Lirr Commuter - Why Did They Make A New Route?

I don't understand why Dovetail made a completely new route on top of a route that already exists on TSW. That route is the Long Island Railroad. And you still have to pay for this, even if you already own the original LIRR? Why? They should have done what they did on the Southeastern High Speed, where they increased the price to £29.99, and make the class 465 included, and extend it to Ashford International. They should have done the same here. Upgraded the current route and include the new loco, make it free for those who already own the previous LIRR. Or at least make the new loco a DLC.

 

You are so right about that just make another new route in a another state it would make the most sense

 

I completely agree, I think it's greed. From that perspective Dovetail may soon slowly turn into 2K's level of greed.

 

They can’t do everything for free and 2 prominent calls for an upgrade to LIRR and extend routes got combined together to get LIRR 2.

plus the M9 which is new and separate would have been at least £13 anyways, so no justification for the route being free.

 

I think that should have been released as a separate DLC, and upgraded the current route.

 

Upgrades still cost DTG and they would need to recoup that cost.

 

They could have also released a cheaper expansion pack for the current LIRR, like they're doing with the Peak Forest Railway. I would think it should have been around £14.99

 

£14.99 + £13 ish train, brings it back up to near or above £30 anyways

Likely sales reasons it wouldn’t make much economic sense selling separately.

 

Yeah, I can see your point.

 

I think it would have been reasonable for DTG to offer a discount to those who already own the original route

 

I agree

 

SEHS was rebuilt and extended as well. Yes, it came with TSW3, but still needed to be paid for again.

 

But still, I just think it's a scam for both cases (If you own the LIRR and the SEHS before TSW3)

 

It cost time and money. They had to recoup their costs somewhere.

They ain't going to give stuff away for free (WSR was a passion project which is why it cost nothing).

 

I can understand that.

 

It could be that the operator wanted their new train featured in the route rather than including the M3 like the Class 465 was on SEHS. Remember there was a US loco on the roadmap several months ago that could have been the M9 for LIRR, so the original intention could have been LIRR 2.0 was to be released like SEHS was, with the M9 being a loco DLC like the Class 700 on SEHS.

I suspect the route was delayed because of negotiations with the operator over such things which is why the route was not announced during the Christmas/Festival of Rail events like all the other recent DLCs have been. It could also be related to why the safety systems are permanently turned on, as a request from the operator allowing DTG to use their branding.

 

Hmm... yeah, I see your point, and they could do more USA routes in a year, not one that already exists. e.g I would have preferred a Chicago route over this.

 

It might be a very similar situation to Great Western express where to bring it upto modern standards, it would need a complete rebuild.

 

Chicago could be tricky because Metra don't seem to like working with train simulators but hopefully that'll change in the future.

 

But since this is an older route, they could have just copied and pasted the old LIRR, upgraded it and added new lines.

 

Ok

 

Like I said in the other LIRR posts, IMHO £20 would have been a more reasonable price for existing owners, together with the preorder discount.

I still think as per my other thread, this is testing the water for rebuilds and extensions which have been requested for just about every other route in the game. So if you want to see GWE extended to Oxford and/or the Thames Valley branches added or TVL pushed to Bishop Auckland and Boulby then supporting LIRR might be a decent place to start.

 

Yeah, I can see that.

 

DTG products are the only ones you can pay 3 times the equal amount of money for basically the same thing, just in 3 different versions.

1. TSC version
2. TSW version
3. Extended TSW version

 

Tsc and tsw are completely different. It's not the same thing.

 

Probably because lirr was in a not so great state to begin with so dtg had to rebuild most things and wanted some money in return to recoup costs. If it had worked well from the start, then maybe the m9 could have just been loco dlc

 

Hmm.. yeah.

 

I'll repeat what I've said before. The route has been rebuilt, with extensions and a new loco. For that I think $31-32 is not unreasonable and I will be happy to pay it as long as the previews are good.

LIRR is a 4 year old route, a lifetime in gaming. DTG has given a nod to owners of the original, so to quibble over a few bucks here or there is a little petty in my opinion. Many of us have been asking for several routes to be revamped and extended, like GWE, ECML or BML, even BPE. Are we not willing to pay for that work?

I'll be looking forward to LIRR2, but if someone wants to give it a pass and continue playing the original route that's OK too.

 

If GWE was remade, and possibly extended to Oxford like the original Rail Simulator route, that would be a dream... Although, I would like it to be based around 2019, just at the end of HST operation and the introduction of IETs... But that's a very selfish thing I'd want!

 

If I remember correctly many people wanted an improved LIRR with more services and new trains. DTG have followed through on this... just not the way we perhaps would've liked...

 

This is the one issue that I feel is a legitimate gripe among players. If DTG want to make extensions, new units, etc. and charge for it that is their prerogative (although SEHS set a somewhat different precedent). However, as you have correctly noted, LIRR original is a rather poor showing where the signals never did work correctly. It's a question of fairness if DTG release a DLC, that is so bad, that it is beyond fixing, and yet do not offer any compensation when a "solution" finally comes along. Perhaps if DTG were releasing LIRR 2.0, while also fixing the original, then it would be different. As it stands, I am of the opinion that anyone who paid for LIRR, rather that be four years or four days ago, is entitled to something now that a new one has arrived, besides the opportunity to pay full price to fix something they already have that is broken.

 

Yeah, I agree, even if I don't live in NYC.

 

I think that people don't like how they're making a route on a route that already exists in TSW.

 

Yeah, I see your point.

 

Yeah, I think it may be just greed.

 

Maybe the first LIRR should not have been in its sorry state to begin with...

 

Well, Vern has a theory that DTG are checking the market for this kind of project and he may well be right. If that's the case and LIRR2 does not sell well because of people being unwilling to pay for it, we might as well kiss goodbye to all the future extensions and rebuilds that many have been pleading for.

I notice that in another thread you're asking DTG to extend ECML to York. Would you pay for that track, scenery and York Station? Or do you think that DTG should give it away to those who already own the route?

As you're very young and new to the forum I'll cut you some slack, but calling DTG greedy several times might not be the best way to start out.

 

Which is why I'll be dropping my preorder in once it goes live on Steam later this week.

I mean, I'm probably an oddball anyway for quite liking the original. Better than Harlem with a bit of faster running, several destinations and a 15 MPH rather than 10 MPH crawl into the NY underground terminal.

 

Im not gonna teach old dog new tricks - NO to full prices for old products.

 

Yeah, maybe...

 

It won't be full price. It will be £6 off preorder. The new EMU would normally have sold for at least £12. So yes it ought to have been a bit less but you can't ask for route extensions then complain we are being made to pay twice for the product. It's exactly what the more sensible people said would happen and why DTG were perceived as reluctant to go down that road. Damned if they did and damned if they didn't. It's entertainment software. If you don't want to pay the asking price no one is forcing you to.

But I for one could name several routes where a nice 15 mile extension and a new train would have me preordering for Day One.

 

First of all: Press F to pay respects for free extensions
Secondly: I would love to see a York route so much, that maybe, just maybe, I may pay for it.
Thirdly: It should depend on the cost of the route, if it's £19.99 or £24.99, you could pay for an extension. If it's £29.99, then no.

 

Although I don't personally agree with the notion of DTG "testing the waters" in some sense with these and other releases, what I find interesting is that this sort of idea is a lose-lose proposition for the players. If LIRR sells well, DTG is encouraged to release subpar DLC, fix it up and add some bits and pieces, and sell it to us again. If LIRR does not sell well, DTG will understand that players are not interested in DLC improvements and stop making them. So whatever happens, the players don't get what they want and it's their own fault. The only way to play this game is to have no expectations that anything will be fixed, changed or improved past day 1, and if it is, you will probably have to pay for it. Of course then you have things that initially work but then break; with DTG, there is always something.

 

Yeah, but it's quite expensive though...

 

I agree, I think it's quite ridiculous...

 

Yeah, but I don't think they should have made an entirely new route for an already existing route. I that, they should have waited till now to release a LIRR route.

 

Was explained in numerous threads why they couldn’t offer a discount to Sony or Xbox players.

 

Although this is true, I find the official DTG line about this a little simplistic. Although discounts are reportedly problematic, surely DTG can set their own price? There is no apparent reason DTG couldn't set a lower price for a certain time period, and then let it be well-known when the price would "rise" or "return to normal," thereby satisfying longstanding players while not losing out much to first-time purchasers. There are probably other creative ways that this could have been handled as well. (Upgrade to TSW4, get LIRR, like with SEHS). No doubt DTG felt it wasn't worth the bother. But let's not pretend their hands were completely tied.

 

I'm gonna say this. A remaster wasn't gonna save the original LIRR. It's genuinely awful(But Solid for TSW 1 Standards). Nothing about that route is Salvageable, so to an extent it does make sense why this is the case(Not to mention SEHS also went through the same thing. Even if you had bought TSW 3(with the three core routes which most people did) you had to pay for it AGAIN, but it did have the 465) I do have a good feeling about LIRR 2, but the way DTG is executing it is poor. But too be fair tho the new route was built from the ground up and the signaling and it systems were massively overhauled as well. But this upgrade should have been free to those who have the existing route

 

But from what I gather from Matt, Brandon et al., this project involved a huge amount of development work, not even counting the time spent on license negotiations. It seems incredible to me that people are seriously suggesting that none of that needs to be paid for.

If players don't want to pony up, they are welcome to continue with the 2020 version which is untouched.

Surely this attitude to rebuilds and extensions will ensure that none of the extensions and additions to other routes for which people are clamoring will ever be built.