I’ve been procrastinating for years on trying to HUD-less. Finally decided to give it a go this past weekend. Absolutely 100% worth the effort! The game has gone from one of just following game prompts to relying on your memory and “training.” I really recommend giving it a go. Also, this being an open discussion, I’d like to read about your tips, tricks, specific runs you like to do, maybe runs you’re having trouble with, etc. Here’s how I’m going about this: Notebook and pen Load into a service I want to no-HUD. Use the HUD for the first run aka training run. Note stop, distance between stops. Note hill starts, speed limits, braking points etc Write down landmarks to and sometimes signal numbers to help me identify #4. (Ex: step 1 brake at comm tower on left for upcoming speed reduction to 50) For speed increases, I’ll go into photo mode to and identify something that tells me when rear of train clears the marker. (Ex: parallel with start of fencing on right = increase to 65) Time the passenger loading period; this means I do not need the HUD at stations either, especially when I have departure times memorized/written down My notes often look something like this: leave stop 65 mph line speed. Big red factory with silos on the right indicates 1 mile from stop. Go into step 1 braking shortly after to hold speed down 1% Step 2 at blue bridge Stop marker is mid platform Once I’ve done a couple of runs with no-HUD, I’ll generally be able to close the notebook and do it successfully without. Sometimes I wish I had access to route maps with these details already on it, but I think I retain info better when I write it down by hand. Anyway, I’d love for this thread to turn into some route “note-sharing” at some point. I plan to share some of mine at some point, I just need to figure out a nice legible format.
Once you get used to a route, no HUD is definitely the way to go. You get to become more intimate with the route's scenery by designating landmarks for certain things (i.e. start braking at this fenceline for the station stop). I mostly rely on memorization/trial and error for this. Maybe jotting things down on a notepad as I go.
I've done this the odd time on routes I know well, but only when I've got one stop to make. The only problem I have with station stops is waiting time. Sometimes, you're stopped for 30 seconds, sometimes 60, or even longer in some cases. It's then challenging to know when you've finished loading as this varies on some routes, even if the stopping pattern is the same. For example say I'm due to arrive at Station A at 20:00, departure time is 30 seconds later. If I'm late by around 10 seconds, it's hard to identify when I'm able to leave. Although in cases like this, having a list of stops, arrival, departure and dwell times would probably help.
Also from experience these are some of the more forgiving routes for your first no-hud services (totally subjective obviously): Goblin, East Coastway, Cathcart Circle Line, either IOW due to them having trains that are fairly easy to stop + fairly simple UK safety systems. Blackpool is slightly more challenging since you have a lot of empty fields and less recognizable landmarks so on the way to Poulton-Le-Fylde I’m using “sheep field” as a point of reference. Very curious to see how I’d handle Bakerloo since you’re in tunnels sans landmarks quite a bit. High speed seems daunting but I’m definitely give Acela a go on Boston Sprinter soon.
I suppose toggling the HUD back on during stops isn’t the most immersion killing thing. I’ve been timing my stops and loading time seems consistent along the same route, except sometimes it’s slightly longer at the first stop. I don’t have the passenger loading down to a science yet though and sometimes the HUD will have to get toggled
Absolutely agree with this. I found the ECML Rather boring with the HUD, but having learnt the route without the HUD it is definitely a game changer.
I can imagine no-HUD improving the experience for a lot of the high speed routes. Especially if one doesn’t have the passenger loading times down pat for some of the commuter routes. Less worry about loading on ECML, Mainz -Koblenz 103 runs, Kassel Wurzburg, and the like. Heck, I can imagine the DB BR 101 being a good time no-HUD.
BML is also a good route to go HUD-less on. Not too many speed changes, signals are relatively easily to spot and memorise and there are many landmarks and obvious gradient changes
I started doing HUDless about a year ago and do it on most routes now. - On the German routes it‘s easy as you have the kilometer markers everywhere and as long as you have a list of where the stations are, away you go! - For the others I also make notes. As for the station stops I toggle it on then off again. That way I can also see how good time keeping to time.
Greetings! I'd like to join the not HUD Club. The best tip I can offer is name things; if you use a landmark learn what it's called to make it more mentally memorable. Keep your learning very close to the track so that in low visibility you still know where you are and what you need to do; for example TPWS grates, ASW ramps, signals, repeaters, towers, sides of underline bridges, and so on. Have check down speeds for example: approaching Linlithgow I use the 2nd underline bridge after Avon Viaduct, and make sure I'm at 55Mph for the next over-line bridge to make sure my speed is coming down OK. Listen to where you are; for example reverbs can tell you you're under a bridge, flange sounds can tell you that you're at the check rails for a certain junction. Feel the curves, or in our case note the cab sway. Learn what a real train driver is expected to learn and I use books from trackmaps.co.uk to help with this. Download the regional Sectional Appendix from Network Rail which features speed limit maps; I had to use this on the Fife Circle in Train Simulator Classic because Dovetail only programmed the route with enhanced limits whilst including a loco hauled service that can't use them. Take note of special instructions for example, departing Glasgow Queen Street you are not permitted to exceed 15Mph until the front of the train is parallel to your start signal even though the posted limit is 20Mph. Different speed limits can apply in certain weather conditions for example: a Class 158 in Scotland has to stay 10Mph below the maximum speed limit in certain winter conditions, but only where these limits are above 50Mph, and brake step 3 must be taken every 2 minutes for a reduction of 10Mph. Have your own set of core routes that you drive regularly so for me that's Edinburg Glasgow and the Fife Circle. Something thing we can do to help each other is if we make a little network of videos where we can specialise in our own core routes. I have a YouTube channel and I'll offer two example videos here: Edinburgh Junctions tutorial: , Edinburgh to Aberdeen: . Since Blackpool Branches has been mentioned remembering the names of the crossings can help with knowing where you are for example: ,and download the route learning document in the video description. I don't want to be the only person making stuff like this because I don't have the time to learn every route, but if I am going to try a new route a head start is always appreciated, and also I have some strong dyslexic tenancies so get things wrong like my left from my right, and commentary is a major weakness of mine. Finally I think we need to feedback to DTG that we need a control only HUD like the one in the one of my afford mentioned OpenBVE videos because although I know the Fife Circle, I can't drive the class 170 without a HUD; I loose track of where the controls are as there is no feedback on a miskey and I can end up thinking I'm in idle then going for the brakes and nothing happens! We also need a proper dispatch system so that we have a guard to buzz us away from stations, like on some Train Simulator Classic routes. Driving trains is about driving the train 'and' the route so it's about time DTG ought to cater for those of us that want Train Simulator World to be a Train Simulator. I'm looking forward to seeing how this topic develops!
I’m definitely not ready to go no HUD anytime soon… I’m just too spontaneous and wouldn’t want to change my settings every service depending on route knowledge. But I’ve really liked the introduction of the mini HUD. If I leave the track monitor on and turn off all the other HUD items (score etc.), I get a nice line along the top of the screen with all the necessary info and nothing more. Because you no longer have the precise distance to signals and speed limit changes (the track monitor is pretty useless for that because the scale changes dynamically), you start looking out for the actual signals and speed boards in front of you. Same for some in-cab dials/displays. Pretty cool and a nice step towards being less HUD-dependent!
Some really good feedback in here. Which is really going to help me and probably a few others out quite a bit!
I do think that going HUDless is the aim of each route, and there are only a small number of routes where I wouldn't be able to confidently do a run HUDless, though that is because I haven't touched them in a year. I have always found route learning rather easy as I like knowing how a place looks and having mind maps in my head and so I just used this method to learn in TSW, though when learning I did do runs as driver but with HUD, rather than just riding the trains. All my notes just consist of seemingly random names of people, things or places mashed together to relate to a thing, or a thing that happened nearby in a way that makes sense to me! Something that is difficult to do in TSW is learning the routes well enough in the dark and/or thick fog as you can't rely on bumps and joints in the track or the feeling of going round curves to guide you. I do love it though and try to get routes to HUDless within a week as that is what I am looking for to get true immersion and nice to know I am not the only barmy one turning down the help the HUD provides!
At the moment I can drive 3 routes without the HUD, and I have learnt each of them in completely different ways. East Coast Mainline The way I learnt this route was by using Track Diagrams to mark key junctions & locations and using basic landmarks. For Example Travelling north from Peterborough, I have memorised: New England North Junction (First notable junction departing PBO. Werrington Junction (Diverges to Right - Heads towards Lincoln) Helpston Junction (Diverges Left - Heads towards Melton & Leicester) Tallington Crossover (First notable location & crossover) I then know that when the 4-track section ends and it becomes 2-track, dependant on your speed that is a great coasting / minimal braking point for the 115 drop into Stoke Tunnel. I then know to begin braking at the left curve for Grantham. Glossop Line: For this route I watched DadRail’s video. Because he points out only the very key / essential information, it stuck almost instantly. I made minimal notes from what he was saying throughout his video, but I very rarely actually needed to use them. Southeastern High Speed I actually never made any notes for learning this route - I have just driven it so many times that it comes naturally to me. Once you understand the in-cab signalling, the HS1 section of the route to Ebbsfleet / Ashford is actually the easiest to learn. Other Advice As I believe others have said, it’s best to pick a couple of routes to learn. Realistically, drivers don’t learn every single route. Route learning does take time, so don’t beat yourself up if it takes you several months. Finally, the rule of “Use it or lose it” very much applies in this case. Once you learn a route, you should drive it fairly regularly to keep familiar with it. If you don’t, you could have to learn it all over again. Depending on my free time, I try to drive the route at least once a week, twice if I have the spare time
I was thinking about your post when doing a late Markinch to Waverley this evening: in the dark and with fog. Driving tip for fog: if you are on night running lights your main beam is lighting up the fog directly in front of you and obscuring your vision, so try switching to day running; this is like the principal that when driving a road vehicle in fog you should never use main-beam headlights. When driving to enhanced speed limits like a Class 170 following the HST boards consider whether your schedule really needs that little extra; so there is a section between Kinghorn and Burntisland with a limit of 65/HST 75, and maximum power only takes the train to about 70Mph anyway before you need to prepare for the end of the enhanced limit, so this evening I just took the train to 65 there and ran to schedule just fine. On my approach to Edinburgh Gateway I normally come down the gradient at 90Mph and when I see buildings ahead on the right I start braking, but this evening with poor visibility I came down the gradient at 85Mph and started braking parallels to the buildings where I could see them and made my stop with time to spare. Using audible reference points can be useful too like the reverb in a tunnel, or change in rail running sounds on some track sections. I hope these little tips can help, and maybe others will have more. This is turning into and interesting topic because it's all about driving. I've ordered a Raildriver so will be doing some Fife Circle route learning videos soon with a physical handle ensuring no throttle and brake handle guesswork.
I sometimes wish there was an option to have AI control the doors Great points on low vis driving. Seems like the Markinch services allow for a little more flexibility; the Glenrothes service schedule seems a bit tighter. In any event I’m pleasantly surprised with how much fun the 170 is to drive HUDless. Need to attempt a low vis run to see how well my landmarks hold up at night.
Really great content. Your commentary is fine! I’m cursed with a new york accent and nobody wants to hear that outside the tristate area lol But yea, this is the exact sort of content I was hoping to see. Great advice on the crossings at blackpool. Knowing the sephamores also helps, which seems obvious, but without AWS in most areas it helps to pay attention to them as some warn of speed drops to like 30mph Hoping to learn this route well enough that I can get comfortable running it with the class 47. That’s going to be a lot less forgiving, with braking and accelerating being a lot more of a process
I've tried driving without a HUD on several occasions, but for me it doesn't work for two reasons. First, as others have noted, I don't know when to close the doors at stations; and second, closing the HUD also removes the crosshair which I need to operate the controls in the cab. The first one could be solved if there was an audible "depart" signal like the whistle or buzzer trains rely on in reality, and the second if the crosshair was made independent of the HUD, but for now (unless anyone has any solutions to these) I'll be reluctantly keeping the HUD.
Interesting thread as I have started experimenting with Concept HUD ideas and also having the HUD on a seperate device. I use the Rivet Maual images as I have got back into driving EG Express and the New Fife Circle and use them on a seperate screen.
This is why I think we also need a HUD opacity slider, that way we can keep the HUD but with it barely visible so it’s not so intrusive.
Wondering if there are people who drive without HUD on steam locomotives. You don't have a speedometer and also the speed limits are often not displayed on signs.
I've just been trying out my new Raildriver for use as a control locator and that has been an absolute disaster! TSW has a springy lever annoying feature which keyboard players will be all too familiar with and unfortunately it catches out the Raildriver; so with just a few power applications and idles it gets dynamically de-calibrated. Things are so bad with the Raildriver that for the Class 170 it's actually easier to try timing keyboard inputs. I want precision.control so I tend to drive the Turbostar like: P2 to engage the hydraulic transmission and get the wheels turning, then to P3, above 5Mph P5, and above 20Mph P7. Generally going straight to full power isn't the done thing with DMU's. I did find that I can turn off the HUD through the TSW Accessibility settings but keep the messages, however this actually makes things worse; with this option you can't use F1 to bring up the HUD for passenger loading info, and without a guard there is no way of knowing when the game is ready for you to self-despatch. I did at least find some further minimisations for the top left HUD but I still want rid of it just keeping my control messages for precision driving. That is a very interesting idea! X-Plane used to have an iOS app that used an iPhone or iPad accelerometer as a flight yoke for X-Plane installed on a Mac, Linux, or Windows computer. The Yoke also had duplicates of the aircraft gauges which were normally out of sight, and sliders for the throttles and rudder. Imagine laying a phone flat on your desk and having control levers customisable for every loco or unit! I really hope you've started something here!
I'd like that. To be honest, unless you're one of the admirably hard-core users who are prepared to put in the hours to do proper route learning, the game only really works with some on-screen prompting to make up for the user's lack of detailed route knowledge. So any options to make it less obtrusive would be very welcome.
Just finished making my own notes for FCL, check it out if interested. https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/fife-circle-line-hudless-driving-notes.80291/
I would love this for routes that I use HUD on; I actually like when the HUD glitches out after a pause and it’s almost barely visible
I have to do this at some point… but I feel like if you do this, have to absolutely not care about score. It’s going to be the purest, most original form of driving… you’re eyeballing everything, including your speed lol Maybe don’t expect a perfect run for a while, but after lots and lots of route learning and practice you might be able to tell when you’re going 30 vs 50 in a jubilee. Don’t want to switch tracks at 65mph or so lol
