Problem is though Rivets post release support is somehow worse than their initial releases. I said earlier in the thread that Rivet need to have a good release to have a good product. This seems to be as far as possible from it. I'd also like to add how we love free roam. But saying "You can do it in free roam" to questions regarding depots, Railtours, freight etc is not an acceptable answer. If I'm spending £30 on a route (spoiler alert I wont be) I dont expect to have to create half a timetables worth of content to be able to use that route Rivet. This is stuff that should've been in there. "Do it in free roam" is not a replacement or excuse for lacking timetable variety
I have to laugh, it looks absolutely terrible and yet…theres still people shilling for this stuff which really harms the product long term. If i was DTG i would distance myself asap from this or at least delay its release. Ill never understand why people feel the need to take a defensive and positive position all the time. Criticism creates progress and encourages honesty and transparency. This is not a charity for devs, this is about craft, care and effort in exchange for investment. Two happy camps is beneficial for everyone. (Three if you count DTG being a happy host).
What made the preview even worse was that they cued Jasper up multiple times with features people hoped to see and he had to say no to all of them because they were not included. Did they even talk to him beforehand? What a complete disaster.
Yes, the stream itself was a bit of a disaster because it raised a lot more questions than it answered. It’s their main tool for generating anticipation and interest before the release and, in that sense, I think it can be objectively seen as a bit of a failure, regardless of individual people’s feelings on the route itself. Having said that, some of the reaction, particularly the negative stuff, has been disproportionate to say the least.
Is one of the reasons I fell out with TSC, I didn't like the general excuse for a small amout of scenarios was "but you can create your own"
What a failure that stream was. In sincerely hope the route is better but right now my hopes have just be crushed. It was almost like dtg was teasing us when they said they'd do it but then gave it to rivet. Why can't we get a decent Scottish route.
Mate honestly i’m gutted because I was super excited, Haymarket depot being a bit fuller, I adore the 170! One of my favourite trains. And the route IRL is just amazing. But Rivet have crushed that now. 170 looks and sounds amazing but can’t justify spending £30 on that
Just said this much in one of the other threads. Frankly if this goes out the door, then whoever is really in charge at DTG needs to roll some heads in the TSW section and stand down any further involvement with Rivet. All in all this is doing nothing to enhance the reputation of the TSW product. First of all we lose steam, then US freight, now Rivet are allowed to get away with issuing a product that would barely class as freeware quality in MSTS. Maybe it’s time Focus Entertainment took a grip on the situation and initiated a huge internal shake up. Maybe it’s time to admit apart from a few gems the TSW project is struggling to achieve its aims and go back to concentrating on an updated and enhanced TSC, including a console conversion.
I really do hope they get this sorted for Tuesday this route has so much potential and they have gone and butchered it don't get Me wrong it looks fab but there is some bits that are very questionable and why they didn't start at glenrothes with Thornton instead start at dunfermline to show the whole route I dunno
Was really looking forward to the live stream especially after seeing the short vid that was put up showing the 170 going over the iconic bridge as it looked promising but in reality after watching came away feeling a bit disappointed. The bridge does look fantastic & credit where its due there's some work gone in to that & also the modelling of the 170 especially after seeing the vid posted showing the loco being modelled in CAD. As someone who works in Autocad day in day out I can appreciate the work that goes into it. Sadly though its the scenery for me that really lets it down especially the Minecraft looking buildings. I fail to see how you can model & draw up something so complex like the Forth Bridge only to then draw & insert something like the Minecraft looking houses & warehouses that were along the route. Also from the stream at first hand I thought Waverley still looked on the quiet side along with not that much AI passing by along the route. It felt a bit empty to me. Will have to flick through it again on YT. The few days I have been running on the goblin line since it came out & comparing it with what was streamed yesterday for the fife circle, the comparison is night & day in terms of the level of detail & immersion. So yep a bit disappointed really as I was really looking forward to this one.
I preordered this over the goblin line because of the same reason. A not A-B route with a lot of service variation and potential. seeing how dovetail did Salzburg - Rosenheim first and now Goblin they really are setting their bar high after all the negativity they are getting on the forums for leaving out stuff and abandoning routes. if there isn't a public apology and better preview in the coming days I'm refunding fife and getting goblin because to be honest München - Augsburg which is lacking a scenery and timetable upgrade so bad I rather sit as a passenger IRL somewhere than drive that desolate ghost route (hoping on BR 420 updating that one day). I would say MAG is as good as DRA compared to this godawful state of a route. Talking about rivet products I honestly would rather play Arosaline than Fife. And that's saying something...
It'll be the second ever route I get refunded, first being Niddertalbahn. I also can't justify the cost for the route, some parts of the route do look really good, and the 385 running to Linlithgow was a nice surprise, but for all those benefits, the poor quality assets lets it down. Like others have said, Rivet don't have the best track record at sorting out bugs and issues, and i'm not willing to commit to another such issue.
Honestly think the silence from both Rivet & DTG is poor. I’ve not seen the community react almost unanimously before. This route is not beyond rescue. Please delay, fix it and bring us all along with you!
There is this from Jasper earlier. I suspect this route will remain in TSW2 quality, the bare areas of scenery will remain and many of the poor quality assets used will stick. There are large areas of the route that just look cheap. Remember when people were anxious about the 170 sounds, but Rivet were being defended because they are good with scenery? I don’t like the whole tell devs what not to make or whether they should continue development thing, but something is very wrong at Rivet, particularly when it comes to UK content. How this route got to here without any of the glaring issues being flagged is beyond me.
You didn’t like Niddertalbahn ??. What made you refund that route ?. It’s funny how before this preview stream we were talking about the sounds of the 170 needing redone but also how good the scenery will be. And now it’s the complete other way. Improved sounds but bad scenery…. What the heck happened ???.
They are probably in shock. Also it is unlikely that any meetings could be held before 9:00am this morning. The livestream was supposed to have been the route's fanfare......instead it is now starting to look like the complete opposite. Of course the route's shortcomings are the main problem here but, also, someone needs to review whether the performance last night was up to standard. (Too many questions were answered "no".......Too much giggling......Not enough prep?). We know that Matt can do these presentations in his stride. Perhaps he should have done this one on his own?
Well the good news is the 170 sounds aren't quite as bad as I feared. I mean they're still bad, but I can imagine maybe tolerating them. But that timetable is a huge pill to swallow, not to mention the quality of the route itself. If this route was made by DTG and had the same level of quality as Goblin line, it would be a day one purchase, easy. But because Rivet have been given the job, we have an incredibly flawed route that once again has the community questioning why Rivet are allowed to make a mockery of beloved British routes and locos. Someone has to hold them to account. If you have even the slightest reservations about this route, don't buy it. Money is the only language DTG speak, and they'll only hold Rivet to account if they don't make any money off of it.
With his driving, preferably not. I couldn't stand watching the stream due to his driving. Missing stops, constant speeding, and always throwing the power handle immediately into notch 7 when anyone who knows anything about DMUs knows that's not how they're driven. The last one especially doesn't help when I'm trying to listen to how the 170 sounds in lower power settings. But even when it is in those settings Matt would usually be talking over the train.
Should just delay the route and sort out the issues and that timetable can't expect players to use free roam because rivet is too lazy to add more services definitely can't expect players to pay £30 unless you're a die hard fan and incase anyone missed this comment from jasper I'll leave it here will anything happen probably not
I don't particularly like overseas routes, and I gave it a try for the diesel single track line but just found it dull with little repayability.
To be fair, they had to come with something that players could actually do (do it in free roam), because every other expected feature was a flat no. I feel really bad for Jasper, he was not put in a good position at all on that stream. I doubt Matt or Jamie were trying to set him up, even they can’t have expected such a lack of…everything. Absolute shame on whoever at Rivet or DTG (had they been implicit) signed off on this content.
But his presenting style is great (well I think so anyway). I know that you're probably correct in your assessment of his "driving style" but, for me, the livestream wasn't up to standard and was hampered by having 2/3rds of the presenters not playing their parts properly. Hopefully, moving forwards, everyone will learn from this
Comment from User: "Will there be ships passing the Forth Bridge?" Answer: "No, not right now!... Oh sorry, not right now." -Laughter- Pretty comedic. Why not? It could have at least been done as a championship bonus, for example. But the huge empty body of water essentially represents the emptiness of the route. That was all but not good advertising for a new product at full price.
Oh I agree he's a decent presenter, I just don't think he should be driving. He's clearly more interested in talking with his co presenters and reading the chat than actually driving the train, even though he should really leave the latter to someone else. I definitely think they should have gotten Jasper or someone else from Rivet to do the actual driving, and that goes for every non DTG route- get the actual developer to drive. I don't like the current format for preview streams (I'd much rather have a prerecorded run of the route with no commentary), but last night's stream seemed especially bad. Not only for the reasons you mentioned, but I also swear the audio was imbalanced. The presenters seemed too loud and the game itself was too quiet.
I really do think they should have someone driving behind the scenes with the presenters solely focused on presenting. Missing the station stop and then stopping at a station that wasn't required... isn't great. Nor do people want to see the first 5 minutes of a route being, "look at these escalators"
I mean, the fact that the bridge tanks performance so much, in their own words, makes you concerned about what else had to be sacrificed to actually get it stable.
I don’t really feel bad for Jasper. Not clear from the Rivet Games website who does what but I’m assuming he is fairly senior in their hierarchy. He should also know from their past misfires and general background knowledge about the product that this level of quality is unacceptable in a premium priced £30 product.
You don’t have to wonder, the scenery, every other landmark, populated depots, layers & timetable were all sacrificed.
To be fair to Matt, driving, thinking about what to say and talking isn't easy. I can be exchanging trivialities at home and the next thing I know I'm having to emergency stop at a station or signal! I think some of the 'charm' for me of TSW streams is that they are a bit ad hoc and it's not all super slick, so you get to see some things that maybe you wouldn't if it was uber-prepared. Unfortunately, last night's stream went too far down that road, which made a tricky situation worse. Perhaps that's a good thing though because people got to see and ask about things that Rivet/DTG wouldn't necessarily have wanted to draw that much attention to before the release.
I have TSC looking decent enough now. Don't believe TSWs shiny graphics are worth the huge lead times on development and if this is the standard now TSW can stay uninstalled.
I will admit he does make confusing as to what exact involvement he has, it does come across as he has some inclusion in the development process. He did rub me the wrong way when he says things like “we learnt to do this” in relation to allowing controller users to use things on the train. No medal from me for that, congrats I guess for allowing half your customers to control the train. Then there’s “we haven’t done smart PIS” like smart PIS is years old & Rivet aren’t doing it? As I’ve said somewhere else, something is very wrong inside Rivet. Jaspers involvement is murky, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be the person who is the face of Rivet & having to deal with the aftermath of that stream. The guy was all but nailed to the cross last night.
I think Matt just needs to slow down abit & do all the messing around when he’s at a station & not mid-route. I know it’s very amusing for some when he pulls a nebworth (especially Jamie who almost burst my eardrum when he exclaimed said excitement), but it’s not a great showcase of a route. Fumbling with the PIS (which in Matt’s defence, was abit silly that Perth wasn’t in there), or doing a map look around a mile from your stop isn’t going to end well. I like Matt a lot on streams, he brings a good balance between relevant info (most the time, let’s it down abit when he’s going one of those streams where he doesn’t know what his dev teams have been doing), and being entertaining. If Matt wasn’t on streams I certainly wouldn’t be watching the rest of the community team.
Wanted to reply on that post, but after quite a bit of research, this post seems to have been deleted. Why?
The railway line runs literally through the undershoot of RW24 so you would see the whole airport. It would appear the depiction of it is virtually non-existent, just like it was in TSC. I would dearly have liked to have seen Sam on that stream. I’d imagine there would have been a lot less laughing for starters. I was really looking forward to this route, and was rooting for Rivet after Bernina. This is just so far wide of the mark though I’m at a loss as to know what to say.
How can you feel bad for jasper he had no clue what his team is doing and was running the route on an old build and only acknowledging all the issues when the community mentions them all this should had been sorted before the livestream and jasper should have been more prepared
Is it his team though? It was Matt streaming, he had the wrong build loaded, not Jasper. All 3 presenters were doing that, Matt had even referenced he had been playing the route earlier. The blame for all of this lies further up. Jasper should have been more prepared, yes. Jasper certainly should not have been saying ‘not at the moment’ so much, we all know the reality of what will happen. I feel bad for Jasper in the sense that I certainly would not want to be in his position.
So you take the route and you chop it at either ends of the Forth Bridge and you can cross your train on it all day.
The route shouldn't be released the state its in whether they can sort the problems out by Tuesday I doubt it if not it should be delayed until its acceptable to be released
