TSW Nathan Not so sure about the time zone differences and if I correctly cited but here is the place for the livestream. Dependent upon your set time zone you should see when it starts:
So I've watched the livestream and have been seeking for the section about Fife circle. It was at 36:46 in the video, I posted above. I've also read the roadmap article. But Alex just echoed what already has been stated 2 weeks ago. Disappointing, I expected much more to say after Jasper said they would have a new update in the roadmap. "There'll be many other improvements included, but that's the definite stuff that we can share right now. We'll share news as soon as we know more, both about included fixes and a time-frame for the update to release. To manage expectations though, this won't be something that releases in a couple of weeks. We'll provide an update for you in April's Roadmap on the 9th."
Just for info purposes ScotRail have realised details of what the service patterns will be once the Leven branch opens - https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-sc...release/public-consultation-shapes-exciting-1
Even more amazing when you think that the modders probably have full-time jobs and other commitments. For Rivet, it's their day job.
So nothing stops them from starting it right now. The services are provided and as some users said tracks are also roughly laid. Why they said then they would start to building it only up from June (which is roughly 2 months)? For me this all seems just like going to be a promise, which simply will not fulfill. They probably even working on the next DLC at the moment. Regarding the scenery upgrades, I have no hope that something like this comes. The last roadmap mentioned nothing new, only what we knew before, that they want to add some services, but nothing more. Well, that's it I guess. Personally, I don't understand why as it seems so many people are okay with it now. All threads about Fife Circle have become silent and people seem to have forgotten their complaints about it. What happened? And for the buyers: Look what happened with paying them nonetheless. Money is in their money, and they will change nothing, nothing at all. I can't understand how they can get away with such a broken release. It's a shame for TSW and any other third party creator. But many of you decided it's okay, so nothing is going to change. You can hope for the promised addition of the services, but even those are IMHO not even safe to come.
Presumably the buyers are happy with it and enjoying the content, which is their right. They might be working on the extension at this moment for all we know.
l blooming hope not!!! I never want a feeble unfinished Rivet route in the game again. They should turn their workload to producing more locomotives, which they are much better at, than accurately producing quality routes.
I do feel for some of Rivets staff, particularly their 3D modellers who make really nice trains... However, as mentioned millions of times, how Rivet allowed the last 2 Scottish add ons to be published in the state they were is beggars belief. The 385 and the 170, as I say are superb models but are heavily let down by the sounds and poor scenery. The way the community reacted the initial preview of Fife circle was down played as "oh it was a early build shown by accident", to then given players the impression fixes would be updated immediately or shortly after the release. We are now weeks in and have only been told a few minor details. I really thought this was going to be Rivets turn to show everyone "look we can do good things if we put our mind to it", but unfortunately for me personally it's really damaged their reputation even more. The Edinburgh to Glasgow was barely fixed and over a year later the route feels practically abandoned with all its other faults and the updated sounds we were promised for the 385 have not come to fruition. The only mention I've heard of it was through Matt on one of the road maps, who said that DT themselves haven't had the chance to get a recording. I appreciate Matt making the effort but it really shouldn't be left down to DT to sort those sort of issues out. Also any valid criticism of Rivet seems to be shot down by their staff who get extremely defensive of ban you from the forums for pointing out such things or you get "we are a small team, these things cost time and money"... well it costs the player time and money to find a faulty end product. I feel for the staff lower down the chain as they seem to be the ones unfairly getting it in the ear... I speak for myself only here, but for me Fife Circle really was the nail in the coffin for me, I thought this was a chance to redeem their reputation, but in actual facts it's done the absolute opposite... Anyway, that's my long winded rant over.
l agree SierraOsgar95 they keep damaging their reputation with every release. I was absolutely disgusted and disappointed with the way Rivet presented West Cornwall. Arosa was bad especially with those hideous mountains but WCL was way off, as I have previously mentioned millions of times before. They just massacred their representation of a wonderful and very beautiful route and have just left it in a disgraceful condition. Every route they have given us since, also is shrouded with loads of scenery difficencies. Yet they are happy to keep taking our money for their substandard work which is definitely not up to the same quality of Just Trains Blackpool Branches and other the Train Sim World 4 routes. We all paid £29.99 for Blackpool and others as well as Fife Circle. Fife Circle is not even half as good as Blackpool, yet we paid the same price. Surely that is not acceptable. Rivet, just ban you from their forums, they never respond to criticism. In business you would lose your customers producing products the way Rivet produce.
Good luck litigating that one while simultaneously defending a defamation case from Rivet. I assume you got your money back when you asked for a refund.
l am not asking for a refund, but l strongly feel that you do not get value for your money from Rivet routes. What l want from Rivet is to repair the faults in all their routes, insuring they give their customers much better quality products and what we all expect when paying for a TSW4 route!!! If they do that, I would be very happy and certainly they would receive my praise.
If you are not happy with a company's products, you can either discuss it to death or just choose to not buy from them, which is the most rational consequence. It's been repeated again and again and is the only thing that's a fact - you are not forced to buy their products.
I mean it's true if you don't like it don't buy it, you're right... But you won't know until you do buy it, and I think the criticism towards their products is valid criticism as it is shoddy work. Metaphorically, its like having a workman (plumber, carpenter, etc... ) and not being happy with it, you point out the faults in the hope that A) they will repair it. Or B) going forward there is better quality control. So yes you are right I could choose not to buy it going on my previous experiences of their work, but I gave them the benefit of the doubt thay maybe they have progressed since them. But clearly they haven't, and going forward if people are paying £30, which is a fair lump of money, you expect good customer relations and good quality work. If you put your work on sale for the public, they have every right to complain. I respect your opinion, I just differ on a few things ☺️
Spot on!! If Rivet refunded everyone they would quickly go out of business, so l am not asking for a refund from Rivet, l just want them to start producing some quality routes and correct the standard of their past catalogue of shoddy unacceptable routes. Isn’t that what we all would like to see from Rivet!!!
Of course you have the right to complain. I'm talking about how much it affects yourself, buying something that makes you more angry than happy, although previews and reviews are available (and Steam refunds). Any outsider seeing us must shake his head and just say "if it's not good, why buy it?". If my best pal complains about his girlfriend permanently, I tell him to dump her. You can't change other people. Trying to do so will only drain your energy. Wasted time. People are buying DLC too much in the hope of what it eventually will be, not what it actually is. Blame yourself for being disappointed, as no one else is responsible for your feelings but you. In fact, the overwhelming majority in the TSW forums are issue reports and "whishlists". Certainly, there's been terrible releases for TSC too, but the difference is it is very easy there to modify things, like dragging a floating object down while playing, immediately saved without external editors, cooking and paking, and hitting barriers like not being able to edit what's there, only adding scenery layers. The TS community is much more content with their game - as it is an open platform. If I'm not happy there with a building, I can replace it in a matter of minutes, choosing from an almost infinite source of assets. I can switch TOD files or use SilverLining environment, I can adjust shader parameters on the fly with a neat Contrast/Ambient Light/Sunlight intensity slider and three steps of post-process SSAO which can make bland texturing more realistic by adding corner shadows. Can adjust my FOV or HUD transparency. Can clone a route with one click and edit it as I like to. Customizability is the key for success. And your own ability to control your purchasing behaviour, ask yourself if it happens out of an impulse (I want that!!!! - not good - it's the impulse PR is trying to trigger) or if it is rationally reasonable based on your personal preferences and standards. (This is what's called on second thought. A tough thing for many, including myself, because it needs to overcome a feeling of excitement and anticipation, and the looming reward mechanism through your brain chemistry, which gets a dismissal suddenly - not acknowledging that waiving is a long-time reward system, not short time as the initial impulse to get something new.)
Again, I totally respect what you are saying but will politely disagree ☺️ I get the sentiment of what you are saying, but I don't think it's a case of just avoiding it if it makes you unhappy, its £30 down the drain, which is costly in the current climate of things. If it wasn't a business and was a freeware thing we were talking about I'd be totally on board with you and say 'don't let it wind you up the way it does, just avoid it' . But when a company is selling something, even gaming/simulation, I think they should be held accountable much like any other trader/retail business if they done a shoddy job or had a shoddy product. If a customer finds a fault, it needs addressing and complaining about for them to sort out and make sure others don't have the same experience. Like the saying goes I suppose, 'fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me'. I should have known better from previous experience and stuck with that. I can say for sure now though I'll avoid future releases of Rivets! Anyway that's my last two pence piece on the subject! ☺️
You have no way of holding them accountable, because the EULA you are agreeing on when making a purchase says the software is sold as is. They have not done anything wrong legally. What gets posted on the forums can be ignored (and must be sometimes, for the sake of the devs' health too). What gets purchased is what matters, nothing else. This is how the business works. There's a 3rd party "developing" TSC addons, Global Bridge Entertainment, releasing the utmost LOVE I have ever seen. Still, they are there. Even their boss stepped on the forums and started insulting constructive criticism. Still, they are there (though mentioning them is forbidden on most forums - the community has banned them). If you think Rivet's bad, you ain't seen nothing. Just don't buy if you think it's not good. That's all you can really do. Or join that company and try to make a change there (see Adam Lucas joining Skyhook).
Not getting "Value for money" is not "Fraud". You completely missed my point that you are putting yourself in real legal danger throwing words like "fraud" around. I'm surprised it's not been deleted by the mods to be honest. If you think £30 is a lot of money, try finding £30,000 to be able to defend yourself in court.
Value for money is purely subjective - that's your free decision to pay the price. You can buy a Dacia or a Mercedes. What the developers demand is the cost of development plus added value plus profit. What you pay is what it values for you in terms of gameplay. If those two values are matching - perfect. If not, decide for yourself. Base decisions on what a product is, not what you want it to be. The latter is valid for Early Access - I've spent 20 Euros on a game in development that is promising - SimRail. Even if development should stop now, what I already got for 20 bucks is a massive amount of gameplay for that price, which is less than a single route DLC in TSW. Odds are good, so I invested
In all honesty the writing was on the wall with Fife, with what was shown on stream, all you can do is laugh at people who still buy it & then complain. Thats before you even look at Rivets past work - what are you really expecting when you buy their stuff? I certainly hope it isn’t DLC that is upto scratch.
What was streamed has turned out to be an early build on Matt's PC. Jasper was shocked but couldn't publicly blame DTG or explain things. I'm glad they've committed to adding services and the Leven branch, raising the value for me. Plus the fabulous work of londonmidland and Bescot, a good reason this game is only worth its money (from a customer's viewpoint) on PC. (And people asking for TSC on consoles - forget that, for your own sake ) I was highly idealistic when I was young. I've paid my dues, and I'm feeling much more balanced now I'm becoming a slightly pessimistic realist.
Yes & in the wrong build, there was an untextured building, missing announcements & track joint sounds being absent. Everything else was intended & still to this day is in the same state. Rivet have committed to many a fix before & simply…not done it. Those 385 sounds will be along any day now. Young or old (a subject that keeps coming up alot lately for no apparent reason) has nothing to do with the fact that Rivet continually drop the ball & do little in the way of picking it back up.
Correct, but it's all coming down to the same. What's your power? Spending hours on forums, being disgusted and angry, or choosing to get rid of half-assed things in your life, being happy and relaxed when gaming. You have made an observation - Rivet's products do not satisfy you. What can you do? One answer - don't buy from them. The rest is not in your hands - and not acting according to your observations, being untrue to yourself which results in anger (which is often a projection of your own inner troubles onto others) Only if they feel, based on the financial revenue, they need to do more, they will. Not because of people complaining.
The faults with DTs stuff is minor in comparison to Rivets. Dovetail are also alot quicker at fixing faults properly, acknowledging issues, and you are kept informed of the progress on updates. Rivet on the other hand, you'll get drips of information, and not much else. And then a poor fix that doesn't solve half the issues and then it's completely ignored and onto the next project... So for me personally DT are pretty good, and they communicate very well with their players/customers. Not a lot to ask for...
I could give you a lot of examples that show otherwise. DTG are not better in terms of addressing issues. Being the publisher, they are under a higher pressure certainly. How long have Paddington and Reading station been visually broken? How long does SKA use a powerless Talent2 formation for all services in one direction? How long does the GP38-2 display an EOT pressure of 105 psi? How long are Journeys incompletable, Masteries not working, PIS and wrong destination displays (Rivet's have been working), broken lights that illuminate other parts of the model on the Class 40 Headcodes etc.? It's just all... TSW
DTG do not fix the issues present in DLC. They acknowledge them and tell us they are investigating and working on a fix then go dead silent on it for years
Yes - if causing crashes they'll quickly react. This short thread speaks volumes. Blatant lies. Notice the silence at the end. And the post dates. My work wasn't even acknowledged by the CM who had promised to "get back to you". You can't get around it, they are exposing themselves (not even reacting or thanking). So don't take the forums too seriously. They don't. In Germany we have a saying "Ist der Ruf erst ruiniert, lebt sich's gänzlich ungeniert." (once your reputation is bad, life's carefree and easy because no one is expecting anything from you) https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/metro-north-textures-not-loading.15301/
It depends. Sometimes they are quick to fix and improve things. Sometimes they are slow or don't do anything for months and years.
Yes and waddayaknow, sometimes their patches break things that were once working. To be never fixed. Your admirable collection of common places throughout the board deserves its own thread.
Most of these smaller studios dont have a big budget for scenery, so they sacrifice it on the train model
Thats just a very poor excuse. So after the updates of fife circle, are the services finally complete? Or is there still a bunch missing. ×(didnt buy the route)
Look forward to feedback from those who have this following the updates, as to if it’s now in a better state.
So I thought, "Great the updates out now and a little bit more on top"... I was surprised to see Haymarket depot with ECS in the sidings which was a nice touch. The scenary looks a bit better... I mean it's alright, (some of the station scenary like grass verges are still noticably poor). It is not anywhere near as thorough as I'd expected it to be with the amount of time it's taken Rivet to do (which the TSW community had made updates for Fife Circle in around a week, which seems FAR MORE thorough), so I do not really know why it has taken this long for quite a 'beige' update... Also I could not see any 'full circle' services with the Class 170 (like there were pre covid which would of been really nice). There are railtours that do the full circle... So for me personally it still needs a bit of work. I saw Edinburgh to Glasgow was on the update list and got my hopes up, and thought "oh maybe they have listened and have put some work into fixing some of the many issues... " but the horrid screeching nails down a black board braking sounds on the 385 are still there to send a shiver down your spine... Am I ungrateful? Maybe... Yeah. But, for nearly 6 weeks of work and waiting for the patches and updates, it does feel quite deflated. Anyway others may disagree.
Just downloading it now. I hope this is decent. We still have the Leven Update later so I hope they continue to fix more of it with Leven too.
You have downloaded the update? Sorry, but I’m skeptical when I see comments like this. Post the current build your running, your platform and the list of services too in a couple of screenshots for proof. I highly doubt you’d be singled out with inaccurate updates, when 99.9% of the player base has the correct update. A good first step. Now I hope Rivet have active planes taking off in their next update.
Is the depot now popullated with a few static 170? That seems to be the easiest thing to immerse the tt.
