Inspired by this post I went to have a look at that part of the video. I was stunned. I was expecting maybe there was an issue with it being a bit low resolution because the LOD hadn’t updated when the asset got into close range, I was not expecting the bridge to not be there at all. To be clear to anyone who hasn’t seen this, it was the railway bridge that didn’t load not the second furthest road bridge that also couldn’t be seen and British Ace was playing on Xbox Series X. The bridge only loaded when he was just about to cross it.
So this may be explained here - https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/psa-a-dire-lack-of-mountains-on-xsx.79884/#post-817173 This does still mean that the issue would persist on XSS, but it’s not clear at the moment if this a route issue or just an Xbox issue, until someone checks on PS5 we don’t know, as it’s loading on PC.
can confirm in no exclusive pre judgemental state what so ever that it doesnt couple to the Class 150 lol Hentis
Oh come on… I‘m certainly disappointed with the current state of the route and probably won’t be buying it until it’s on sale and the major issues have been rectified (if at all). But let people spend their money how they want and don’t gaslight them.
> manipulate (someone) using psychological methods into questioning their own sanity or powers of reasoning. Not quite sure how telling people not to buy a product so we can get the developers to do better is gaslighting...
You're not going to get Rivet to do "better" the majority of their sales are going to come from console users who aren't going to be looking at this forum. The only people that can make Rivet do that are DTG.
It's also unfair to every dev outside of Rivet's team. DTG developers as well as other third parties. Some people spent weeks if not months to get a thing like the airport in Edinburgh realistically rebuild in the best possible manner on their routes (just because they got the passion for it to do correctly - it isn't even a costumer demand, it's a demand of quality by the developers themselves to the product). Selling a DLC for full list price which is missing half of the landscape and timetable traffic is unacceptable by all means. It can't be that some developers think their on their monopole's king throne (the response of CM employees to some costumers fit perfectly to that) and pick out to give a product a quality of their choice and do whatever they want with it. Unreal engine's performance is a true problem creating routes, yes, however there is enough evidence illustrated, both in the livestream preview as well as ambassador videos, that there clearly is a lack of detail (and with that work) on the company's side. And this is innegotiable in any kind. Even a promised upgrade somewhere in the future wouldn't really even out, the damage they already done. They have a chance still though. But very unlikely that the Fife Circle will become the Cyberpunk 2077 of the Train Sim World franchise and Rivet Games will at least try to even out their failures and mistakes and give an apology to the whole costumer base, including even giving refunds to their product from their very own side. And now almost 4 years later this game has fairly reestablished its name and regained faith of the costumers. But just because the developers commited their failure and did best to improve the game and even out the fails at the release of it. I wonder why DTG kept completely silent yesterday and even up until today. Matt is active in the forums probably reading the receptions of it, but his latest post was short before the livestream preview on Thursday (before it all happened). Alex came up on Friday evening and brought us the notice that Rivet want to sugar coat and promise some major important upgrades within the next months. Since then no interaction to the players and the community. Clearly noticeable that the feedback is doing something behind the curtains, not sure what is is nor do I know whether it has an impact on the DLC or Rivet's future plans, but one thing is for sure. This maybe marks a historic spot of a change, not only for the content released but also the practices going under before releasing a DLC. And honestly, It would be very nice if this entire mess at least influenced that and make that TSW and Dovetail Games kind of get onto the (no pun intended) right tracks again and let the TSW franchise become a better product for hundreds if not thousands potential costumers, who either went away because of the TSW4 debacle or even new costumers who never got into the franchise because they refrained due to an inequality of price tag in relation to quality in content released in this franchise.
is it? Or is this another pointless community argument instead of targeting our anger at the developers....
That's exactly what I have been thinking about lately. We have heard NOTHING from either Rivet or DTG after the promises made by Jasper on Friday. I'd have thought that either of the parties would SURELY address the concerns that have arisen within the community, because honestly, what we have heard from them so far, is utterly insufficient. If this debacle doesn't bring the point across that the community wants change, I'm not sure what will. Especially Rivet's behaviour on their own forums, I mean... man that's the textbook way to alienate your customers. Read back my previous replies to this thread and see that I've been on the milder end of the outrage but seeing how players (customers!) are being treated makes me clench my fists. Well, I guess you could e-mail them. I'm not even sure they're aware of what's going on. All in all, I believe it's high time for DTG and Rivet to step in and calm the storm that has been stirred over this release with at least a roadmap of how the issues raised by the community will be fixed. I believe we are owed that after years of support for this franchise.
Good point. I don't get the second sentence from the update post from Rivet Games, either. "We are also still committed to adding the Leven branch to the route as a free update. We’ll start working on it once the branch has been re-opened in real life (scheduled for June 2024)." I mean if they would have problems like in Germany where Lidar probably is publically released for the entire country up from June 2024, there is no reason why a dev team can't at least start building a branch right at the moment, even if some parts of it are maybe not yet finished and therefore hard to exactly replicate. You still can start to build a basic route plan, including some tracks which are sure to be there, the distance scenery as well as modelling iconic buildings along the route. There is no need to wait for June to do that. Therefore seems like a not trustworthy promise to me as well. Bet that I'm wrong though.
A future bundle that includes the 158 would be nice. Ignoring all the issues with this route the only other thing that puts me off this route is that it comes with one loco in the base route a trend that is becoming all too common again, especially for offputting for longer routes/more expansive routes. The timetable mode for the 170 is disappointing, when I saw the preview stream it shocked me. 97 for the 170? Also very surprised at the lack of Flying Scotsman or any rail tour at all, that should be a default go-to these days to help bulk up the timetable and depot moves.
And if they did? No more Scottish Routes for anybody, so while it wouldn’t bother me, not so nice for those that it would impact. No doubt somebody will try emailing them, but that could spoil it for everyone.
Sadly I fear the opposite might prove the case. This situation has demonstrated despite the numerous forum threads, the overwhelming petition and the lacklustre reception from the ambassadors and eve of release YT previews they could get away with releasing anyway. Then we had the unrepentant and somewhat arrogant defence by Rivet on their own media, the brace of new forum members suspiciously popping up to try and discredit the criticism. Obviously Rivet and DTG aren't going to do the dirty washing in public but the fact DTG have just gone along with it gives real cause for concern over what they will try and get away with in future. Both first and third party content.
It's obvious in my opinion: They didn't have the desire, time or resources for a good quality route. And they obviously have no desire to do anything more than what is absolutely necessary. You can see clearly in the example of the airport, the missing third bridge over the Forth or the 2D buildings, where they simply removed one, so they basically took the easiest way. Basically, none of this is a problem. Rivet can do that, but they shouldn't expect that everyone celebrate it. What is LOVE is labeled as such. I get the feeling that Rivet also wants to be praised for her sloppy work.
Hello - I'd like to mention a couple of comments to help this conversation. Firstly, since the thread Rivet shared on Friday, our teams have been preparing for the release and working with the Rivet team to understand the improvements they have been able to make so far. We've been active in a few threads across the forums, as well as in other community spaces to share some of these changes. Our ambassadors have also been helping us share this, as well as an early insight into any feedback we'll be logging from the community, which we are very grateful for. As an example of some images Matin (TrainSimPlay) and other ambassadors have shared yesterday which highlighted the scenery improvements from the preview: We are still taking the community feedback onboard, and we know there's other elements that still need addressing. Rivet have commented on their commitment to post-release updates that bring more improvements, 30-40 new services and will also eventually include the Leven branch. As for the wording about "looking into it" (regarding updates), this is typically the type of response we use when communicating something that hasn't got a confirmed timeline so that we can manage expectations. Of course, we will keep you updated when we know more about this. As I've said, Rivet has openly committed to adding this as a free update in the future, so you can hold them accountable to that, but right now they don't want to set timelines so they can allow their teams the needed space to gather accurate references once the branch is publicly available to visit, so please be respectful of the time needed for this to happen. I hope this helps, we're doing our best to support Fife's release today, and working with you all to gather reports to our development teams that support an upcoming patch for further improvements
Fair comment DTG Alex , but still doesn't explain why DTG signed off on releasing the route with all these issues outstanding instead of throwing it back for more work to be done
People have a right to spend their money how they want. If they enjoy the content that is their business not yours it doesn't make them brainless! Getting personal is distasteful and speaks volumes.
Thanks for the update! It would be great to get a full list of planned improvements for the route all in one place. So far I've yet to see information on improving the airport and the vast empty landscape for huge portions of the route...
whilst this update on the state of the game is welcome, i for one cannot and will not purchase this route until: a) the timetable is VASTLY improved, not just with 30-40 services but improved to actually resemble the real life, busy working environment this route should be b) the glaringly stark missing scenery is created, which for me the number one issue is the completely missing Edinburgh Airport c) Haymarket Depot is ideally accessible with ECS, or at the absolute very least is populated with static Class 170 stock, just as in real life if you or anyone at DTG or Rivet acknowledge these issues and move to implement them, then i (and i imagine a whole lot more people) will happily purchase this route. until today i have purchased every single modern-era UK route released on day one or very shortly after.. so for me to not feel able to purchase Fife Circle on day one or even in the near future shows just how far behind this route is in its current state, compared to where it should be
You always say "we don't have a timeline", "we are looking into it" - the main problem is 1. these problems shouldn't even exist in the first place and 2. it's always what your responses are to any kind of negative feedback. Sure, playing the tactic of letting the house burn down, wait for everyone to forget what happened and then act like nothing happened is easier than actually giving a damn about your work and your community when you know you have a quasi-monopoly. It's not against you directly, but rather the people in charge making these decisions. "Don't shoot the messenger"
Can we also have one of the biggest offenders on this routes scenery looked at too? The swathes of 2D grass. It is everywhere, even at platforms right next to you.
First, Alex, I know that you do as best as you can and cannot say anything else in your position (which is more than reasonable), but basically what you describe all has been said before and the few scenery improvements some members already found out because of the ambassador videos. But the problem is people have no faith in that these changes will indeed come (due to the reliability of the developer). Also the wording of the update post from Jasper makes me concerning as Fawx already pointed it out. They are not even saying "We will do that" or "we're already on to solve X or Y". They're just comitted to receive the feedback. But that is not enough. Where is the apology from Rivet Games delivering a halfhearted made product? Where is the commitement to that they did something wrong and want to apologize for their behavior like CD Projekt Red did with CyberPunk 2077? It's not your fault we're angry. It's their behavior and response to the paying costumers what is.
So in the feedback thread someone has just found the E2G track work all the way out to Glasgow… TSW 3 references found in manuals… Odd lighting across the route… Assets that look real old & not comparable to current scenery… Rivet suddenly releasing 2 routes very close together… If I was to speculate (and I know we all love that), I’d say we just got a route that was never developed or planned for TSW 4.
TrainSimTV has uploaded his video on the route and he's just talked about the foilage seeming rushed, the trees are all the same colour. As he said its a vital part of a route build and needs care and attention. Bearing in mind he has experience using those tools specifically. Both him and Dadrail both said it just needs a bit more polish. Like it does have so much potential. But its feels a bit like MML when that released and I don't honestly trust Rivet to put the work in that SHG have?
Thanks for the reply Alex! It's great to hear from you addressing some of the issues raised on the forums. However, as you can clearly see if you have read this thread from the beginning, part of the outrage is about the PR surrounding the release of Fife Circle. Probably everyone understands why the developers intentionally use vague language when responding to comments about future improvements (managing expectations, as you have put it), I feel like this has to change though. What has been said in this thread before has been constructive criticism for the most part and what has been promised by Rivet barely addresses any of the major issues raised within the community. Adding to this, the disrespectful, demeaning, condescending and snarky behaviour demonstrated from Rivet's side on various media certainly isn't helping (especially, but not limited to every single AmScot comment, plenty of examples found in this thread, as screenshots). Knowing that the criticism has been heard by Rivet is a bit of a relief, however these are nothing but empty promises except for the few commitments they have actually made regarding the Leven branch and the 40 odd railtour and heritage services as you have mentioned as well. There have been no comments or promises made about the following issues (and please keep it in mind that this is an incomplete list from my own recollection): Freight services The emptiness of Haymarket depot Depot moves and ECS services Incorrect ballast colour Many have pointed out the low quality distant scenery throughout the route, no one has addressed these concerns. Even your own ambassadors had huge gripes with this! The repetitive trackside scenery (especially the rock formations that have been reused multiple times along the route) There are missing trackside fences along the route Subpar assets near the tracks, including houses, warehouses, industrial areas The 3rd Forth bridge completely missing The Forth bridge rendering and performance issues Edinburgh Airport and its surroundings are missing (landing planes are also missing) The Class 170's sounds require tuning, especially the announcements (wrong bell, also the gap) I'm fairly certain you have a list similar to this internally, and I believe the community would be happy to know that these concerns were at least acknowledged by the development teams. We understand that fixing these issues is probably a massive undertaking, which is why many have said that the release of FCL should have been postponed as the current state of the route does not meet the expectations of the community, especially after the release of instant classics such as Blackpool Branches or the Goblin line, or heck, even Rivet's own Berninalinie (so I've heard, I don't personally own that one). Hoping to have these issues (and the ones I've probably missed) addressed in the near future. Thank you! EDIT: and sorry for my poor English, lol
i'm sorry but this is /thread. Great summary, if we could get a confirmation of what's going to be fixed / improved from the above list, this would put our minds at ease, so far empty promises are all we're getting...
yeah investigating and fixing issues might take time. but they'd do a lot better if all of the problems mentioned were heard or seen and on some list to be worked on. the only way the community stops or quiets down on the distrust is when there is some actual communication about the questions that have arisen. I get that rivet might be unhappy with the backlash and it has been getting emotional, with some unprofessional responses from rivet to boot. but that's human and it happens. as long as no statement like a "we'll look into this" or "this is it and deal with it" gets released. only speculation and hope is what we can go off, and the hope in any vague answers there might possibly be an optional fix if you feel like it. after knowing the amount of other DLC that never got the fixes they deserved. there will be no forgiving from the community. This isn't just a normal amount of people wanting the absolute perfect or best possible. I think 80% of the community will not get this dlc ever if nothing changes and I hope. albeit sad for the potential of the line. this is the point there is someone who wakes up and realises changes are needed. the unfinished releases without looking back can't keep going on. and I'd hate to see this community get to an end.
Appreciate Alex jumping in here nice to see someone respond the mountain of criticism but you have to ask where are Rivet today? Why aren't they explaining in detail what went wrong here and what they will do to remedy it? CDPR did that when they released Cyberpunk in a state , Rivet seem to have gone into a hidy hole today....
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/members/dtg-alex.35889/ If you go to 'Recent Activity' and click his top post
They were being passive aggressive to people over on the Rivet forums they haven't been seen here since Friday
My personal speculation is that LIRR2 missing its release window severely impacted DTG's finances and they had to scamble to get something else out the door before March 31st. Circumstantial evidence points to a June/July 2024 release: Would have been timed to the opening of the Leven branch (why would they have planned a route extension for a few months after release?) The Skyhook 158 would have been day-1 DLC (that's probably where some of the missing services are) Clearly rushed/incomplete scenery work and other detailing (off-route destinations, etc) Maybe it was even something DTG had done most of the basic work for previously and it was put on hiatus for some reason or another. When was the first mention of the LIRR2 issue? Could a bare-bones route have been built out to the current FCL release in that time? Edit: FCL had a pre-order and Goblin didn't, which i still find very odd.
