Enough Is Enough!!!

There are indeed tens of thousands of players, some of whom buy lots of DLC and that funds the creation of what we have now. If there were suddenly many more such folk we could have all the things that people keep asking for but there aren’t. People having the game available for free on Gamepass won’t just magically make them interested in buying thirty routes. Most of them won’t even look at TSW because you can’t shoot anyone in it and there will be many people who try it and then not enjoy it because driving trains is fairly dull in gaming terms. Some Gamepass players will buy a few DLC but the issue isn’t mainly down to TSW not being up to par but because there just aren’t that many people interested in driving trains on lots of different routes. Lots of other people may wish to get into it but just don’t have the kind of money to buy any games, trains or otherwise.

Even within the enthusiasts that do play TSW and other simulators there are players who will only buy certain types of route or content from one country. You could have the best route with the best train and still the overall audience won't increase beyond those that want to drive trains and a fan of only German content won’t buy the best UK route ever if they only stick with what they like. Most people do. As with all sims and hobbies, people have their preferences and some will only play TSC or Run 8, like my friend who only uses Pentax cameras and lenses for his photography. Canon could make the world’s best camera in his price range and he will never buy it. He is also way more nerdy and knowledgeable about trains than me but he has zero interest in driving trains in his spare time, he would rather be in the pub or at a gig or out in the countryside taking photos. My brother isn’t interested in photography or driving trains so he will never buy either. You can’t just magic up a massive number of new followers for a niche interest.

There is also little evidence that player numbers are decreasing for TSW either so it is likely that the same number or more are playing now than ‘back in the day’ when Creators Club first came about. New developers are joining the third party programme and are itching to release content because the player base is strong but it isn’t going to grow to the size that will pay for all the things people demand a lot on here and an increase in the quality of DTG content. That will come organically if it happens. It has actually been happening just not as fast as we would like.

 

Not heard this, is this official? Did JT's route not sell as hoped? I do hope this is not the end of BR era in TSW

 

maybe one day RSSLO will do its routes also for TSW... like Wien Hbf - Parndorf - Bratislava Petrzalka / Hegyeshalom O

 

I thought it went down well with the reviews and DTG have referred to it as a fan favourite route in posts since. But then idk if we're referring to old comments pre TSW4 by Matt say that BR blue doesn't sell well.

 

Then why are Cities Skylines & Animal Crossing among others massive hits? For that matter why do Farming & Truck Simulator do so well?

The idea that a game "needs guns" or have any sort of action was outdated even back in the 90's, much less today.

 

It may not make them interested...but it will make them aware.
I had zero interest in driving tractors around fields > Farming sim arrived on Gamepass > I now own the game and rent a private server.
In saying that though, if it would have cost me £30 a pop for a new map and some misc farming equipment my field ploughing journey would have started and ended in Gamepass.

Oh and stereotyping console gamers as people who just want to shoot stuff is kind of sad really. Just saying.

 

Those games are more popular because they are fun and accessible and have good marketing. Train driving is seen as sitting in a cab for a long time doing nothing, which on a hill climb in a US freight train can be exactly that for a long time. I know flight simulators are more popular than train sims and for the way some people use them, for long haul flights, there is that aspect but other parts of flight sims are way more exciting than driving a train along a fixed path with no steering to do.

A lot of gaming does have guns and I just used that as an example. I never said games needed to have guns to be popular but those that do seem to be much bigger than train simulators.

 

I won't disagree on marketing entirely, but there's a lot of games (and other media for that matter) with good marketing that fall flat on their face. Not to mention ETS2 as far as I'm aware got spread around via word of mouth, not by a regular marketing campaign. As for fun that can mean a lot of things, you'd need a more proper definition to properly debate whether that's true or not.

I completely agree with accessibility though, the game does a poor job at explaining certain things. A lot of the tutorials it does have are long and boring, which only gets worse as they get very redundant as you get more and more content. Not to mention the lack of tutorials for certain other things like safety systems is just baloney.

The thing is I heard so many reviews and let's players with Truck Sim say effectively "This game has the most boring premise in the world that I normal would have no interest in, and yet they made a fun game out of this" Truck Sim really isn't in any different a boat in terms of premise, all the difference comes from execution of its concept. Mainly actually having a solid gameplay loop that still gives players plenty of freedom, a much more accessible approach to DLC release scheduling and pricing, and more consistent quality. That I would argue is the real difference, premise has little to do with it as far as I'm concerned.

Bare in mind though both Microsoft Flight & DTG's Flight Sim World both tried to launch with just propeller aircraft, and arguably failed in large part due to that. That in itself arguably shows jets are a huge part of the equation behind why civil sims are popular.

 

Yes for me part of the fun of flight simulation is being able to emulate those holiday flights of years ago or fly the classic big jets like DC10, Tristar etc. Other than sightseeing, pootling around in a Baron or Cessna doesn't hold much appeal.

 

The appeal ETS2 for me has is - I can travel, visit places I've been to or have not yet discovered. Put some good music on and just travel. The scale is perfect to not make it boring, and ProMods is just.... wow. Just getting in my MB1632 V10 manual 8-speed gearbox truck, starting from Karlsruhe and drive to the Nordkapp and admire the ever changing scenery and ever longer days. Then pick up a job that sends me to Pakistan. Going wherever I want to, seamlessly.

And - it's a network, not separate routes. My combo spans Iceland to Korea, only using a simulated rail transfer through China.

 

Of course for some people the fact that it's a fictionalised compressed version of Europe ruins that for them.

 

Playing ETS2 whilst blasting good tunes is the best. However as a Londoner driving around 'London' is a joke it doesnt look like that anywhere..

 

I know for ATS alot of the older map parts are getting reworked to look better in terms of look and feel to the same levels as newer states, and the Phase 3 project for California makes it look alot more accurate that the original map from 2016.

Not sure where ETS2 is on map rework and such.

 

This game is brutal.

 

Yes that is my one pet peeve with ETS2 and ATS. When you’ve taken several hours in Run 8 to go from Kingman or Barstow to Fresno or Los Angeles then do same in 15 mins in ATS kind of ruins the illusion. But otherwise they are good games and normally get fired up a couple of times a month.

 

From DTG probably not. Maybe 3rd parties but as good as Blackpool was a DLC every year to 18 months is a bit of a wait. I can build a 12 foot layout with time to spare in that period.

 

[EDIT - Jan - Inappropriate]

 

I admit I did throw some money away... FOR SUPER-EARTH! Extremely enjoyable game.

 

Crime at British train stations is getting out of control

 

It happens to trains as well as passengers

 

I think I see what you mean. ICE shashlik

 

Well I don’t know whether DTG and Matt in particular are following this thread (or even care), but like to think my choice of purchases for the Spring Steam sale have sent a clear unequivocal message as to my view on the state of TSW. All DLC for TSC and nothing whatsoever for TSW. I added the Rio Grande Southern a couple of evenings ago and one more item to buy later on is the New Haven Springfield Line for a bit of retro branch line action. I’ve also got a Big Boy saddled up on a freight consist ready to tackle the 260 mile Havre to Whitefish mega merge route. Oh plus started a peddler freight run on the B&O Mountain Sub.

You can keep your one handled overpriced short ultra modern routes, I want something historical, something off the beaten track of conventional thinking, something to run classic trains on and I also want to see you honour and support some sort of rapprochement to decent steam traction presence in TSW.

 

Stop having a tantrum they cant please everyone era wise. Theres plently of routes that are based off the 20th century that had they been based around now I would have purchased. [Removed - DTG Alex - Insensitive]

 

No tantrum here old chap, just making a simple statement of fact. And I don’t need some anonymous poster on an internet forum telling me to grow up, especially as I’ve been around these games for over 25 years. This is the dissent thread so if you don’t like what people post, don’t read it…

 

Many of us do not like the fact DTG have a modern only policy in play. Many of us also invested a lot into TSW early on based on a good stable of BR traction and a promising development plan for the Simulator. Its not turned out so well in my eyes and those of others. So much so I am back in TSC using mainly 3rd party DLC and TSW is uninstalled. I have no issue with modern routes being produced they clearly sell and that keeps the lights on. However having an only modern policy and throwing steam and early diesel in the bin is to be honest a very poor show. I am here on the slim chance DTG or a 3rd Party produce something of interest one day but I won't hold my breath.

 

Im sorry that traind from your generatjon arent being made in the game. Its the 21st century now so id expect the large majority of releases to be based in the 21st century. Unfortunately for you that means 1 handled mus.

Theres a reason DTG have dropped steam and possibly BR routes. Id guess due to funding. Id expect its far more expensive to get references of heritage stock than modern stock.

Deal with it or join DTGs dev team or create your oen third party and make some BR era routes

 

Ironically, one of the best routes to date (Blackpool Branches) was successful in part due to the library of existing BR blue stock which was originally produced by DTG early on in TSW. To me, that sends a clear message that older-era routes and rolling stock are more popular than ever.

 

Some of us are "dealing with it" by choosing not to purchase the DLCs.

 

Judging by some of the DLC that's modern they aren't bothering with some stuff such as correct sounds. Older stuff isn't that hard to find and can often be easier to access. Those of us who want older stuff have a voice too.

 

Its probability easier to get Heritage stock because heritage lines aren't as rigorous as modern companies. Just depends whats running although I guess it depends.

The reasons DTG gave for (or didn't give in steams case) dropping those things were rubbish imo. They made a mess of steam and won't own up to it.

 

Welcome to page 92

 

Absolutely. However it's just not worth the time of day to argue with the rose tinted fanbois.

And just to offset Mr Indeges diatribes, 1. I did buy Blackpool branches and thoroughly enjoy it. 2. LIRR 2.0 looks as if it might be worth a purchase particularly if sweetened with a discount for owners of the existing route. Finally, 3. Telling people to go and build it themselves is just Strawman at best. Not everyone has the time or skill to build the content which is why we rely on DTG to produce it and happy to pay out when the right stuff comes along. However a one handled modern EMU 13 mile commuter route can't hold a candle to being able to plough across over 250 miles of north west America with a Big Boy.

Though to lighten the mood a bit, should relate when I mentioned yesterday evening to the missus I was off upstairs to play with my "Big Boy", I almost got a slap! (Sense of humour failure).

 

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Mr? I thought they were that woman in distress depicted (a fairly disrespectful image of a woman to use imho)

 

If games in older era aren't welcomed anymore by some why games like RDR2 or Assasins Creeds are so popular then ?

Not because old people like old stuff. No it's just that it's [Removed - DTG Alex: Inappropriate Language] to see a cowboy in Arizona or a warrior in Egypt.
Like seeing a steam loco running down a mainline 100 years ago.

 

Nostalgia plays a large part in the passion of all things railways, be it nostalgia for the trains of our youth, or that of the golden era of railways which we regret not being around for. DTG should never ignore that fact, and remember that a massive part of their user base is mostly interested in the past than in the anonymous plastic boxes floating around the network today.

 

Hmm. Massive maybe. But a majority? Unfortunately, I think not. It's clear that the pretty-colored joystick- controlled plastic boxes have become the future of TSW.

 

Don't forget the lifts....

 

To be fair on the lift situation. Plenty of criticism has gone in when lifts have not been included and now there is plenty when they have. Just goes to show that not every route can please everyone and we all have our own opinions on stuff.

Personally I am a big fan of modern traction such as Gospel Oak to Barking as being born in the 21st century I have grown up with these type of trains. The 313/314 being a personal favourite due to the similarities they have with my local route which has Merseyrail 507/508 units on.

However that does not mean I want to not see other stuff created and sometimes people can forget that. Although I would not be so excited, if they are good routes such as Blackpool Branches I will quite often pick it up and give it a spin even if it is not my preferred era or type of route . The American and some older routes (Two sectors I feel get neglected the most) deserve the same attention, time and detail as the more traditional modern UK and German Routes which are in abundance. Yes DTG cannot please everyone but there should at least be something to peak everyone's interest every now and then.

 

I still want Clinchfield to get another shot, I feel like it was kicked to the curb too early and abandoned.

-Fix the issues with the core route.
-Update the mountain scenery with lessons learned from AVL.
-TOD4 Update.
-New loco DLC's with a GP7 and U36C, plus more period accurate stock to go with them.

Hell, ask Reppo for help with locos, last I checked he was toying around with the TSW editor, and he has worked with DTG on US locos on TSC.

 

I don't think people would moan about the lifts if everything had a better level of attention paid to it. Bad Sounds, red light issues, dispatcher mess ups, no AI sound. DLC released with no authentic sounds. Dispatching trains on reds etc. Nothing wrong with gimmicks if the core product is in order. It isn't and this thread is testament to that.

 

Vern do you use RW Enhancer for TSC? I got it (2) recently and it really breathed life into the game in my opinion.

 

Something I definitely need to try!

 

I have it, along with reshade, it does improve the graphics but it takes a chunk of resources so expect a frame rate hit. This will of course be dependent on the route your running.

 

Are you using both simultaneously? I found that it's best to only use 1 for better performance.

 

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/enough-is-enough-rivet-games-edition.79919/

I have made a Rivet Games edition of this thread. Anyone wanna check it out go here

 

Yes as per some users recommended settings.

 

What I like best about RW Enhancer 2 is that it fixes the anti-aliasing so you don't get the flickering, shimmering trees and other foliage. Fences still flicker, a tradition carried on into Train Sim World 4 as well.

 

I would be glad to walk this floating road into space if I didn't have to get this load into Cheyenne.

 

More than one loading service would also help...

 

This video has been mentioned in the steam thread already, but I think it should be linked here as well, given the general topic of this thread. It it very interesting to compare the advertising in it with the reality of the game in all aspects, even the sounds which often miss the mark by a mile. Wonder what the creator of the video actually thinks - do they believe what's said in it?