The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly: Fife Circle

Rivet, Rivet... Oh, sweet dear Rivet. What have they done..

A route with inherent anticipation due to it's previous appearances in TSC (both as a route of it's own and as part of JT's Edinburgh-Dundee), with the Fife Circle route being a really good one by TSC's standards; off the back of an okay effort at Edinburgh-Glasgow and an absolute masterpiece that is Bernina Line.

This is...
[EDIT - Jan - Language]

Let's give them credit; though, there are some upsides.
- The Forth Bridge is stunning; as it should be. Likewise, the other two create a really good scene.
- The Edinburgh section is good (itself a straight copy & paste from EDN, though)
- The 170 looks and seems to handle quite good and realistically; even if the sounds are off (I'll come back to this)
- Stations themselves are quite good, some a bit bland.
- Layers, something Rivet seemed allergic to, are fine. The 801 and 385 are welcome additions; albeit expected ones.

The Bad
Where to start?
Timetable
What?
As I've layed out in the Fife Circle thread; this line has a lot of service variation;
Edinburgh - Perth/Dundee (2tph, 1 each)
Edinburgh - Glenrothes - Edinburgh (2tph, 1 each way)
Edinburgh - Cowdenbeath (1tph)
Edinburgh - Kirkcaldy (1tph)

From what I have picked up, based on Jasper's (unconfident) descriptions, we only have;
Edinburgh - Perth/Dundee
Edinburgh - Cowdenbeath (I didn't see this in the service list, although I was hardly being forensic in looking)
Edinburgh - Glenrothes (doesn't seem to continue, which afaik they do.)

97 services in total from the 170 is abysmal for the Fife Circle, and I say that literally.

The 385 chips in with a further 27-or-so services, operating Edinburgh <-> Glasgow QS services in the Edinburgh area.

What's missing
- Haymarket Depot: the already-modelled home of the 170s, will NOT be accessable in service mode!
But it's okay, because it's now open for Free Roam! (Yay!..)
- There should also be- although it's not for sure as to wether these do/don't appear or not

- 801 (1tpd) to Stirling and Glasgow (Edinburgh <-> Haymarket)
- 385:

• Edinburgh - Glasgow via Carstairs (Edinburgh <-> Haymarket)
• Edinburgh - North Berwick (AI)
• Edinburgh - Dunbar (AI)
• Edinburgh - Dunblane (what the [EDIT - Jan - Language]? These are literally in your other route, rivet!)​

- 170:

• Edinburgh - Tweedbank (AI)
• Missing Fife Services (see previous)​

According to Jasper they are looking at these new services. When they should, without a doubt; be there at launch.

Unless, perhaps, they're being saved for the 158 - which is probably even worse.

The Route
The route is just, meh, in most places.
The trees seem a very weirdly over-saturated way; the beaches are made of mud and the houses seem to be halfway in the air - oh, wait, sorry, that's my West Cornwall script.
It's not? They actually did the same stuff again? Seriously!?

Yeah, it's basically Penzance 2.0 in places.

The Ugly
Good to see Rivet finally ending the Capitalist dominance of Sony and Microsoft by catering for loyal N64 players...



Of course, it's all fine!

They got the stadium right!

Oh...

Conclusion: It's bad.
Rivet, Rivet, Rivet. You created a masterpiece last time out with Bernina - arguably the best-made route in the entire franchise.
Edinburgh - Glasgow doesn't have anything you'd class as "bad" - I would say the 385 is below average but would go as far as bad - it's barely scraping above that label.

This route is, evidently, rushed (I had a feeling, considering Rivet have never released two routes so close to one another until now) and sadly Fife has been the one let down.

I would like to make the joke that 'it looks [EDIT - Jan - Language] because it's Fife; but in this instance, it looks [EDIT - Jan - Language]because it is exactly that, [EDIT - Jan - Language]

This route needs a lot more time.
A lot more.

Delay it, Jasper_Rivet

 

This is quite literally the definition of shooting yourself in the foot.

 

It's being alleged in the Fife Circle thread that this preview is on an old build; in which case: Congrats to DTG/Rivet for losing a lot of non-forums (i.e., less likely to find out) users.

(This doesn't take away from the abysmal timetable)

 

1. Why would you use an old build for the official preview?
2. If they didn't intend to use the old build for the preview, then how didn't they notice it? At least halfway through they should have noticed if that's the case... especially because they plan these preview streams!

There are so many questions if it's really true that they used an old build.

 

If Matt genuinely thought he was on an old build, then he should have stopped the stream immediately and sorted it out. As it is we’ve seen an underwhelming route with a sparse timetable and broken announcements.

I’d like to give Rivet the benefit of the doubt. But honestly I’m not really sure it’s that different from what will be released. Hope I’m wrong.

This is not what I expected after Bernina.

 

What company in their right mind, being proud to showcase a well made product. Would allow an old unfinished version to appear in the big showcase stream? Answer, no company. This is what youre buying. Is it worth destroying your reputation going forward, just to get some extra revenue on that end of financial year statement?

 

Just the points you mentioned relating to the timetable is moving this dlc for me to a "no buy". If the other points are turning out to be true, this will be my first route, which i wont even purchais on sale.

Anyway ill wait for the final preview, but why is it always the same with rivet....

 

Just glad I didn't preorder and it looks as if earlier scepticism re Rivet was well founded.

It's really time for someone high up at DTG to take action and dissolve this partnership.

 

Lmao

 

They should put the release date back a bit, April 1st might be more appropriate.

 

DTG need to step in and force a delay, I've put in a refund request for this route. I honestly want to see Rivet taken off development of UK routes going forward, this is unacceptable.

Also, Bernina was nice. I personally wouldn't say it's the best-made route in the franchise though, not even close. That title goes to either Blackpool Branches or Niddertalbahn.

 

I was about to skip Goblin to save money for Fife Circle as I remember enjoying it in TSC. But after reading some reviews etc. I cound't resist and bougth Goblin AKA Suffragette anyway and I'm happy with it. My payday is 25:th each month anyway... But after todays stream I got both sad and angry, luckily I didn't preorder, but what is this I've just watched? A lot of stuff not working or not beeing there or looking bad, and now the route is ready so there will never be another one, better Fife Circle from another developer. What a shame. I really did enjoy Bernina despite it being half of the route.

 

This won’t happen as console builds will have already been submitted

 

This is what i have been saying.
The Best we can hope for is a post release patch.
Mike.

 

With an RPG.

 

They stopped West Cornwall Local right before release on PC & PlayStation. I believe Xbox are trickier to hold back releases though, WCL ended up releasing a broken build on Xbox while other platforms were delayed.

 

I’m assuming some of the missing services in the timetable are the services that will come with the Class 158 when that releases. I’m not far into the stream at the moment watching on catch-up to see any horrors other than they know it’s an old build and the announcements aren’t working. Continuing to watch with my eyes fully open…

 

I think that is the case. Jasper made more than one reference to extra services but wouldn't go into any more detail than that.

 

Do you really, honestly, believe it’s an old build? It’s due for release in 5 days and this is the only preview stream. No one, but no one, can be so incompetent as to have used an old build for the stream. This is what you’ll be getting, warts and all.

 

The timetable alone will stop me buying this route, which is beyond frustrating as this (after ecml) was my number 1 wish for a route to be created for tsw.

i'm usually relatively positive about new uk route releases (Goblin was a very pleasant surprise and much better than i expected, credit where it's due for that) but a lot of what makes Goblin great is the number of services, playable and AI which makes the route feel alive.

97 class 170 services on this entire route (and at least 11 of those are simply 'Glenrothes Shunt' services at 2 minute lengths, with a few more services of 1 minute if you watch the stream closely too) so actually around 80 or so real services, i actually can't get my head around how anyone thinks that's okay? Who at rivet looked at that and signed that off, thinking that's enough services for this route?

i'm actually beyond frustrated at this, what an absolute waste of an incredible route

 

I don’t know what to believe. It wouldn't be the first time a stream has been done on an old build. They have even released the wrong build on consoles in the past. These things do happen and when you rush things they are more likely. It is also likely that the route ran out of production time and will release unfinished and rushed. They did say they thought it was an old build though so it could be.

 

I do remember them using the wrong build a few times before, so it's not unique.

The stream felt.... pretty poorly organised. I think there needs to be a statement put out by one of the parties explaining the situation though.

 

As I said in the other thread it is such a shame to see Rivet throw this chance of redemption away. This could have been a headliner route for the game but instead, it will go down as a bog standard route with a few gorgeous looking bits and other ghastly looking sections. Then there is the timetable...

 

I do seem to remember there being a couple of cases of 'old builds' before - most notably that of West Cornwall.

I seem to remember a few others (almost all third party) but it could be a bit of nonsense at this time of night.

Surely the jump between Matt's build and the launch one couldn't be that big? It looked almost as if it wasn't cooked.

 

The timetable alone for me is what kills this route, and is the difference between me going fom looking forward so much to buying this route to being genuinely astounded that this has been given the okay for release!

 

Rivet once again with the inevitable self sabotage

 

I posted this on discord

 

The stream also shows 169 services

 

It appears that there are the same amount of services in the screenshot TS Player shows and in the stream:

 

You know what we say here when "people" make the same mistake over and over...

Seems not even the haymarket depot they created in edinburgh - glasgow is includes for depot runs etc.

I dont know what to say...., this show is beyond poor and will probably pis off a lot more tsw customers than the bad audio on a 38 tubestock. Timetable??

But hey, we got working elevators and escalators....

 

Haha wrong build lmao
Everything Rivet makes is wrong build

 

We have seen wrong builds before, they’ve been released, let alone previewed.

That said, there is more than just basic issues here, a wrong build isn’t going to fix the timetable or barren depot, the flat TOD3 style trees that have 0 occlusion & get nuked of any life from TOD4, the awful TSW 2 grass texture, the woeful state of some of the countryside etc. This whole DLC is sketchy to its core. None of what I’ve seen tonight is representative of TSW 4’s abilities.

At best we’ll see the announcements & those buildings being textured. At worst we’re going to get what we’ve just seen.

We should be well past this level of quality, this is frankly an unacceptable farce.

 

Completely agree with the above, unless the build's somehow some massively outdated one that's months out of date it isn't gonna matter.

Actually, let's entertain the idea for a minute that DTG somehow did show some wildly outdated half year old build. That's a major screw up in its own right, it would be awful on DTG's part for ruining a reveal for a third party and potentially tanking their sales. DTG should (and for the record I assume are) double and triple checking with developers to make sure they've got the correct build that they're showing to their customers. The idea they aren't doing that would have me be scared poopless to let DTG ever do a reveal stream for any product I've been working if that actually happened.

 

my gosh what is that building

 

I have to admit that the beautiful preview images also hyped me up. But then the stream brought you back down to earth and I just quickly jumped through a few passages.

Jesus, is this good old Microsoft Train Simulator?


This is embarrassing for TSW4.


Repeating rock formations provide a typical copy-and-paste impression. How could Rivet think this would look good?



Terrible. Or maybe not?


I won't buy it and if I do (if there is money left) it will only be to write a bad review. I'm sorry because I don't actually want to support such a product.

In my opinion the publication should be withdrawn in order to get a better product here, because the FCL has everything for a good route and it could be a top DLC.

Because: That’s good.

 

Between the Forth Bridge and Edimburg the route is pretty nice ! Some traffic with the 385 and the 801 and the scenery is good (And damn thoses bridges are really well done). But after...

 

Agree with everything said here, but the first thing that my eyes fell upon during the stream was the god-awful dark brown ballast that Rivet insist on using in all their UK routes. It just looks wrong, more like freshly dug earth. Also no variety at all of ballast shades, which DTG have actually done quite well on Goblin.

 

Those buildings look like something we would have popped out of Trainsim Modeller for MSTS 20 years ago. In fact even then I think we would have been ashamed to put that level of quality ina freeware route.

I sincerely hope the EP is earning his salary this morning, first of all on the phone to MS, Sony and Steam telling them to pull the route. Next call to Rivet telling them the whole thing is unacceptable, take it back and rework even if it requires another six months to get right.

Otherwise I’m afraid DTG will lose all credibility if they allow publication of this to go ahead.

Rivet also need to be having a serious internal quality audit, time to drop the blasé attitude. If their UK route builder isn’t up to the task then stand them down and either get someone else or refrain from doing UK projects.

 

So much sensationalism on this forum. Incredible really. It's really not that bad at all. Certainly doesn't need a pile on.
Relatively minor things to be fixed, it's looks a nice route and clearly opportunities for future dlc to layer in i.e 158, 156, HST Scotrail & 68? Maybe even a revamped Class 800 with diesel engines.
Looking positively I can see this becoming a bit of a network route similar to the south eastern route.

 

Come on people, constructive criticism can be given without being rude.

That being said, the preview was very sad and everyone should exercise their right as a customer - vote with your wallet.

 

Because this is a key route in the UK with a mainline and one of the most iconic bridges in the world i think it is important that the whole route is brought up to the standards of Southeastern or London to Brighton, there are worse routes in the game but it is clear that changes are needed to vegetation etc and i don't see what is wrong in parts of the line being criticsized.

 

I was quite tired while watching the stream so maybe I misunderstood but didn’t Jasper said, it took 3/4 of the year to make the route ? Sorry to sound harsh but if in nearly a year they made this I think it’s better if they stick to Helvetic routes, I was really excited to buy this route but I’ll wait for a super sale.

 

Especially as the Edinburgh end was already there! Don’t forget that.

 

I have seen better scenery in Trainz TRS2004 - how you can have no textures and just Minecraft buildings in direct line of sight is beyond me. It stands out even more due to the fact that the 170 looks so detailed and well done. Its like putting a Picasso next to a crayon drawing by a five year old.

 

The whole stream and presentation answers given by Rivet reminded me of a politician, trying to secure my vote with promises that will probably never be delivered.

 

Just when I thought I'd give it a go I see a thread like this and immediately remember why I shouldn't hold some content developers for this game so highly... - if Just Trains can do fantastic work, why can no one else? We'd all happily wait - as long as we knew we would be getting a quality product.
Though... it is Rivet Games after all.

 

I was defending this product last night when I got home, as I didn’t have a chance to catch the stream.
I was quick to delete my comment
Those buildings are something out of a PS1 era game with upscaled textures, it’s horrendous.
I had to look twice, just incase my eyes deceived me.
This route definitely needs more time in the oven. At bare minimum delay it by a few weeks.
It’s a damn shame I was so excited for this route. Let’s hope Rivet can get their azz’s into gear and bring this route up to the standard in which we all deserve.

 

If it was cheaper I would say yes I could understand why you would say that. But if this is £30 and then look at the quality of Blackpool which is also £30 why should you pay the same for an inferior product? Just some of the buildings which have been pictured already on here show how bad it is. The the vast spaces of almost nothing in the fields. I think the balast looks terrible as well.