There is not a single piece of content released that I have bought where I have not discovered a bug that I haven’t seen mentioned on the forum, and I certainly see many issues that haven’t become huge talking points here. Every DLC I buy, I see issues nobody has talked about. Developers can’t read about that or any other issues individual players find before release, Bugs that are console only aren’t usually seen in any previews. That’s changing with some ambassadors showing preview streams but you can’t tell if a controller issue is present from seeing a video. You need to be playing it. Now you may be wondering why I haven't flooded the forum with all these issues I have found. That comes down to how important I see my reporting of them in relation to other things I have to get on with in life and the likelihood of them being fixed if I do report them, so I usually don’t bother. I’ve been meaning to get some screenshots of the house that changes size depending on how close you are to it. It’s in a couple of routes and I don’t see anyone talking about it on the forum. I’ll get round to reporting it one day. It is impossible to get everybody to not buy a DLC. Absolutely impossible. And a few more people not buying won’t be noticed by Rivet or DTG even if the loud voices here could persuade them not to buy something. Abstaining from buying makes little difference, if any. I don’t know about that. Their communication has always been poor. I don’t go on their forum and I’ve only seen one reply from Jasper that could be taken as rude even though I didn’t think it was. As for them releasing the route when the deadline came and not holding it back, it doesn’t make much difference in the long run if they fix things before or after release. I can’t think of any other behaviours that have been any worse than they usually are.
I ended up buying it just to see for myself. It's not nearly as bad as the preview made it look, IMO. They really did themselves a disservice with that awful stream. The 170 is quite fun to drive and nicely modeled. The route itself is....fine...i guess. It's certainly not top shelf, but not the worst we've seen either. Not having ever travelled on the real thing here's my issues in descending order: 1. Timetable is very weak. They should use a pre-COVID timetable to make it busier if needed IMO. If they're saving timetable slots for the 158 they should just tell us. I think it's dumb to do it that way but at least it would be an explanation. Empty depots and no freight is mind-blowing to me- come on! 2. Missing off-route destinations on the PIS. This is a personal annoyance of mine as it's very immersion breaking. 3. Sloppy scenery. These have been noted by many. The worst offenders for me are the grass textures that seem most prevalent around Glenrothes and northwards. It looks like a poorly rendered manicured lawn. I can't imagine that's what Scotland looks like. I didn't notice the missing airport since i didn't know it was supposed to be there lol but that's also pretty bad. Overall i'd say 6/10, but it's definitely capable of much more. I hope they make the effort to bring it up to its potential.
I wonder if they realized that they wouldn't be able to complete that building in time, and the reactions to the other bare-bones buildings in the stream made them decide that it was better to delete it than leave it there unfinished. Good question. DTG has different teams for the timetable and scenery. Does Rivet, or is Rivet too small and so people work on multiple aspects?
Dare I ask what all that drama involving Jane was..? I heard so many people talking about it but still don't actually know what happened...
Just the track or also scenery, got any pictures? I guess the scenery except the stations won’t change a lot until the line is opened so they could’ve already finished the scenery all the way up to the first station. But why would they work on a part of the route that won’t be released until mid-late summer while the areas that are part of the actual launch-day route suffer from lacklustre scenery?
Track and signals only. The terrain is correctly shaped up to Leven. The track reaches the Leven river, Up in front of the distillery. (See the route map). I believe, given the presence of the Fife Heritage Railway right in Leven, that we'll receive the additional services with the opening of the branch.
The thing I really don't understand is the tracks to Glasgow QS are there, as is the line as far as Linlithgow, but the scenery is off, lots of floating grass. And the lack of Dunblane services on the 385, literally just a copy and paste of the EDN timetable. I understand the non-north berwick or tweedback ones, as they haven't been featured yet, but still. come on I do echo the reason for the out of date route map posters to be replaced with more modern network maps and such
Skyhook couldn’t do the timetable either. Now they fixed it later on but it’s pretty clear at this point that DTG are the only party capable of giving us a full dynamic timetable.
I will say there are some very nice pieces of scenery on this route. This is the approach to Burntisland.
Maybe different parts of the developement should be handled by different organs/companies. If a third party dev isn't capable to accomplish a certain piece of work on their own, right in time and accurately, DTG or another third party dev could get their hands on so that it can be done in a reasonable timeframe. Outsourcing instead of not being able to deliver or deliver without effort. I mean we all know, the only real issue which is in the way to that is the condition then to give a share of the cake. And as we all know, for the business mans at DTG or any other company:
What I aimed for was more the thing that their behavior to the recent happenings, is really outstanding (maybe more than it was in the past - I don't know because I did not experienced the rants already happened at Rivet (including that I also have no back history with them being possibly biased)) and their behavior to that, taking the release of Fife circle in comparison to any other company sending out a faulty product, where costumers where so united in feedback. Apart of neither an apology nor an actual statement they really are about to improve and even out their mistakes (and this right in time), they show no sign of even being responsible at all. As opposed to that some employees even go out on some costumers and vent out hot air on them when providing said feedback. Nowhere at any business in the world, something like this is practicable. The company immediately would lose not only the faith of the costumers in buying the product again, but also important business partners which collaborate with them. But since we speak of Train Sim World, another time just showcased, everything is possible in this world. everything
I don't get the hate for this Route. Yes there are some building textures needing touched up and some timetable mistakes that I'm pretty sure can be fixed (don't need 40 minutes to get into Waverly from Haymarket). But if you've been playing since 2017 - or 2023 - and don't realize yet that we customers are beta testers, you're not going to realize it I guess. Fife Circle line is very much like many other Routes on release, and like others, will get the attention it needs as our feedback gets processed.
Different people have different opinion. One says the scenery is absolutely perfect for them (heard several of such calls here in the Forum and on Steam reviews) and others find it disgusting. Both is okay to have, but as it seems the majority of people are not okay with how the route was released. Yes, they can be fixed. But the question is: Is it going to be fixed? The problem is many people know DTG and Rivet standards to that matter. Well, I'm not a Beta tester if I have to pay more than 30 $/€/£ for it. And I'm also not someone who has to support neither the company nor the complete franchise in an unlimited manner. There are enough things out there to spent your hard earned money on (for products where developers do care about feedback of costumers and even provide refunds if quality level was not met exactly), no need to endlessly buy products as a kind of donationware to support a creator, which is not willing to say they did something wrong nor are really about to change something. The route does not seem to fit at least TSW4 DTG standards being released as a TSW4 route and not one for TSW 2. The thing with whether feedback really is heard and processed also seemed to have become the second major debate in this discussion after the actual admission to the issues on the routes. Would like to say again for the upteenth time, there are no scenery improvements to come to within the next weeks or months officially stated, yet. Everything else is guesswork, which shouldn't be the case if Rivet would response correctly according to the feedback raised in the last 7 days.
You can get an idea of what it could have been like by looking at screenshots of the DLC Ringbahn Berlin for the TS: A runway, terminal, a few static aircraft and some navigation lights would have made so much difference. What we got: Which we even got in TSW2 (2021), including aircraft landing/taking off: Back to Edinburgh and what a missed opportunity for immersion: Only about 30 meters from the embankment are the iconic “landing lights” (unfortunately I don’t know what they are called exactly). How cool would that have looked at night, even without planes landing! The railway line runs at the bottom right. You can see the huge storage areas for aircraft. But of all the surroundings there is simply nothing there.
if rivet works the things out we could have a very very good route specially if they could merge this route with E2G even now i have fun but only with the 2 mods which are avaible ^^
Seems like the best endorsement people can come up with is “It’s not that bad bro” “We’re beta testers anyway bro” “It’s only missing a little bit of everything bro” I’ll think I’ll just wait for this to go on sale for like 5 bucks. Route should be fixed by then, if not, well it was only 5 bucks. I’m not paying 40 bucks for “not that bad bro” McDonald’s isn’t that bad but I’m not paying wagyu prices for it
Played a bit more- ran an Edinburgh-Dundee service in the 170 around 4pm and it was quite nice- I think i like the scenery better on the eastern part of the circle. Especially around Burntisland and Kinghorn. After getting to Markinch, I spawned a DRS Class 66 with Seacows (MOW train?) and ran it to Haymarket platform 0 with the idea of reversing into Haymarket depot. Weirdness ensued at Inverkeithing where after a yellow signal it routed me to the opposite track and kept me there all the way to Haymarket 0 with no signals in between. I passed an Edinburgh-bound Class 170 being held for me approaching Haymarket. Is this an express routing of some sort? Anyway i never was able to reverse into the depot- couldn't get a red signal to clear. All good fun though
I'm also a bit of sick of the hassle in always newly upcoming argumentations like the route wouldn't be "bad at all" and its siblings plus the backpedaling of others to not lose the argument. This is a discussion thread with raised feedback. Everyone can have their opinion and can like the route in its current state to the bottom of their heart. However, there are some things which urgently need to be improved (timetable and scenery wise) and I wish that we all simply could agree on the argument that the route is simply not worth the full list price and some things need to get improved soon. That's simply the reason why the negative folk is holding its argument. I have nothing against the route itself and even refrain from buying it myself, but just can't because quality standards are not met in my opinion. As someone who loves airplane traffic and unique and new features to any DLC in TSW, I feel very bad for the fact that Edinburgh airport was crafted so half-heartedly. It's a pain. If Rivet Games can fix the issues and improve the route to become a much better one, we all have won and have very nice route to play with. Don't you all agree?
I believe this is a dispatcher bug. It'll try to route via the shortest path which, if going around a bend, can mean you take the inside corner even though this is wrong-side running. I remember GWE having this issue with some services before it was fixed, but Free Roam is showing dispatcher's limitations. One solution for you would be to add Go Via points along the route to keep you on the right track.
Watched the first 40 minutes or so of DadRail's first run. Pretty much confirms what I thought about the route - it's just... mundane. I mean if this had come out in the days of TSW2020 we would have lapped it up but the standards have moved on. Not so much bad as just bland. The Forth Bridge does look nice but seems all the effort went into showcasing that and not the other 49 miles of route. Even the stations look rather clinical and clean. The 170, well from what Richard showed the model looks nice and the cab and interior are very good. However, I just cannot relate to those sounds. They seem nothing like a 170 either IRL or the various ones we have in TSC. And what is it with that noise like a hornets' nest that seems to play continually in the cab even when the power is off? Maybe in a sale and if we get the SHG 158 or a classic traction timetable but have to say not for me.
There does seem to be the odd patches of really highly detailed scenery, along with patches of no scenery, it's a very bizarre mix.
That makes sense. Out of curiosity, I wonder what services use Haymarket Platform 0 IRL? The PIS just said "Welcome to Haymarket" like it does when it's not being used.
I think they design the route in quadrants. So you end up with ones that had detail applied and ones that clearly just have the auto generated scenery.
Had another go of this this morning, another issue found.... Loaded into Edinburgh in timetabled mode at 10am, loaded a reskinned 158 into platform 14 and set a path for Inverkeithing. For some reason the dispatcher crossed me over from Line Y after the mound tunnels onto Line W up through platform 4 at Haymarket (E&G Lines) then crossed back over to the fife lines after Haymarket Depot when I should have continued on line Y through Haymarket platform 2. I was following a fife bound service out of Edinburgh and got stopped on a red to allow it to clear the section ahead before crossing back over, when the signal cleared it only showed yellow, the route indicator to indicate crossing over onto the fife lines stayed off, Also tried on free roam with no AI and the same thing happened, didn't get stopped obviously but got a green with no RI
Platform 0 at Haymarket is used for ECS movements. Trains will arrive into the platform and then head into the depot or leave the depot and head into Platform 0 before heading to wherever it is their service will start. Wether it be Cowdenbeath, Glenrothes etc.
Disappointed by the update today about the circle line. There was absolutely no mention of scenery improvement's. like the pitch black bridges at night…
Maybe, but the standard back then was pretty good to be fair, there were some cracking routes. Sandpatch was really well constructed with some nice scenery placement and GWE still holds it's own to this day tbh. NTP and Tees Valley were really well designed, I find the countryside scenery on those better than the recent ECML really.
Yeah, he only confirmed what we already knew. Heritage services and railtours. This managing expectations thing makes me want to just puke. Honestly I can't even decide if I'm frustrated, infuriated or disappointed. Probably all of the above.
Don't know if mention but ther is a couple of azuma services wonder if they can be put into the timetable that go along this line as should be drivable
Remember that in reality Heritage/railtour services have the Leven depot as their reference (yes, the new branch). The Fife Heritage Railway, which runs heritage tours on the Circle, is based there. We would need to introduce the 802 bimode for that.
I agree. In terms of quality, I don't think we've come very far since those early routes. Looking at scenery, lighting and gameplay, can anyone really argue that the current standard is a match for SPG and TVL etc. Blackpool is looking like an outlier. Goblin is too short to make a useful comparison. But the recent crop of commuter routes would have had eyes rolling back in the day.
I will admit I was skeptical of this route based on all the “feedback” here before the route was released. I’m noticing on the forum there are very few positive posts still, though negativity traffic has died down 90% after release. I was skeptical, but I did buy the route. My observations are this. scenery is much better than expected in driving view. Yes, some things are missing, but things such as water detail, stations, etc are really good! Also worth noting I’ve done 9 services now and have not had a skip, lag, crash or wrong signal (I know, traffic right). my first few goes during a rush hour time, I passed 7 total trains in 50 minutes and when I loaded from terminus, 4 trains were in the station not including “mine”. there are some obvious things that could/will be fixed. I know the airport is an eye sore, as well as the bridges. Well, coming towards EDN there is a turn right before you get into a short tunnel that to the right shows the second bridge (sorry don’t know the name) in all it’s glory with a view straight down across. It’s kind of a beautiful visual before you ever see the Forth Bridge. I have always thought the one thing that hurts simulations in general, is that lack of surrounding graphics. The lonely yards/stations where it should be busy is a problem, and very noticeable. GWE has really good layers etc. even if freight or whatever is not on the route, it is a welcomed sight as a driver for 50 minutes. Traffic is strangely exciting to see when driving along! I feel the route got bad press from the get go, deserved, based on their own showcase and stream. That is why the negativity exists, on top of the fact that there are “trustworthy issues” behind seeing that stream. the issue here is not the routes as much as a dedicated community of buyers who are very attention to detail. All the companies know what to expect by now, and know the backlash that will occur if not done correctly. Some warranted, some not. In this case the backlash is not warranted for the route itself, but for the release, stream it looked completely like a letdown based on the shared images, and then comments from the company really added fire to those issues, which I’m sure will be tough to recover from. The empty yards, stations etc is really silly to miss and NEEDS immediate updating too, as it just looks so stupid empty and how Rivet could miss this easy issue is concerning. I am in marketing that deals in retail sales, and it is nobody’s fault but the presenters when first looks are given. That is something that CANNOT be done at 50,60,70%. That can’t be updated later. I’ve heard this “wrong build” before. Seems like a pretty simple thing to check beforehand, yet no explanation is ever given. That is an issue with the “promoter” and expected backlash will always occur that is quite costly each and every time. Sorry for the book length post!!
Quite a few people seem to think the route is bland - is that partly because the modern prototype is also rather bland? Part of the problem is that the stations outside Edinburgh are fairly dull modern structures with similar lineside furniture. There are few yards or sidings so it is mainly a straightforward commuter line, with little opportunity for interesting operation. Had they set it in the 1960s there would have been local yards and signal boxes plus the Leven branch. There would also have been some charismatic diesels such as the 26s and 27s, plus first generation dmus. If you are going to do modern routes you need to choose those that offer more than just a single train on a single type of service
Not sure if anyone else has experienced this, but the 700 sounds jump in pitch every time there is a stutter? I don't recall this happening with other routes/trains? And whilst I think the train sounds are generally very nice, I feel some of the sounds are a little distorted, like the AWS warning?
They really need to add some static AI locos outside the depot. Skyhook did it outside of Derby and it’s not much but it makes a pretty dead area feel somewhat alive.
I had a partial first run of the route the other night. For me the route has such extreme highs and lows that it really does feel like it was pushed out before its time, more than any sort of lack of effort. Local bias means I'm always going to enjoy more Scotrail content, and the Fife line one I've yet to travel on in real life so the route really appeals to me. I'll admit I'm not very well-read on the 170 but I've really enjoyed my brief time with it so far. Very pleasant to drive and, for me, a much nicer cab space to occupy than the 385 for the visibility alone (entirely prototypical, not a complaint). In terms of the route itself there's not much I can say that others haven't already covered. Everything south of the bridge is of a more cohesive decent quality, of course partially borrowing from an existing route. The empty Haymarket depot is the only big thing I noticed (I literally passed by it IRL on Monday) and the Edinburgh and Glasgow terminuses really need a lot more people in them. I've not explored the full circle north of the bridge yet but from what I've played, there's some very pretty areas and some which feel like a rough draft that was meant to be refined in a later pass that they never had time to do. See below for my experience so far summed up in two screenshots. The first really did make me laugh, and the second really made me appreciate the potential this route has. As I say, a route of real highs and lows, I'll look forward to what Rivet do with the route over the coming weeks. There's a workable canvas here for them to create something excellent, I hope they make full use of it. Spoiler Spoiler
Oh my god…. And I honestly thought It was just me going mad hearing the 700 in my head or something. I knew it haha. thanks for pointing that out. Creepy bug that one lol.
