I certainly do, I won't pay for mediocrity, it's half the reason why this country is in the position it's in, people supporting mediocrity.
do you not complain when you get cold fries from a fastfood place? Also I think if most people aren't happy with a game these days they refund...
Wise words. As I indicated earlier, it's not as if we are starved for content and this was the first UK route released in ages. Even without the quality issues and amateur level PR exercise from DTG and Rivet I probably would have left it for a sale. One advantage of being on PC is that we can run the route with a Class 68 in TSC which is most enjoyable.
Rivet can make a good route we saw it with the IOW 2022 I don't know about the Bernina line cause I didn't buy it but they are capable just a shame Fife circle is a big let down
Another advantage and one thing I'm really looking forward to: Ambitious modders can get their hands on improving the scenery of Fife Circle. This even is possible due to the "Scenery overlay system" in the PC Editor, but was possible already before by some people with the dedicated knowledge in the unofficial one. I can see great results from that in the future, however a poverty certificate for the original developer. As a side note here: DTG please give us the cooking feature natively and officially into the Editor, to distribute it to people. I don't want to rely on the community fix only.
You mean "people supporting tories" for sure? Anyways, i mean if people decide to use their money to buy the DLC it's as much fine as people who decide to not spend their money on it. I can understand both sides. The 170 is well done. If you're buying it because it's your favourite train or your local route (or whatever reason), that's absolutely okay. But I also agree with RobertSchulz - saying that the route has a great scenery is indeed a bit unfair towards other 3rd parties, DTG and all the poople from the community who work on their passion projects and already seem to have more costum assets than Fife on the whole route.
Speaking as someone who hasn't bought it yet. You have no right to tell people they are selfish for spending their own money how they want! It's none of your business. This isn't a workplace union. If someone wants to buy the route because they will enjoy it, it is their business not yours. Statements like that are more likely to make those wavering, purchase it to spite you. No one has any right to tell people what to do on a forum apart from those who run it. Some on here should remember that just because you don't like a piece of content doesn't mean everyone has to agree. You aren't that important.
Intriguing... I failed to get off the train at Linlithgow, and the train continued onwards to, I think, Glasgow Queen Street. It stopped at the intermediate stations as well... This begs the question, could this be re-issued as a combined route in the future?
I can well imagine that there are enough people who buy it out of spite and leave a positive review - even if the content has glaring flaws. Unfortunately, this doesn't help anyone, because Rivet then feels confirmed by their 'minimal policy' and the majority of users won't get any higher quality DLC in the future either. Of course everyone can buy whatever they want, that's out of the question! But anyone who closes their eyes to obvious errors and still protects the developer (in all respects) is not benefiting the franchise and its development. Criticism can and must be objective!
Probably not, because Rivet even stated to have performance issues on the scenery of the Fife circle, yet. In fact, there was a discussion going on, whether this (the existence of the complete line to Glasgow) might be the reason of the stated performance loss in this thread: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/fife-circle-feedback-thread.80074/#post-817356
You would have loved all the posts in the forum and steam about Arosa also having beautiful scenery by probably the same grup of people that either smoke something with more of a punch ore ignore the medic subscription for glasses. Ultimately your own opinion is recommended when you make purchases
It’s the definition of selfishness. It’s feeding yourself before the community in my eyes and it takes strong character to do the right thing. it’s my opinion just like it’s yours to refute it.
Well at that level of debate I could easily argue that someone expecting someone not to purchase something they like, because said person doesn't think anyone should be buying it, is equally selfish. Do you think the community would not purchase something because I didn't think they should? Of course they wouldn't. I make my own decisions and whilst I am still lucid of thought will continue to do so. Belittling others for wanting to purchase FCL, which I have seen starting to crop up, as happened when TSW4 came out, is hardly the act of people wanting to promote a harmonious community. Next week we will be asked to picket DTG offices!
I doubt very much anyone is going to buy a piece of DLC they don't want to leave a positive review. Yes criticism should be objective. However let's aim objective and constructive criticism at the creators and not start having a go at other users!
There’s often the criticism that routes don’t have the variety of trains they have in real life and also that loco DLC just substituting for some services isn’t good value for those purchases. That would be the case with the 158 as it is a second version of an existing train in game. The two developers have obviously worked together to come up with a combination that works and it is a shame that the 158 didn’t release at the same time. The fullest experiences in TSW routes are often when a route is combined with a loco DLC or many of them. It’s a balancing act for developers. It would be helpful if we knew what services the 158 was going to cover but I guess until it is nearer to release we won’t know. Other omissions may have other reasons which does seem to include running out of time to add more.
With all due respect I fail to see how complaining about users who don't engage in good faith criticism is better than just flat out replying and engaging with people who do just that. I would point out by your own logic your constant complaints about bad faith criticism might ironically be generating more of it out of spite to your posts. Personally I don't think it's a simple as that mind you, but if you're gonna make that a point against people you need to check that your own actions are in line with it.
To be fair I think the argument here is that he’s telling people not to buy the product not because he doesn’t think anyone should but because the endgame is that we all end up with a better product… which is unlikely to happen when people throw their money at LOVE on a stick because they’re just desperate to try it out..
Anyone wishing to buy this route and say on the forum that they have bought it should not face any questions as to why they have bought it or face that silly notion that not buying something will somehow improve it or that buying it will hinder improvements. Feedback from both observations of other people playing and people actually playing are required. That requires some people to buy it now and they can also provide feedback on what is good about it. Imagine if nobody bought it and there was no feedback on how well it performs or how good or bad it is to play, how would anyone ever find out, and how would the developer know what fixes are required? There may be bug reports put in for things we don’t know about yet and those can only be reported by people who have the route. They may even be enjoying themselves, the ultimate crime in parts of the community. There is enough feedback already on some aspects of this route that many people have stated need addressing and that is all great but some other things can only be found out by actually playing it.
Yup bingo. To suggest I don’t want anyone to enjoy anything is churlish. What I’m saying is if you want to see less of this type of release, money talks. It’s not that difficult. Why can’t fife circle be a very busy, enjoyable route with beautiful well crafted scenery, nice trains, solid timetable and potential future add ons? It could and should be but won’t be if they can sell any old slop.
The developers can read. It's the same with every other game/dlc out there. It's very clear from previews and community feedback. nobody needs to buy the game for them to figure that out. Also I'd argue they clearly knew it was bad given the hostility towards users on their own forums and the absense of them here today. Unfortunately due to users not taking a stand, all of the below will probably disappear into the abyss because people couldn't hold off for a couple weeks.. Thankfully at least the community are at least review bombing it, Rivet, balls in your court...
But there still keeps the problem with Rivet's behavior in this case. No official apologies and admission for providing a faulty product and dissapointing costumers with it. No guarentees that they are going to enhance the product, only "commitments" that they're looking into it. No sight of view that they even show a bit of understanding of the complaints raised. Instead, they either keep silent waiting up enough people buying it still to keep the business on going or community managers "vent" (and yes I use the same wording which they did towards costumers now) on constructive feedback of some costumers. Where is the acknowledgement from Rivet Games to say "We delievered a product which is not up to standards we aimed for and we are very sorry to having disappointed many of you."? I mean already such a little gesture would proof so much to restore faith in them. But honestly, the behavior now only strengthens my impression of how careless they are about the well being of the costumers. And I really don't want to give my money to people who clearly have not a glimpse of understanding for their faults. In such a way, I'm not even willing to test the product, if they don't care about my opinion amd feelings, anyway. Let alone having faith in the "not technically even correctly said" promises about what they would look into as upgrades in the future.
Can we stop with this don't buy it nonsense. Let people decide for themselves how to spend their money, if they want to support what is viewed as a poor product, let them.
Oooh cute the concern troll is talking to its own sock puppet. If only we were all so selfless and benevolent!
I do definitely agree with added dlc filling stuff out look at NTP, TVL and SEHS really makes a difference. I think the 158 releasing would be good and I am all for new reskins to pad out routes especially the 158 which is excellent! I just mean that this 158 is not an excuse for such a poor show by Rivet missing out so many layers and services is all. Because even without the 158 there's still a boat load of traffic and variation that could be added
The trouble is, them supporting a bad product just makes everything worse for everyone else, I wonder just how bad it would need to be for the enablers to hold off, dare I say that isn't possible?
Not everyone thinks it is a bad product! Even if many don't think it is perfect it doesn't mean they won't enjoy it and it will provide value for money or then. Using pejorative terms like enablers is again belittling people. I wonder what this community is which people speak of!
Wont happen, a lot of people just don’t care about the quality, someone here the other day hit the nail on the head with “you can drive a train on a track” & I think that really is a standard people have. Realistically I do think DTG care about their quality, we’ve seen them bring things up to a decent standard after a poor release, and whilst they are very capable of releasing very poor routes, we rarely see one that is actually very bad quality. The problem with Fife Circle, is that Rivet either really do think they’ve made something high quality (and regardless of where you stand, it flat out objectively is not high quality), or they simply feel no shame at a level high enough for something to be done - this I feel is supported by Rivets com teams’ attitude in various places. I think there will be changes made to the route, but I think DTG will be the driving force behind the scenes, because there are things wrong with this route that the consumer should never see at this stage. Unfortunately, all the foliage being one shade of green & the flat 2D textures will very likely be there to stay. Other things such as the airport, BurntIsland & Queensferry may get changed IMO, but I’m not expecting any overhaul. The timetable & Haymarket depot will probably see some improvements, but in all honesty they need to at least double the service count on the 170’s to get to a realistic level of traffic & I just don’t see that being a reality.
I don't need to check my actions. People calling out others because of their own frustrations is out of order in my opinion. I don't care frankly what people say in response, If their maturity levels cause them to act out of spite then that is in plain sight for all to see and make their own judgements about.
I can't think of a better term for someone who is happy to support what is an objectively poorly produced addon. The sole reason why DTG don't have to worry about quality that much is because they've gotten away with it for so long, there will be a critical point at some point though, they can't keep pedalling rubbish forever simply because there is no competition.
This comment is baffling. If I get cold fries, I let the staff know and get a new bag. If my broadband stops working, I tell the provider and they go fix it. If my TSW route DLC is broken, I report it, the sometimes say the register it and then it ends on a dump with other problems. You see the difference? If I got cold fries, told the staff and they told me off, YES, I would leave and not return. If my provider said "well too bad", I am changing the provider. I am not a punching bag for bad services, nobody should be. Have some personal honor and stand up to it, if you get treated badly by a business you give money.
Their days are finite, I can see someone coming along (Microsoft or other) and they'll pull a Microsoft Flight Sim like they did to XPlane
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but I noticed that the reverb on the bridges seems to be rather hit and miss some work and some don't? But when they do work it is great, actually sounds like it should irl. Waiting eagerly for more layers.
Depends who does it really. ETS/ATS still hold their crown despite various attempts from others, OMSI 2 is still the go to for busses, despite its archaic nature. I really do hope for a competitor, DTG are showing the classic signs of a company that holds basically all the marketshare, but the reality is that history isn’t in our favour.
Anyone can recommend to someone they don’t buy or do buy a certain product, talking about have to or not shouldn’t come into it. though definitely agree not everyone cares about quality, which isn’t good and best of luck explaining how you don’t care about a product whilst buying it if you count yourself among that. Many is probably new users who’s priority tends not to be quality but how soon another dlc releases.
People have bought the DLC despite suggestions they hold off, it is what it is. I guess the next best thing right now is for people to put feedback on steam and other stores. Hopefully that'll get Dovetail and Rivets attention (because clearly they're ignoring everyone)
I definitely got the impression critical feedback wasn’t a welcome sight to either of them this time around tbh, seems more they saw it as getting in the way of selling the product rather than constructive feedback to see to sort.
Sorry I was meaning reviews.. Because ideally if it gets a negative rating people will be less likely to buy it (you can hope) forcing their hand.
It has objectively poor scenery in many places, whether or not that makes it bad for you, it certainly isn't up to the level of a lot of other products. Surely we should be able to expect a consistent level of quality for 30 quid?
Sensitive bunch on here. I get a warning because someone calls my posting troll like, which is flat out not true (I post negatively and positively accordingly) and I tell them they should be able to read posts properly. Utter craziness.
Unfortunately, we all have different standards. Some go for quality, others quantity. Whether it is bad or not is subjective and a matter of personal taste. Personally, I'm not buying it, at least not until the ScotRail 158 comes along. Only then will I consider a purchase, providing the timetable is also up to standard.
I paid. I'm super happy with what I have, I find the road very beautiful. The only thing that bothers me is the empty Ai train level and in the depots but that's all. I don't really care what you think about that. I spend my money how I want. [EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]
There is no need to try to bait people for a negative response. There is nothing wrong of you liking the route
I would never criticise someone who purchased a route I thought was subpar because I've been there. I was a day one buyer of NYT, even though I pretty much knew it wasn't going to meet my expectations. It had issues with scenery ( principally NYC ), it was short on rolling stock and AI traffic and worst of all it had a seriously depleted timetable. But I bought it anyway, even though DTG actually declared that they were not going to improve the timetable. Well, they eventually relented and improved the timetable, and added some other missing elements although it will never be the " wunderkind " of US routes that it could and should have been. Do I regret my purchase? Not really. It's worth it to me to be able to drive the Acela at full speed down a well-made racetrack. With TSW, we have to make compromises, because the quality is often less than we would like, less in fact than it was at the very beginning with SPG and other initial routes in my opinion. And frankly I don't think there's much difference in quality between DTG and it's partners. So let's try to understand both those who buy and those who don't. Both sets of players presumably have their eyes wide open and are fully aware of what they decide to do. I bought Goblin and didn't like it and refunded, probably to the incredulity of most of the forum. But it's my money and my choice what to do with it. And whether FCL sells or doesn't sell, it won't have much impact on DTG's and Rivet's future plans.
