Is There An American Future In Tsw?

as for those in this thread who say that US passenger rail is not viable, why do it etc... first off, good public transport, especially rail, is rarely a thing that really earns tons of money, even in Europe... it mostly has to be well supported by the government and state railway company... because it is done as a public SERVICE... like, nobody can tell me that OBB really makes money doing all those upgrades, preserving small local lines, even BUILDING new stations in literal villages with not many ppl living there... and even those have at least 1-2hrly service

and second, if passenger rail and public transport is handled as it is in many places across US, like a necessary evil, a nuisance... with stations in the middle of nowhere from the actual towns, redundantly huge parking lots, very few trains etc... thats not going to attract ppl to rail

like... again, a maybe far fetched example, but still - Hainburg an der Donau (like 8k ppl) / Wolfsthal (at most 1,5k ppl), those two towns in Lower Austria have a train to Vienna every 30mins... and Hainburg has 3 stations (1 of them is 2tracked so one train can go to Wolfsthal while the other to Vienna)... now tell me how this earns lots of money ... but still it is there

 

Uh oh, it wasn't the charity stream weekend that did you in, I hope?

Thanks as always for taking the time to write a detailed reality check.

 

High Iron and Milepost would be nice too.

 

Milepost still has 1 more TSC route to do, so they are way off of coming to TSW. HIS is starting to become the EA of Tsc. Attempting to release as much DLC as they can between routes, retro packs and scenerio packs. With various quality between releases.

 

Hi Matt, I hope you feel better soon. You are right, it is key to have the right posture. I usually am in my computer chair when playing TSW and other simulators and every once in a while, have back spasms where the pain can be unbearable for a few minutes. I have had this for years but I definitely agree with the points you made on posture. Physical therapy has helped to reduce and ease the pain. I would like to try out a sit-stand desk sometime. I think one can be more productive with rising desks vs a work space designed for only sitting

I really appreciate the transparency and feedback that you provide to the community. It's good to know that work is happening in the background regarding US content. Despite the challenges with licenses and reference material from some of the railroads, it's good to hear that there are possible alternatives and that we make the best out of what we have in TSW. At the end of the day, I am glad that we have these roadmaps and feedback to look forward to and am thankful that we have a great library of routes and content to look forward to as well. It's also great to see how accessibility has also improved within the simulator, making TSW enjoyable for everyone

 

Good advice. I tend toward Tall Guy Posture myself, unfortunately, and do sit too much to boot. I did yoga for a while some years ago and that helped noticeably. I should look at starting that again.

Swift healing!

 

hey matt what about US fright cars is there challenge making them.

 

Really love the insight and insiders perspective here Matt and appreciate you being transparent with us. It sounds like many of the things the community wants aren't fully accessible (at least not to the extent that they can be done accurately), and some of what's accessible, the community would probably not like. I hope you all will continue to work as hard as possible to bring quality US content to us. I hope SBL and the unannounced (but we know what it is) other US route are strong so the US community can continue to grow. I do agree with some of the other commenters that having more to do in a freight route would give it more of a draw. It may not have been popular for whatever reasons, but I liked what you all tried to do with Clinchfield and the turns. I'd love to see that concept expanded with multiple locos having a whole day moving around industry scheduled out. I think that and breathtaking scenery will be the things that draw more people to US freight routes.

Does the team have a plan for doing trainings and tutorials in such a way that younger and non-US players understand why US freight trains behave the way they do and don't assume them to be broken or what not? I for one could have a stroke from the number of people in the TSC Discord's driving help channel who ask in all caps "WHY IS MY TRAIN NOT MOVING?!?!?" and the attached video is them releasing from full application and punting it into notch 8 on Cajon in under 10 seconds. One would think they'd understand from the tutorial that the brakes take a few minutes to release

 

I think freight cars are fine as there are plenty of photos online of them and there's no interior or sounds to model. Locomotives are the hardest thing to get right when their owners will not cooperate with you in the slightest

 

I may be wrong but I've been told freight doesn't really run on FCL. There is a modder working on a new timetable that fills out the services and adds more variety though based on a real 2024 TT.

 

Get well soon Matt!

I’m certainly one of those who would appreciate the depth working a short line railroad would offer. We all know how popular Run 8 is and Railroader is coming along from strength to strength. Obviously not going to appeal to those who want to thrash uphill on full throttle or barrel through the prairies at 60 MPH but that’s no different to any subset of the genre. I’m not a huge fan of stop/start commuter and would much rather be driving an 86 or 87 from Preston to Glasgow, but it didn’t stop me buying, and for the most part enjoying, the likes of Goblin, BCC or Glossop.

 

Yet still there are lot of bugs in existing route addons which keeps freight fans away from dtg products. First take care of old ones, make good loco and cars substitution (like german one), fix cc livery substitution, fix eotd and dpu... etc. Then reconsider future of us freight ptoducts. Disabled products dont do much for selling point favour.

 

Understand the position in putting time into something that potentially wont translate and sell well as route DLC, but does it not offer the potential to get 5 or 6 new loco's into the game (model/sounds/detail), which I would see as a huge benefit.

Dependent, on what those units are, they could then be available for reskins on future routes or even better, some era specific freight routes from yesteryear in the US.

 

I can't help but notice that this "transparency" is missing for other issues...

 

The US freight routes are the only routes I own where I can fall asleep and wake up 40 minutes later and haven’t broken the speed limit, missed an objective, ran a red signal or derailed. I guess if you can fall asleep and it still not make any difference to what would have happened if you hadn’t then to a large number of people it would be quite boring sitting through that section of the route with nothing to do. In some of the services on Cajon Pass it can take well over an hour to reach the summit from San Bernardino and once on the uphill grade and past the speed restriction you don’t need to touch any controls, except the camera controls for looking around. It’s not all like that of course but it is that aspect of it that many people will find boring.

 

Well at the moment the only US freights route we have are mostly mountain passes. I'm sure that there are other part of the US that are more interesting to drive. In the Midwest for example.

 

Looks like there is going to be some things to watch for on the roadmap this tues the 9th for US content and consist editor for consoles ..i will be tuning in to see ..and everyone that into US content should tune in and participate in the roadmap Q&A

 

A small short line sounds like a perfect route to experiment with a more persistent sandbox approach to daily freight operations.
Having to sort the new arrived freight at the interchange deliver those, then bring back out going freight is the fun part.
This is what is so much fun about Railroader, Railroader also makes it real easy to figure out what goes where, unlike Run8.

Railroaders down side is the locos are really lacking in visual fidelity. I dont play from the cab in the game at all. Run 8 cabs and locos are fine but the world assets are not great. RUN 8 takes way to much work to figure out where what goes where though.
TSW could fill that gap of nice looking assets and a more user friendly experience compared to Run 8.

 

The rhtt has much more services. It's not just 2 per route. The 66 also wasn't a brand new train

 

it’s been said people haven’t picked up on which train that is, if they know now it could impact their immersion, it’s like not finding a bug what’s annoying but then finding it, you now are off put by it whereas all was fine before.

there’s a difference between stopping US routes cause people find them pretty dull at times due to something like speed limits or something else and not doing routes because they don’t sell or are small market within a smaller market, it’s probably something even US Freight fans would be divided over, perhaps something like a big majority in shunting over long distance runs or something along those lines

 

Then take Matt's advice and don't play those kinds of routes if they put you to sleep. As he says, they're not for everyone, though I seem to recall you had a different view of Cajon at one time. ( Correct me if I'm wrong ).

However there are some of us who enjoy the challenge of long, heavy freights and also would welcome more switching and pick- up freight. And there are many routes, like Sand Patch for instance, where falling asleep isn't an option if you want to stay in control.

 

Have to agree with you there. Lots of issues that never get a response from anyone at DTG.

 

I bought them too ( though quickly refunded Goblin ). And they are well-built routes which I might have enjoyed too if there had been more interesting trains to drive on them..

 

Completely off-topic to the thread, but on Easter sunday I also experienced a strong pain in my back after sitting on the desk and making an unfortunate move with the neck. After a short walk, pain went worse and had to lay me down the whole day thereafter.

Heating creme put on and 30 minutes after, the pain were "covered" under an intense burning.

Anyway, The advice is very well with the Physiotherapist and to consider more about how to sit correctly in the chair at desk.

Thanks for the elaborate answer although the topic isn't really of much interest for me, although I like US trains (But as you said it's okay to have that opinion as well). Nice to hear that there are US third parties devs in coming.

Get well soon, Matt.
(BTW I thought the reason why you abstained from the forum was the Fife Circle debate, but I guess many things are often not in the way as they seem)

 

I'd like to see some 2nd or 3rd Class railroads in the game. For example:
- New York, Susquehanna and Western Railway (NYSW)
- Portland and Western Railroad (PNWR)
- Reading Blue Mountain and Northern Railroad (RBNM)
- Florida East Coast Railway
- Buffalo and Pittsburgh Railroad (B&P)
- Alaska Railroad

 

Higher management's usual smoothing over lack of Quality Assurance before release?

We've seen it all before and it still happens again ....

 

In fact, I saw that their logo looks very similar to Freightliner's .
- Buckingham Branch Railroad (BBR)
- New York and Atlantic Railroad (NY&A)
- Iowa Interstate Railroad (IAISRR)
NY&A would be interesting, since it also crosses LIRR territories.
what do you think DTG Matt?

 

Matt, there is also the whole world of vintage- which might tie together, since the shortlines tend to use old (often very old) equipment. Access to a high-nose GP7 or 9, GP30 or SW2 could feed into doing another 1950s-70s route. And (I assume) fallen-flag branding licenses are already subsumed under the ones you already have (NS, UP, CSX, BNSF)

In fact, a 1970s route might be almost ideal in terms of rolling stock, because the Dash-2s were coming in but the OG SD40s were around in numbers together with veteran F7s, and you would see Amtrak running F40s with Amfleet coaches. I wouldn't let Clinchfield be a disincentive; the issue I suspect with CRR was not so much that it was vinrtage, but that it was another crawl-over-the-mountain route (or appeared so to the casual shopper; I know how much great branch activity there is there)

 

Yes, the GP7/9s are missing! Also some older generation F40s, F3/7s, SD40s, GP30s and GP38s. Oh, and the switchers!

 

What's the state of play with Canadian Pacific and Canadian National, Matt? Oh and VIA Rail? Several possibilities there, with either Kicking Horse Pass or the section from Kamloops in towards Vancouver where CN and CP run either side of the canyon. Though of course you're going to need a prototype with a fair few trains, so nice thought it might be (former) BC Rail from North Vancouver to Lillooet, or Lillooet up the Fraser Canyon is probably not going to cut it. Nor are oddities like the Winnipeg Water District Railway!

 

That's great that you all were able to get some licenses with someone short line Railroad hopefully they allow for recording trips

 

I thought I’d made it clear that I love these routes and that Cajon Pass is by far my most played route but that doesn’t stop lots of other people finding it incredibly boring. The wording of the post clearly shows I was talking about other people finding climbing hills slowly boring, not me.

The falling asleep is not connected to the game or what I’m driving. I can just as easily fall asleep driving a fast commuter train with frequent stops, or watching a youtube video, or typing a reply on the forum. What I meant was that if I do fall asleep then nothing will be different with the driving of the train than if I was awake. It indicates the level of input you actually physically do when in that situation, which is basically nothing.

It is very understandable that a person, not me, would find it boring if they didn’t have to do anything for long periods of time in any kind of game. We have to remember that a huge number of players also see TSW (or any other train simulator) as a game and not a replication of being a real world driver. It becomes a driving game and driving at speed is enjoyable but going slow (and more importantly not doing anything) is a major put off. For lots of people, not for me.

 

I definitely think other Metro North lines like the Hudson and New Haven line should be considered in the future. It is great to see that MBTA is also willing to work with TSW.

It would also be great to see additional NJT lines too

 

Reading and Northern have a fairly big line it's 400 miles in total they have a fleet of all EMD diesels apart from their Budd RDC's from SW8's GP39RM's,GP38-2s,SD40-2s,SD50s they have a former Norfolk Southern F9 and B unit and they have two active steam locomotives 4-6-2 light pacific 425 which is currently getting her 1472 day inspection and 4-8-4 Northern T1 2102 which will be used on the Iron Horse Rambles on the 25th of May

 

A short line I would like to suggest is SMS Rail Lines they operate in Bridgeport New Jersey they do have other locations they operate in New Jersey as well as Pennsylvania and New York they are well known for there fleet of Baldwin diesel locomotives they do have a few EMD locomotives they have a SW14,SW1200RS a GP38-3 and their most recent EMD diesel is a Reading Company FP7 they also have 4 GE B23-7s and a Alco 0-6-0 steam locomotive which they have restored to operation back in November

 

Alaska Railroad and Reading Northern are both excellent choices in shortlines since they’re both well known across the country and both railroads have great service variations.
Alaska runs revenue passenger trains and manifest freight, and unit trains on their mainline.
Reading and Northern runs tourist passenger trains and manifest freight and unit trains on their mainline.
And both shortlines have mountainous mainlines. Alaska railroad is significantly more rural while Reading will pass through the center of more towns.

Susquehanna is mostly on their own trackage but they do operate over a small portion of the Port Jervis line (NJT and Metro North) and they recently purchased some big power (SD70M-2)

I’d also like to add some suggestions for New York and Atlantic (most of their operate on LIRR trackage)

Some other well known US shortlines that might be worth looking into:
Delaware Lackawanna (Shortline with all Alco roster. They also allow a nearby train museum to run excursions on their mainline)
Wisconsin Southern (railfan favorite for their bright red locomotives)
Iowa Interstate (Shortline with some big GEVOs as power)
Wheeling and Lake Erie (known for operating locomotives with a Rio Grande inspired paint)

Since the P42 is a top requested locomotive, I’ll also leave a class I suggestion for RF&P sub (CSX, Amtrak, and VRE with a very busy timetable on all three operators)

Hope these suggestions can point you in the right direction.

 

I do understand why needing to make passenger stock too is a challenge. However, I as a player would be extremely happy to see a US route that has both passenger and freight trains on it. There simply isn't a US route in TSW that offers experiences anywhere near as varied as, say Southeastern Highspeed or Dresden-Riesa. A Class II that has local freight serving a bunch of terminals, some through freights, and passenger trains would instantly be my favourite US route.

I'm not very interested in "US Freight Routes", but I'd absolutely love to drive some freight trains on a US route, like I can do on almost all European routes.

 

I just don't see that as a reason for not telling us what it is.

But if people find US routes dull they probably aren't buying them. There's no distinction between "people find this dull" and "this doesn't sell".

I continue to advocate for the South Shore Line.

 

Another great area to replicate would be the Railway Museum of New England. The excursion runs between Thomaston, Connecticut and Torrington. There is a retired New Haven FL9 there along with a GP9, New Haven U-boat unit and a few other locos that I can recall and older Pullman passenger coaches. I think this would be great as the area is very scenic. The line is about 2 miles north of Waterbury, CT

 

I think this is a different point to the original what I replied to, the original point was about a potential route what had a clear difference in gameplay to what people who are interested in US freight are primarily seeking.

though equally important to note that these dlcs need to sell to more than just the enthusiasts for such routes, that fanbase will be considerably smaller than the general customer, most likely not enough to make it sustainable.

 

Not a Metra line ( though it does share trackage and some stations ) so separate license needed.

However at about 90 miles and I think about 20 stations is at the margin for TSW urban routes.

Would love to see it though.

 

This is true. I don't see it being long before some folks start howling about whatever that is as being yet another failure on DTG's part while ignoring the inconvenient fact that nobody even noticed until DTG pointed it out themselves. Much like just the fact that it exists is already being pounced on.

An invisible compensation is a successful one. Why sweat it?

 

Matt, Thanks so much for your replies here. The on going dialog about US content is greatly appreciated.

"FEC is a no". Bummer! Say it's not so.
There is so much awesome railroad activity here in South Florida.
CSX, FEC, Tri-Rail, Brightline, Amtrak. It's so frustrating that licensing is so elusive, but thank you and your team for working on it.
Hopefully, something will change over time.

Sorry to hear about your neck and back issues. I know from years of cervical disc issues myself that flare ups can be miserable.
Wishing you a speedy recovery!

 

A fair point but I would argue that deficits like steam and freight make it questionable whether you can call TSW a fully fledged genuine train simulator if all we get are electric commuter routes and trains.

You have to cover all aspects of rail transportation even if some particular elements are not profitable as long as the whole game makes money.

I've always been happy to buy UK and German electric commuter routes as long as US freight routes are in the mix.

But, for me, no freight or steam means no purchase of more Glossops or Goblins.

 

I assume that also.means that Brightline is out of the question too.