I can't believe this is still going to be released. DTG should have stepped in and told them it is not acceptable. All PS4 players are getting is a "promise" of future updates. They are seriously going to sell it in its current state. I wonder if the patches will come before or after they fix West Cornwall?
Red hot phone lines between the Medway Towns in Kent and Scotland for sure! This release has been INCREDIBLY badly handled by all involved, let’s see what actually happens on release on Tuesday.
Taking the Rivet statement on face value, I’m glad they’ve acknowledged the points we have raised. Really the severe lack of prep for the stream is extremely poor by all involved. I won’t be buying this on release, but if the scenery improvements are made properly & real life timetable introduced, along with Haymarket depot population and stock move services then I will buy it, but only when all the above has been confirmed & if there are no new major bugs on release that go unfixed.
Noticeable that the thread just posted by Rivet and rubber stamped by DTG to say they will "publish and be damned" has been locked against further comment. Sorry guys but you need to do better than that to convince us the finished product is way better than what we saw (in which case the stream was poorly compiled and produced) and all will be peachy on Monday. You can't do a massive rework in four days, probably less if the "gold" version needs to be tied off ready for distribution to the sales outlets. With at least six threads on the forum active about the poor quality you need to do better than that. Someone still needs to do the honourable thing and order the route is pulled until it can be properly QA checked it meets expectations for a TSW4 DLC. Of course we are now in the weekend "vacuum" when just about everybody from DTG disappears, as borne out by the usual lack of any forum moderation between 1700 on Friday and 0900 on Monday, so best not to expect any further official announcements.
Fair enough. At the point I replied to you I had just become aware of the issues with Fife Circle and I hadn't watched the stream hence I talked about the TSC 323. However that doesn't seem to be the case as such (thankfully), although I'm surprised they didn't request AP for their Turbostar sound files.
This is where I respectfully part company with comments like this. Ultimately, it's up to them if they publish or not. Wait and see what happens, that's what I'm going to do. If you feel the way you do but you're still mad enough to buy before you see the post-release videos and any comments/reviews from early adopters, then more fool you. We all have a choice. And no, I'm not defending them (see my personal views on last night's stream in this thread) but what I'm not going to do is ascribe various motives to people I don't know who I'm sure are just like most of the rest of us, i.e. fundamentally decent people trying to do the right thing in an imperfect world who also, by the way, have feelings. All the faux moral outrage is ridiculously hyperbolic and, sadly, often becomes ad hominem in nature. I'll repeat, one has a choice as to whether one purchases content from Rivet, DTG or whoever and the market will ultimately decide if they succeed.
Not buying until/unless the timetable corrections noted by the community are made. I'll give Rivet the benefit of the doubt on the old build but the sparse timetable is all on them. But the buck really stops with DTG/Focus and they should have forced a delay until it's up to the current TSW4 standard. Otoh, they're up against the end of the fiscal year and already had LIRR2 slip- maybe financially they had no choice? What a weird time in this franchise right now- TSW4 has some great content: Salzburg, Goblin, Bernina, Vorarlberg, and the Vectron are all fantastic, and ECML and AVL are very good IMO- but i'd argue that the sentiment about the FUTURE of TSW has never been worse. From the cancellation of Steam, US Freight on hiatus, LIRR2 licensing, glacial progress on promised TSW4 features...it just seems kind of in free-fall right now. Like nobody's in charge.
Sadly that is an impression I get. Or they are all just treading water while things are taking place behind the scenes. Anyhow better not get too carried away or I’ll be accused of ad hominem again but how can one moment we be getting stuff the quality of BPO, Rosenheim and even Goblin (which I’m only hesitant to buy at full price due to the short length), then poor quality output like Maintalbahn and now Fife Circle. Maybe Focus Entertainment do actually need to get a bit more hands on with day to day running.
About the announcements, a few issues I've noticed are the gap between announcements are too long. Here is an example of what the announcements should say. (Upon train setup) "this train is for xxxx, this train will call at xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, and xxxx, the next stop is xxxx. Passenger safety information notices are located throught this train." (Upon departure) "The next stop is xxxx" (Upon station approach) "We are now approaching xxxx, please mind the gap when alighting from this train." (Upon station arrival) "This is xxxx, this train is for xxxx, the next stop is xxxx" (Upon arrival to terminus) "This is xxxx, where this train will terminate, please ensure you take all luggage and personal belongings with you when leaving the train." Some stops will also have connection information, for example: (Approach to haymarket) "We are now approaching haymarket. Alight here for the bus and tram link to edinburgh airport. Please mind the gap when alighting from this train." Here's a good example of the announcements on a service from Dundee to Edinburgh. (not my video)
If you've ever walked past someone playing the bagpipes in real life then you would know that Rivet have got the volume just about right, not even that sound insulated cab is going to dampen bagpipes.
They may be a realistic volume (emphasis on may), but I don’t need to hear them in game. Imagine wanting to do back & forth journeys & having to sit listening to what sounds like a cat being deflated for 10-20 minutes.
The fact that the Edinburgh-Glasgow line has been included all the way up to Linlithgow is quite cool. According to Jasper, the line connecting Linlithgow to Dalmeny is apparently also fully modeled. That’s actually 7 kilometers of new track! Are there any services that use this? Would generally like a bit more clarity on the inclusion of the Edinburgh-Glasgow line up to Linlithgow and the Linlithgow-Dalmeny connection as that has not been talked about before (except very shortly by Jasper in the stream). Looking forward to next week. Thankfully many of the issues observed in the stream were to blame on the outdated dev build. Let’s hope they can get those extra services added quickly. Along with the Leven branch and the 158, the future really is looking quite good for this DLC.
I haven't seen in mentioned yet....but what was with all the audio hiccups with the class 170 during the stream? I experience these from time to time on other routes when tiles are being loaded.....but it just seemed almost constant on fife circle. Based on the low quality assets on the route shown, it just seems especially baffling
Yeah, same as you. I was late to the party. I got home too late to watch the stream, so I flicked through segments of it before I went to sleep. I didn’t see anything out of the ordinary. It’s only when I was seeing peoples posts on how bad the scenery was that it rose concerns. I read the 170 sounds were done to a good standard, but again I haven’t really investigated the stream fully to give an accurate final thought. Unless Rivet have staff working over the weekend, I doubt much will change from the preview they showed to the final release. More promised updates that will either come months down the line or not at all.
My cat hates bagpipes! When I was watching the beginning of the stream, she freaked out and was desperately trying to get out of the room!
Just seen this on TSWs insta page! Looks like the leven branch will be a free update and 40 new services
All stuff that shouldn’t have been wrong in the first place! And as regards track joint sounds, yes important but on a route where 90% of the run is probably on CWR, only going to be noticeable at points and crossings.
I think that post is erm, something, but in regards to the joint sounds - there are ALOT of joints on Fife.
'Low quality buildings too close', I wonder what they consider a suitable distance is to put completely untextured buildings in.
Supposedly there is strong murmurings that the wrong build was truly on stream. I think by the time it was noticed it was too late to stop the stream. I realise there was talk initially whether it was a wrong build but yeah, we might see on Monday nonetheless.
Yeah, I'm a lot more inclined to believe that it was more c*ck-up than conspiracy.* * - I hope the use of this aphorism is ok, although the forum software seems to replace the word with LOVE, i.e. LOVE-up!
Tbh we've heard rivet promise fixes before and they haven't the 150 sounds and 385 sounds being 2 of them
On one hand Rivet sent the wrong build or DTG/Matt loaded up the wrong one for the stream, I don't think we'll find out if thats the case though. But yeah i think its the ambassadors who are getting new builds who are previewing it on Monday. I'm leaning towards DTG cracking the whip with Rivet and making sure they fix this. FCL is a fairly iconic route and I heard DTG were going to do this route themselves before Rivet offered to do it. Again no confirmed source on this but just murmurings.
Hopefully Monday the route will be much nicer scenery wise. I had a feeling it was the wrong build they showed off… well if that is true…
This wrong build thing… It’s one thing it being on the stream. Care to explain how that’s the build that is the release candidate for consoles? I don’t buy it for one second.
Does anyone have any proof that consoles are getting the build that was shown on stream? I imagine the improvements that were noted on stream will come in a day 1 or future patch. Whether that happens though, we'll have to wait and see but my honest take is that DTG will have come down hard on Rivet so it's likely they will follow through with it.
The building thing, I do wonder whether it was a number of placeholder textures that *somehow* got missed. I would like to hope nobody placed it there and went, yep, that looks good.
This is all conjecture though. And, to be pedantic for a moment, if the stream was done on a PC, then that build definitely won't be shipped on console. In terms of what ships, lead times come into play, which probably vary across platforms, hence why the stuff shipped often isn't the latest internal version. Also bear in mind that, depending on what version control is used, each version of the software is pulled together from work being done by several different people, so there's a certain amount of synchronisation management that comes into play.
Yes, it seems implausible that the wrong build was accidentally released to consoles AND on a prepared live stream. If this did happen then Rivet are incompetent. If it didn't then perhaps we are not getting the complete truth. I suspect Rivet employees are having a very busy weekend.
The build used last night excluded various fixes that had already been made, so you will hear announcements and track joint sounds, and not see the low quality close up buildings in the version that releases next week on PC. Console versions may have the latest build later than release around 10am on Tuesday, due to the release process on each platform. We appreciate your patience as we align the builds. That says to me that the build that was on the stream was the release build, and was the build sent to Sony and Microsoft. I can’t see any other way to read it than that. So, are we being lied to or is someone just not doing their job properly?
I see what you're saying but consoles not having the latest build is not the same as saying it is the same version as what was seen on the stream, although it might turn out to be that way. The use of the word build is unfortunate as that is a (platform specific) output (binaries etc.), not an input (code, art, etc.).
That's how I read it too. It is one thing being sold a LOVE product, another being lied to. It's not just the low resolution buildings, it's the bland countryside and vegetation on the northern section, the crudely repeated rock formations, the low resolution textured on bridges, the farcical bridge at the northern terminus station, patchy lineside vegetation throughout... You've got to hand it to Rivet. I thought West Cornwall had set a high bar for terrible scenery, but this clears it in street shoes.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I can believe it's possible some absolute freak combination of factors has lead to the wrong build being submitted and was discovered late enough that it'd had already been sent to all platforms. I assume they went into the preview stream with that very same build, unware of the mixup. If they'd realised even a little ahead of time I think the stream would have gone ahead but with a frequent disclaimer akin to the post Rivet posted yesterday. Presumably it's quicker to get an urgent update out to PC than it is to go through the Xbox and Playstation approval processes which is why they seem to be acknowledging ahead of time the possibility that they can't get the update to consoles before the route goes live. I don't think the "true" release build will be a night and day difference but I can believe the build that was previewed is missing some fixes to things like LOD spawns which is why we got such a good look at those low-detail buildings. I think things like the greenery are likely to be unchanged.
Getting back on topic, as I have posted on Rivet's own forum. Jasper_Rivet, can you confirm if you are looking at adding the Edinburgh - Dunblane 385 services to the timetable too? Why these weren't added, but Depot to Glasgow QS were, which aren't in EDN, seems so bizarre?!.
When did it become acceptable for a party to release a half finished pretty much early access route and then just patch in the missing content? Is there no quality control anywhere?
