Other Older Routes That Deserve The Wsr Treatment

Would suggest you review derbysulzers.com website. There were some Skegness passenger turns as late as July 88. Images do support 1988 workings for the first half of the year. There simply were not enough 150 units for all Pennine workings.

 

Would you be able to link it? I am not saying they were all gone but certainly became a rarity in '87 on the Trans-Pennine runs as 47s took the reigns, alongside the 150s. Again, I know there were still Peak workings to Skeggie, and in other areas, in '88 as it's our 'local' sea side place and I planned a strategic day out that year, but a lot of things ended up there on their way out! A passenger turn here or there is completely different to them being booked on regular workings.

 

Say a route will be remastered and has new rolling stock and/or an extension. Could the remaster itself (ie not new rolling stock or extensions) be given as a free update?

 

DTG Matt said:

"The WSR Treatment", or what we're referring to now as "Remasters", which are intended to be free..."


Premise: I speak in a personal capacity (before ending up here on the scaffold).

Why free?

What's free in the Western world?

A reasonable price for a redevelopment job that still requires time and resources does not seem like blasphemy to me.

If a cost in terms of money could speed up the remastering of some routes (like RSN, HMA), it wouldn't be a problem for me.

Those who don't want to spend more keep the route as they originally purchased it.

 

I doubt many people would share that view! I think if a route got a new loco/multiple unit and a remaster that would be worth paying for but even then, not everyone would want the new loco. Let’s not forget, the WSR refurbishment was a spare time passion project. We also need to be careful to separate what counts as a remaster and what counts as bugs/issues that would previously have been caught by the Preservation Crew. Matt’s post summed things up quite nicely as to what we can and can’t expect in a similar project on another route.

 

Here where I live, if I buy a car in 2020 and then the manufacturer does a restyling (not a new model, mind you) of this model 3/4 years later, no car salesman calls me on the phone to go to the workshop and get the latest news for "free".

 

No, but I know I have had free 'software updates' done to the car I bought new a few years back since buying it, which is much more akin to what these remasters are.

I don't know why you are complaining about routes being improved for nowt!

 

That’s what was puzzling me. It’s specifically been said these are little time filler projects, not diverting artists and route builders from working on new content or coders on fixes. The WSR remaster was also a good PR exercise for DTG creating considerable goodwill all round.

A paid for rework is more likely to be what we got with SEHS V.2. An actual extension, or rebuild to include the extension and the previous 465 DLC bundled in with the route. And would require a team working on it for several weeks if not months.

 

How about London Commuter, is that in the list?.

 

I'm not complaining at all.
I only expressed an opinion.
Can you understand what I write or maybe you need a pair of glasses?
Don't put into my mouth what I didn't say.

 

What you said very much came across to me as more of a complaint and that is how I have understood it.

Oh and no, I have semi-regular free eye tests, and so I know I don't need glasses.

 

Ok, have a good Sunday.

 

Using these guidelines, the route with the most benefit would surely be London Commuter which isn't in the list above. It's a good route but in dire need of scenery polish, ToD4 and the 700 adding to the timetable. It doesn't require any new stock that we don't already have or any extensions.

I understand it's the ming vase of Chatham and no one wants to touch it in case it falls over but I really think it would be worth a second look, especially with the benefit of another 2-3 years development, optimisation and bug fixing experience.

 

The Brighton Main Line is the only route as part of the rush hour releases that has not yet received any substantial upgrade, so this would be top of my list also. Really it needs Thameslink services with a Class 700/1, but since we only got the Class 700/0 with SEHS I suspect that's now out of the question, unless we get another route for the /1 where it can layer back onto an upgraded BML.

Another one I would quite like to see would be Island Line 2022. It was the last route release before TSW3 and given it's quite a short route, remastering this with new lighting shouldn't be too much work?

 

Of the routes available in the survey, I voted primarily for "Rapid Transit". The route has a lot of potential, but due to errors it is not very playable. First of all, I would like to see Talent 2 updated to the DRA version.

 

Is this confirmed or still in rumor mode?

 

Is the old alignment still in use? Modernizing this route with the new tunnel while allowing for operations on the old ramp would be sweet.

 

But there one issue with this the gwe for example is really outdated and all of them new stock can easily be repainted like 387,801 and 710 sets and then be put on Line if you know said loco from that route

 

The existing route is set in 2016; it would have to be rebuilt to make it modern and that's not going to happen

 

At which point most of us would probably want something "new" route wise for the Western (not repeating the usual wishlist here).

 

A new iteration would likely be preferred by most but present day sounds awkward due to the GWR licensing. The current rendition missed several classes out that would have been prototypical at the time, not to mention the branch lines. Any new version would need to have the branches included in my opinion but would need to be pre 2004 unless a new licensing agreement can be obtained. If made today, this route would be much more complete I believe. I have listed the branch lines many times and as for 2015 stock, this includes...
Class 57 and coaching stock
Class 165/1
Class 180
Class 332
Class 360/2

 

That would be a rebuild, not a remaster

 

We could use northern 333 sets to get 332 sounds and 360/2 where with TfL for a bit on gwe

 

I mean, it's all but "officially" confirmed by DTG

 

Y’know, I bought WSR after its first big upgrade quite a while ago. This should be their intention when upgrading things, because there’s a lot of DLC which I would like to have but it’s too outdated/buggy currently for me to consider.

 

This is good to hear. In my opinion, some of the most oldest TSW routes are in vital need of remasters as priority. Why? Because there are already some fantastic route choices already present in-game - from East Coastway to Ruhr-sieg Nord and Munich-Ausburg as well as Peninsula Corridor to name just a few etc - that really just need a major timetable/rolling stock update and the addition of AI traffic for busier routes; these I'd say are even more of a priority than a TOD 4 update (although having this all would be welcome).

 

Well said both. London Commuter is the ultimate TSW route that is in most vital need of a remaster for all the reasons mentioned - even more so considering the success of SEHS. Moreover, the 700 is synonymous with the modern-day BML so its absence in London Commuter continues to feels very odd. Both the route and the 700 are among the most popular in TSW, so surely it's a win-win for DTG even if it's a lot of work for the devs at DTG.

 

If a GWML remaster were to be done, I suggest the brief transition era between the diesel hydraulics and the class 50/HST. Massive potential to use a lot of existing stock with the addition of class 117 DMU sets.

 

Bakerloo

Something people may not realise about this route, is that there is a (almost?) complete set of infrastructure on the WCML mainline from Harrow right up to Queen's Park (actually a little beyond Queen's Park too), including massive depots, a ton of sidings, and an absolute plethora of locos, coaches and wagons already placed (which you can jump in and drive!). You get a hint of this I think around or just before the Wembley stations when you drive the tube to the right of a depot, but that's just the tip of the iceberg

So while some work would be needed to electrify and possibly add additional signalling to the WCML section, stations, track, building, scenery and locos are all already in place. I suspect a limited timetable could be put in place too with appropriate stock, though I forget which stations have a platform on WCML aside from Harrow

 

Kind of pointless, I think, for what amounts to AI, and scenery visible for a few minutes. Bakerloo is 72 stock in tunnels.

 

Yes indeed. If Bakerloo was to get anything it should be a LIRR style paid update, with the route extended to take in Euston and Watford Jn and a suitable stock DLC for the DC Line service. Of course, the WCML proper would still be empty, but as it stands not having the DC Lines included leaves a bit of a gap.

 

Disgaree on pointless. The depots and yards that aren't visible from the overground tube lines have plenty of potential for freight and shunting to play, not just AI. Don't know what runs on Watford DC in terms of traction, but I'm sure a third rail EMU could sub in. The main point is alongside (if it were to be done) a lighting etc. upgrade, a timetable and adding suitable stock for freight/shunting/timetable fits with the criteria of a "remaster"

 

LO 710s would be my educated guess, though there could still be the LO flavour of Electrostars.

 

Were there grander plans for it originally then? I get the track laying, but it seems all the depots and yards are complete from my exploration from a modelling perspective (don't know about the stations), along with an absolute ton of rolling stock placed, as well as locos. For reference, this area here is where I mean:

 

Gotcha! I still think its a shame it can't be used mind, even if there were no services I think it would be fun to explore. Any chance of exposing the tracks on the map and removing the barriers with no other alterations for some shunting fun? I imagine if that were done, some enterprising scenario makers would take advantage (and no need to re-signal or electrify)

 

Off topic, but looking at the polls. The evidence is clear. The community does not care about freight only routes.

 

Pretty much, might as well throw all the nails into the coffin at this point. We'll probably wont see any new US freight routes for a good few years, unless DTG wants to bundle it with the next TSW 5/6 etc.....

 

Depends on the nature of the freight.

Slightly OT to the OP but I would love to rag 56’s and 60’s up and down between the Yorkshire coal mines and the power stations at Drax, Eggborough and Ferrybridge.

As regards the Bakerloo, I guess as things stand the parallel running with the WCML is a relatively short section of the whole and as I said above any remaster or LIRR style extension more likely to focus on the DC lines. Having a fully functional WCML as part of Bakerloo would also conflict with having the WCML proper in the game at a later stage.

My ultimate dream would be to see Bakerloo extended as said, the North London Line added in and merged with Goblin. London mega route!

 

Hey DTG Matt ! Thanks for your comments here.

I personally think that HRR needs that remaster.

Why it deserves it:

• It was already rush hour before we even had Rush Hour as DLC.
• It combines 3 of NRW's biggest citys.
• It's one of the most busy railway corridors in germany.
• It's the first route with a long distance train with a stop in the middle (if you drive the BR 101 from Bochum to Duisburg, you stop 2 times between. SKA and HMA have zero stops for long distance trains).
• It introduced to us the very popular BR 101 DLC.
• It features all type of services.

What should be part of the remaster:

• TOD4 upgrade
• A new timetable by the legendary Joethefish
  • Including all services:
  • ICE: these are missing in the orginal timetable. We have a lot more stock now that could come with it. It would layer the BR 403 (KWG), BR 401 (KWG). These services stop at Bochum, Essen, Mülheim (not all of them), and Duisburg.
  • IC: BR 101 DLC, BR 101 and cab car expert DLC. Same stopping pattern as the ICEs.
  • IC: Also featuring the cab car in front on the train as drivable service.
    
  • FLX: Flixtrain services with the BR 182 (MRCE) or BR 193 and the left-rhine IC coaches.
  • EC: BR 101 or ÖBB 1116 with left rhine IC Coaches.
  • UEX: Urlaubsexpress BR 185/BR 101/ÖBB 1116 with left rhine IC Coaches or ÖBB Coaches. Just one service per day in the summer months i think.
    
  • RE: BR 146+Dostos [as we sadly don't have the Desiro DC] on the RE 1 stopping at all the ICE-stops + Wattenscheid. Also sometimes there are additional RE 1 services where you can see the BR 110 and n-Wagen (BRO)
  • RE 14 that stops and Essen and Essen West and then goes off map. BR 642 from MAIN could be used.
    
  • RB: BR 425 as RB 33 services starting in Essen
  • S-Bahn: BR 422 on the S1 (double traction), S9, S3 etc. IRL now there are FLIRT 3XL trains in service, but 422 in fine.
  • Freight: Not a lot of freight in reality on that route, but at least a bit in the night
  • Freight: A lot of freight AI "behind" Duisburg.
    
  • A lot more AI only serives, especially in Essen that drive off map (e.g. S9, S6).
  • Railtour: BR 110/BR 103 with left rhine IC Coaches.
    
  • Parked BR 422 trains at the deopot in Essen Waldhausen.
  • Parked BR 642 trains in Essen Waldhausen.
  • Parked BR 422s in front of Essen West/Fronhausen
• Some important missing scenery:
  • Redoing the Skyline of Essen:
  • To the north, the town hall is missing. Also the big square infront of the main station is missing.
  • To the south, the iconic RWE-tower and the Evonic buildungs are needed!
  • A lot of more vegetation is needed.
  • The ballast textures need an update.
  • Duisburg Hbf needs to look way more like a lost place and not that clean and beautiful as it looks in TSW.
  • More station cluttering in general.
• Overhauling the vanilla trains (BR 422, BR 101, BR 425) with TOD4 upgrades.

I think after all those years, HRR is a great route, but suffers from bad scenery and a timetable that is just way beyond its potential, especially because of the missing long distance services. What do you think?

 

West Cornwall Local, not mentioned in the list for voting, which is the most unlike route compared with the real life route than any of the routes in the game. The only way to get it feeling realistic is to drive it at night!

WSR was excellent for representing the real route before it was updated and still is a fantastic route.

Would also love to see the Thames Branches added to GWE as posters have previously mentioned and would be happy to pay for it. Perhaps DTG could do it in a remodelled GWE as the Elizabeth Line, which would be worth the money.

 

Why the Left Rhine IC coaches? Those represent what was in use thirty years ago (in game reality they're facelifts of the modern IC coaches introduced with the 101). Certainly the Produktfarben livery is way, way out of date.

 

I am also more than happy to buy it again if it were fully rebuilt with the branches. The existing version is very underwhelming by recent standards.

 

Just to make it look more varied
Also on the FLX it's not too wrong. Before their moderinisation, FLX had more or less these coaches (in their own livery).

 

Well said and very much agree. However, the main issue with HRR overall is the route would still be way too short for what it should actually be - if there were a remaster then I'd like to see it extended to either Dusseldorf or Dortmund, or ideally, both as will actually mean the 101 services are of decent length etc.

 

Well Matt, definitely an update to the foliage... The same treatment that was given to Sand Patch, but updated to today's graphics standards.

 

Personally. To make it perfect:
1. the extension to Siegen as it is in TSC. (merge to Wuppertal is difficult so lets skip that, hagen is fine to end the journey at)
2. A realistic timetable and some more services (I think more than just the through RE drove but not sure anymore). I think the current day is not as interesting and the dosto's plus older freight as it currently has is great. maybe some more shunting would be lovely.
3. if it happened the use of freight to the power station. if not well we have free roam for the unrealistic stuff.
4. if no extension. a little busier hagen freight yard and some AI to Hagen Vorhalle/Witten Hbf. I think that line is now not connected and those 6 tracks look so lonely always driving there with no AI.
5. Small extension to complete the special loco + cab car RB to iserlohn.

I honestly can't think of more but for inspiration there have been multiple threads like https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...nd-why-tsw-needs-more-routes-like-this.80269/ I'd say look there for inspiration.

If all those points are implemented I would say I'm willing to pay another 35 euro's since Finnentrop - Siegen near doubles the length, the route goes from personal first place (closely followed by Salzburg - Rosenheim) RSN will be so high up my list even Salzburg - Rosenheim with branches and a loco dlc or two won't beat it. the route is near perfect as it is and I love the timetable you built for it Matt, the freight operation on there beats any current route I have played and I can't wait to do more of it. All I personally would need is a TOD4 update and the branch to Iserlohn and I'll be content enough.