with/for its offerings since very early on. Should I ever become any good at creating my own Standard scenarios, I will certainly consider doing so. I'm not holding my breath.