Why Is Dtg Throwing Left Rhine At Costumers?

So first things first and to explain something, in Germany we have the idiom "to throw something at somebody" if a merchant provides its products for an unreasonable price - I don't know if there is an english equivalent - I couldn't find one, but that literally is how it describes the situation at its best I think.

Here is my issue:

I simply can't understand the quantity and amount of discount on LFR (Linke Rheinstrecke / Left Rhine) during the last weeks, now being it even as one of the 14 DLCs we can get for 13,85€ as a Humble Bundle.

A brief history:
- 90% off (available for 3,59€) during the Festival of Rail event in February.
- 70% off currently on Steam.
- being one of the 14 DLCs we can get for 13,85€ as a Humble Bundle.

This route is just one year old (has been released at 16th March 2023), offers 92 kilometers of route length (its one of the longest german routes in TSW) containing of many detailed and custom created assets like castles and era related stuff. It even includes two locomotives, the BR 103 and the BR 110.3 (in two liveries) plus offers layers of the BR 628 from Niddertalbahn and the ICE 1 from KWG. And with this I think it's one of the best german (maybe even all) DLCs DTG do offer.

But why on earth is DTG almost giving this precious DLC away in the last months, being a DLC of just being 1 year old? The amount of discount on this DLC is absolutely not fair in comparison to other older routes which are developed way worse but still keep a top level price tag (including on sales).

 

Throwing still quite new stuff at customers is DTG's practice to get some sales as perhaps/apparently it didn't sell as well as intended at full price?

 

Probably didn't sell that great.

The only other thing i could think would be they have an upcoming route that uses the 103.

Instead of bundling it with this new route (which might ruffle some feathers since it's a pretty recent release), they offer LFR super cheap so the new route becomes more appealing for layering purposes.

Probably overthinking it though lol

 

Possible, but facing the fact that we have no german route in sight on the roadmaps, I would say its not so likely (although I wish this would be the case - maybe an old era route? - This would be amazing).

But indeed I had a similar thought, but not regarding a new route as rather a new loco.

I think the BR 218 could be used on the route (at least with a different livery). But would it even be possible that the new expert BR101 and/or the IC cab car could be used on LFR?

Until now DTG didn't say anything about where it layer into.

And facing the statement in the April roadmap article that this DLC will have a "higher price point", it would make sense when they would reduce a DLC where it layers to.

However in this case I don't know whether the era would fit here to include 101 and/or IC cab car.

Probably more wishthinking, but would be nice if we could use it there.

 

We have had many posts complaining DLC is too expensive lately.......

I do think LFR is a lovely route but it surely needs an electric freight loco to replace the 110 which from what has been said was not regularly used on freight.

I am surprised DTG hasn't produced one, or maybe the route hasn't sold well so they haven't bothered.

 

So, BR doesn't sell, Steam doesn't sell, Shunting doesn't sell, LFR doesn't sell ......

 

Most freight trains move through the Rhine Valley on the right bank, there are lots of YT videos with the action.
many current franchises run their leased freight locomotives on trains, so today it is quite a colourful spectacle
in the era modeled by DTG, it would have been BR140 mostly and the occasional BR150/151 on the heaviest trains.
Mainz-Koblenz(-Koeln) along the right bank? Desirable but unlikely to happen

 

Must admit I haven't played LFR nearly as much as I should have done. The 103 is a lovely loco but they should tone down the traction fan sound so you can hear the actual motors running up and down (like the EU07 in SimRail). The 110 and 111 suffer from the same feature. It would also have been better (IMHO) set more historically so we could get classic D, FD and E zug formations running up and down. Though based on Semmering we would probably have got one UI Ccoach, a BM232!

 

By moving back in time some (1997) rather than a lot (1974), DTG could make use of a lot of existing rolling stock. Just for one example, the ICs could use the same X-wagen, facelifted, rather than have to build Rheingold-wagen from scratch, and very limited future use. Also the complate lack of 140s, 141s, no 628s back then, and so on and so forth.
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I don't think it's a big mystery: products that aren't selling well get big discounts. A pity from my point of view, because I love vintage German, but I'm just one customer.

 

Simple economics. If you have a product resting on the shelves in your store, you can lower the price and make more money than keeping a fixed price that nobody will pay. Got SoS when it was down to six euros for a short time.

That's why I don't take all the price discussions too seriously. You can choose what you pay, there'll always be sales and bundles. Just a matter of how to control your impatience and seeing through your brain's short-lived reward mechanism after making a purchase.

Voting with your wallet is all the power you have in a free market economy and it works.

 

I remember picking up Sherman Hill for about £3!

The one route they never seem to discount much, which ought to be on permanent price reduction is Rapid Transit.

 

Whoever said this clearly doesn't know what people want.

BR and Steam, being before my time, certainly have an appeal to me. Shunting also, it's a nice way to relax I find.

3 areas where sales are lost because things aren't done right.

 

Route without discount: way too expensive, DTG is robbing us!!!!11!1

Route with Discount: why cheap???? sus

 

So, I found out that the BR 101 and IC cab car are used there in real life. So layering the next expert loco DLC into LFR would be possible. The only question is: Does the era fit and where they used there in the 90s already in which LFR is set to be?

Some sources say that the BR 101 seems to be built between 1995–1999, the IC cab car around 1996-97. So, it could work with the late 90s.

Could this be the reason for the amount of discount on it?

Both pictures are taken at the same spot in Boppard, in 2015 the pic with the BR 101 and in 2019 the one with the IC cab car.

 

Those were quotes. And quoted with tongue in cheek. (I'm sure you know that).

I love all of them. BR - Never thought I would. Steam - good I got it on a cheap sale. Shunting/Switching - great fun, at least on RSN or RRO. And LFR - lovely route after some fixes.

As for the comercial visionaries from DTG, I've got only a :shrugs: left.

 

My issue is not that it's on discount, but the amount and quantity of the discount on it in comparison to other DLC's discount and quality is very questionable and seems illogical. That's the reason I'm asking for why this is the case here as I'm wondering about it.

Exactly this. I had Rapid Transit in mind. And how can it be that a route like Rapid Transit dating back to be the oldest german route released and has a limited amount of assets in it in comparison to LFR (people even argueing about a remaster for long time) does not nearly get the same percentages on discount than a route came out last year. I'm not even argueing about further differences in quality or gameplay.

TSW4 doesn't sell....

 

It could be that the route didn't sell very well. I remember Need For Speed Unbound going on sale at a huge discount a few weeks after it launched and it was later received that sales for that game weren't great at the time

 

Just fired it up for a quick run. The route is nice and the 103 is a superb model but yes, as I recall, that insidious constant white noise of the traction fan is awful. One of the few locos I'm running with the cab windows shut and even that doesn't block it out. I'm not normally one to complain about things being too loud, usually the opposite, but this is definitely something where the audio levels need to be looked at - so we can hear the motors!

 

Though it was an honour to be dispatched for 103 services for any DB driver, it wasn't comfortable in real life. Drivers described the "Queen" as crammed, hot (no air condition) and - loud.

 

Yes, the 101's first assignments when they entered service were DB's premium IC runs up and down the Rhine valley; if I'm not mistaken two of them at the time still carried the names Rheingold and Rheinpfeil.

(By the late 90s the aging 103s had mostly been assigned to IR service; the bulk of ICs were pulled by 120s)

 

I have to confess, I'm a notorious deal-payer. Sometimes I even purchase games or DLCs on sale, which I even't played yet in months, including some TSW DLCs (including the DLC in question). I'm an addict!

Anything I'm purchasing (even TSW itself) has the requirement to be on sale. Otherwise I won't purchase. Another goal for behaving a bit with patience is that you can have clear view on the product as sufficient reviews and showcase videos are being found online.

But in my childhood there where moments where I simply couldn't resist from getting a game for full price, for example a GTA:SA for 60€ - Ouch. My poor parents. But never do that again as an adult, unless a developer provide my something I can't breath without (which didn't happen so far).

Yes, I agree to that business practice. However, facing the fact that Left Rhine is a relatively new product, delivering quite much, I feel it's very weird why they reduce it so that it almost would count as a give away.

AFAIK not even Rapid Transit were 90% off anytime 6 years after release, but Left Rhine after less than a year (dating back to February) was? That gives me the feeling that there's something wrong here.

But a possible playground for a loco DLC with already said to have a higher price tag attached, could justify that....

 

No, that doesn’t work. The very first 101s were in service at the time of LFR but no coaches in the new ICE-inspired colour scheme (that happened in 2001, as far as I’m aware).

 

RobertSchulz

I remember back in the days when I was rushing to the stores when "Monkey Island 2" was released for my Amiga. 120 DM that cost me.... but it was fully worth it to me

Including inflation, that now corresponds to € 117!

Hardly any kid could afford these games back then, and naturally we were swapping disks in school . XCopyProfessional, Cyclone and BurstNibbler were your most valuable tools. Pal of mine got raided by police in 1992... taking away all his floppy disks.

 

I would say it appears in more sales cause apparently it didn’t sell well but they have stated peak forrest didn’t and I wouldn’t say that is frequently in sales

the sales seem a bit like you can’t read easy answers like that from them, Linke was also in a bundle so could be something to do with that aswell, or other factors.

 

For me it doesn't matter why it's on sale. Just that it is on sale.

No company would disclose their financial decisions on a public forum. It's none of our business

What's public is that Focus/PulluP shares have hit rock bottom last year and stayed there for months now. Cashflow is needed. Better less money for a product (that doesn't require manufacturing as it is digitally distributed copies of software) which is better than no money at all.

 

It's not the first time it's happened. Other dlc were also cheap shortly after release while others weren't so cheap

 

I will have to give the Zusi 3 version a run, see how it compares.

 

Just watch this, game sounds are not always a reliable source (and Zusi's stock is basically freeware). The sounds in that vid are not post processed and give a fairly good impression of the loud fans. It's hard to hear the driver talking actually.

 

I don’t think so. Having been on a 140 in action, I feel TSW replicates the droning quite well. It is pretty much all you hear in the cab.

 

Fair enough!

Though I just had a run with the TSC version and while the fan is loud the levels are such you can discern the traction motors rising and falling too.

 

I got it from the humblebundle, but I personally wasn't interested in it since it wasn't set in a modern setting. Would have been a day 1 purchase for me if it included a 460 or a 429 with some nice relaxing MU action, but I had no interest in driving the 103.

 

What LFR could use is some IC coaches in the 1996-2001 Verkehrsrot window band, mixed in with the older Orientrot.

I would do them myself, but until DTG sorts out car substitution it's a waste of time.

 

Nonetheless and independent upon the recent discounts are in relation to whether the expert 101 DLC layers/subs into the DLC or not, I think it would provide some good value to the Left Rhine (but also the expert BR101 DLC) if it would.

 

I actually think it might be opposite than what others make out of it. LFR is a long, rather pretty route with (for train sims) unique rolling stock. So DTG may discount it significantly to nudge newer players to get it to explore TSW DLCs more easily, because then they in return will be more willing to try out what else is there.

I would compare it to a different genre - how Blizzard keeps promoting Battle for Azeroth as primary expansion for new players coming to World of Warcraft, even while it is six years old and there were two newer ones in the meantime. But they weren't so well capturing the soul of the game and one was straight horrible, so developers are kinda hiding it from your choices.

 

Good point.

 

Maybe its als in anticipation of Simtrack's German loco as it'll maybe be something that will fit onto LFR? Thinking of a 151 oder 140/141 personally

 

It is a nice route but it has one big problem. There is absolutely no scenery on the other side of the river.

 

Linke Rheinstrecke being on sale doesn't necessarily mean it isn't selling well - LGV Med (a known bestseller) is also on sale at -70% currently.

 

Lukas justified that anywhen in the preview stream that the render distance wouldn't be high enough to depict the scenery on the east river side well enough. If I remember correctly, performance were also a problem, so that they decided to leave it out.

And maybe it had other reasons, too. Who knows... Maybe we will get a Rechte Rheinstrecke (Right Rhine Railway - the triple R) DLC in the future. I mean LIDAR-wise, the landscape/terrain is already there and in place (which was a good requirement for many "extended" DLCs we saw in the past). They just need to put tracks on the right river bed and create the scenery there.

Yes, LGV Med is also on the current Humble Bundle as well, and funny enough it is also roughly of the same length like LFR (with 93.5 km) but LGV Med is a DLC originally released on 17th December 2020 for TSW2. And that it is on discount after such a period is rather logical, independent upon whether the interest in it is still there or not.

But as I said in the OP, in contrary to LGV Med, Linke Rheinstrecke is just about being one year old (at the moment of the -90% off sale even less than 12 months). Now I could go ahead and compare the quality between LGV Med and Linke Rheinstrecke, but in the end nothing is changing on my opinion that discounting LFR in that amount so short after its initial release does not make sense, not for the work put into the product nor in comparison to the price tag and discounts on other DLCs, which are in fact way older, but not so strongly discounted like it.

 

If they are planning on releasing a loco DLC/layer for this route, wouldn't it be better to actually announce such plans, instead of leaving people guessing though?

Also curious, with the 218 coming in a few months, how much work would it be to backdate that for this route, for freight services?

 

Not terribly much. It would need a different livery and some elements in the cab would need to be changed (even though the 103, 110 and the cab car all have anachronistic cabs for LFR as well).

You wouldn’t really see any 218s on freight there. However, all of the passenger traffic between Mainz and Gau-Algesheim (in the direction of Saarbrücken) should have a 218, not a 110. The track after Gau-Algesheim isn’t electrified and 218s were a mainstay.

 

In case of the announcement of the upcoming expert BR 101 and IC cab car, I wonder why they didn't said anything about where it will layer into. It's an important information. People stated that the April 1 teaser (maybe even the photos from the roadmap article) are from Salzburg-Rosenheim and people guessing that it will be layered into there, but no official confirmation until yet.

I guess they are currently working and test to get it into some route's timetables and therefore couldn't say where it will be layered into yet.

DTG announced that they - up to date - only planned to layer the BR 218 to Hamburg-Lübeck and Maintalbahn.

But it could be used here as well I think.

I found this pic from a BR 218 at Koblenz in 1992, so the era would fit to use it. Now coming to the livery. Is this traffic red, orient red or any other livery? The missing bold white stripe at the front (plus the number of the class below the DB logo) and the light white stripe between the red and lower black color part seem to be the biggest differences.

 

Nah, that's crimson (purpurrot) more or less the original livery...

 

I agree with that, and would add: For many people including myself, the 103 was not only a kind of pinup-loco but also a must have for a model railway, even if you didn't have many other locos. If you wanted something fast and cool, you'd have a 103 (or maybe a 120), because a 110 or 111 simply didn't wouldn't do. It's the one loco even people who were not into trains knew about. Seeing it supercheap on offer for a game you haven't tried out so far seems like a decent attention grabber.

 

The 101 is still 4-6 months away. That's still 4-6 months of development time and what tsg have been able to do.

 

It depends on what tsg is able to do in the timeframe they have. They are a very small team after all

 

It's fascinating that the old purpurrot (pre-1974) livery was still in use at some point after 1994 and the advent of the DBAG logo. But then, I've seen photos of blue 110s and green 140s with that logo as well.

 

I just watched the April Roadmap and you're right, it's in the 4 to 6 months category. I wonder why they announced the expert loco so detailed then already so long before release?

Anyways, I hope that they can use the time left until release to improve regarding people's feedback.

 

Found some videos of the BR 101 and IC cab car at the Left Rhine.



At 2:49:


At 6:27:


At 4:28 and 7:20:


At 0:00

 

Well, DB changed it's colour conventions several times. Originally, steam locos were painted black with red wheels (as it would turn black by time from coal and ashes of burnt coal, there were no 'profit' in painting it in colours).

Later on, abandoning steam and gaining velocity, they first painted primarily passenger locos (faster train, but lighter) and primarily freight locos (slower trains, but heavier) in different colours.

Later on, let's say, after they experienced,that a more lighter painted train would be better seen at night, they went to a more colourful sceme, that could be 'seen' better in the night. So, they painted slower locos (110,218) into beige and blue, faster locos (103,120) to beige and red (according to TEE conventions).

With the starting privatisation of railroading in Europe, DB(AG) had to find a "corporate identity". So, they started to paint their locos in DB(-logo's) colours, what meant, red with a white 'something' at least, to show, that this is a train operated by DBAG, even though, they used normal 'check-up' times to repaint these locos.