Matt has been very candid in recent discussions here that the main barrier to new project selection for certain genres of content in TSW is direct access to rail company property and equipment. Being more specific, he has stated that without direct audio recording access certain projects are a flat out no. This policy appears to apply even where DTG may have licensing in place to proceed, but without the access to record direct audio it's not going to happen. This policy is based on feedback from customers according to Matt and there certainly is no shortage of critical reviews and comments on the internet with regard to this subject to support that claim. Like anything, with repetition and experience comes improvement. I personally think DTG has done a good job of improving the audio experience of their content with each new release. Ideally of course, a pristine, hi-res, studio quality sound sample is the ideal starting point for an audio project, but it's not the end of the story. The current crop of DAWs with various plugins can go a long way in filling in the gaps and polishing a not so perfect sound sample in to something quite respectable. It may not be the ideal or real thing for that matter, but is it good enough? Is this a reasonable compromise to make so new content can continue with a wide variety of genres? Think about this seriously for a moment and cast your vote.
We know that Armstrong Powerhouse has a very large library of very good sound recordings. In many cases the problem has been that <coughBR187cough> the AP recordings were used, but their implementation was poor. Provided AP is willing to license them, and DTG have a good audio engineer on staff (whoever did the Taurus is brilliant), then that could be a very acceptable way to introduce new locos without first-hand access.
Alot of the time the problem isnt the sounds itself rather the implementation. However on trains like the 385 it shouldnt have been released sounding like that.
To be fair though, there is no shortage of critical comments on the internet regarding ANY subject. Those comments sadly have a tendency to be heard the most, even if the people who express them are not always in majority. It's usually not a good base to make a desicion on, and therefore I thank you for raising this subject. For me the most important thing is that the sounds are convincing, even if they might be collected from different sources. I understand that people want to have their favourite train recreated down to the smallest detail, but the reality is that most of us who use a particular train in TSW have never heard it in real life and probably won't be able to spot that a certain sound might be a bit off and not 100 percent correct. As I said, as long as it is a convincing experience I'm happy with that. Especially if the alternative is getting nothing at all. I feel that the sounds in general have improved a great deal in recent years, and most sound problems for me anyway stems from early content not always faring well in the transition to newer versions of TSW. I know that noone wants to talk about it, but a lot of german sounds and also the LIRR-sounds got broken in the transition between TSW2020 and TSW2 and never really got put right again. I think the majority of all sounds in TSW are of excellent quality, and especially the soundscapes still amazes me on a regular basis, even with well over a thousand hours in the game.
In the case of the 700 and 801, frankly it’s the mixing and levels which are downright awful. I have nothing against synthesising sound within reason, after all if DTG ever did an older AC or even DC UK EMU you can’t go out and record as they are all scrapped. However with decent references from archive footage (note I do say reference, not source) an audio engineer worth his/her salt should be able to produce a likeness from the sounds they do have access to. However as we have seen, even where they do have quality samples they seem to botch it. So in principle, yes I would have a Class 310 or Class 423 4VEP in the game but with the proviso the sound must be as close to the prototype as possible. Of course it gets harder with diesel traction, as for example, a Sulzer aType 2 doesn’t really sound like anything else and we would cry foul at any attempt to alias with something else.
As long as sufficient recordings from elsewhere are able to make the train sound remotely like it's real life counterpart. For example, the motor sounds of the 1972 stock aren't from a 1972 stock, but they sound good enough to me. Others may disagree.
The fact DTG release trains in the state they do is crazy to me. None of the DTG team noticed that the 801 is even remotely quiet? Us poor console users having to play the game with no mods with trains like the 385 which are genuinely deafening
I disagree, sounds nothing like the real train and uses sounds over 10 years old from TSC’s class 455 DLC
I do feel there is not one answer that fits all. For example the 700 sounds good enough (though the implementation seems slightly off still, but the the 385 just sounds shocking. I do think with older locos/units which are gone or 'in storage' finding something which sounds right would be good enough. Saying that on the whole the BR diesels are some of the best sounding things in the game.
Well it only annoys me a bit when I know how the train sounds in real life. One thing that bothered me is the sound of the TGV. The sound itself is ok but it's to quiet. In real life it's way louder.
If I know how they sound in real life, as long as the sounds are convincing enough to sound like the real thing it doesn't bother me.
The 700 doesn't sound at all good enough. Theres virtually no running sounds, the DC motor sounds are just looping 350 sounds. No change in pitch just constant and it gets really annoying especially in lower speed zones
audio is the most important immersion factor, day and night, in fair weather and in foul, summer, winter, all year round audio is often the unwanted stepchild of a developer as one needs to go out to the actual trains to record good audio needless to say, in the game that TSW isa, there is lots of bad audio and very few pieces of rolling stock with good audio
Sound is a important part of the immersion of this game. If they can't get proper sounds, then don't bother making a route. Too much rolling stock in this game has audio that is either poorly implemented or outright bad. Class 385, OBB 4024, Class 700, Class 801 are just some examples. If DTG are charging $40 for routes then we have every right to expect sounds to be of a high quality and that attitude seems to be reflected by most in the community and rightly so
To me, it's usually just a sliding range of what is actually acceptable as sound. What's important to me personally is: Does it sound like a train? Is the sound quality good? (Varies per platform) How far is it from the real deal? Does it cut out randomly? Can I hear an audible loop? These are usually the questions I ask to myself before rating a train. Rarely do I ask "Is it the REAL sounds?" Because I don't expect it to be. Sound can be a particular pain to acquire, and you can very well just substitute it for something else that sounds similar enough to where it doesn't ruin the experience. Now, of course, I wouldn't apply any of this to anyone that has actually driven the thing IRL because obviously they can point out just about everything that's wrong with it. What matters to me is that it's not disruptive to gameplay, that it isn't tedious to listen to and that it'd certainly sound like the type of Train it is, even if it's not the exact make and model.
To my ears the actual sounds themselves are fine, it is just some of the mixing and implementation of them which is questionable.
I don't mind it if the sounds aren't actually recorded from the real thing, but they need to sound plausible. Remember that real-life recordings don't guarantee good sounds. The Electrostars sound quite odd, and the Train Simulator Class 323 had recorded sounds but mixed appallingly.
I don't see why more trains cannot have updates on sound, the class 47 had two updates and now sounds really good and the Taurus has also had 2 updates and now sounds a lot better.
the TGV looks bad if DTG will make new sounds it will be on new base if dtg can make precorder on a Tgv réseau or duplex and make a control C and V is not really important the 2 gen of tgv looks so similar in Real life the only problem could be the coaches
Yes. Full immersion in the sounds etc brings everything together. The azuma needs this tweaked. Running sounds too low etc, no guard buzzer sounds.
The sounds of the SD40-2 and SD70ACe are unbearably unrealistic. If they had good sounds I would play so much more.
So when picking an option like " A variety of new content is important to me! Do the best you can with audio." it'd be really helpful for me to understand where the line is for you in terms of acceptable vs not. Come up with some favourite new loco's you would like to see in the game, and pick from the sounds in the game currently - so for example "I'd love to see an SD60M, and honestly, if the best you can do is an SD40-2 soundset, then you know what, i'll take it" (i've randomly picked two locos there, don't rip me apart). Or maybe "heck, an XYZ loco, sounds a lot like a throaty ABC loco with a turbo whine and the horn from the ACD loco would be good" - we can do sound edits. What I can make no guarantees about is recording new audio for freight. Another alternative is, for example, "if only you could get a Amtrak X, because thats what a BNSF Y sounds like basically" - if its a passenger operator there's more of a chance we could get those sounds and use those instead. CSX SD40-2 afaik are from an SD40-2, but supplied to us as their source recordings from a model train manufacturer and were quite old so probably had really old recording tech. CSX GP38-2 and CSX AC4400CW came from the same place at the same time. Best we could do without access to the real thing, and if not this it would have been copying from TSC. SD70ACe is straight up class 66. Actually - TS Classic. Another angle is perhaps to say "You know what, X loco in TSC had decent enough sounds, i'd accept those coming over". We can't always use the TSC versions because the way audio is cut and edited isnt necessarily compatible with the way it needs to be done for TSW but sometimes we can, or sometimes we can take bits of it and layer it over the top of another trains audio. The obvious ideal answer is record new audio, but as of now, that's simply not on the table - we're constantly working to try and change that, but as of right now, it's not. So - based on some of the ideas above, i'm interested to see where your line is. It will help me try to find a happy medium for what we might be able to explore. Interesting thread, let's continue the discussion and explore the options - I encourage everyone to have an open mind, and remove any angst, if you simply dont want anything that has no fully authentic recordings - thats fully valid, simply say it, and allow everyone else the same freedom to speak their mind calmly. Matt.
There are definitely some trains in TS that sound alright and I wouldn't mind if trains in TSW used the same sounds. The Class 70 (not sure if you'd be able to use its sounds) in TS sounds okay but has some horrible clipping. The Voyager sounds don't sound that different to the AP sound pack but I don't know if it means the DTG sounds are good or the AP sounds are bad. That said I doubt sounds would be too difficult to get for a TSW Voyager anyway. It's controversial but I actually liked the way the original S9BL Class 390 and original Networker sounded in TS. Bad sounds by all means but in some ways I actually prefer how they sound to real life! Interestingly the Class 465 in the new Chatham Main Line had new sounds which were far worse than what was there before, although I don't think you had anything to do with that. The trouble is when you take reusing sounds too far. Individual sounds from the RSDL F7 have been used in TSW on the F7 and other locos and although I don't know that much about the real train I'm not convinced that a GP9 would sound like that. Similarly, the Voyager sounds in TS were re-used time and time again on trains that sound nothing like that in real life, such as the diesel hydraulic 175 and 180, the ICE-TD and some other German units that I can't think of right now. Plausibility is everything. The developers of Forza get told off by the community for reusing sounds on cars that don't sound like the way they made them. The 700 in TS used completely incorrect AC sounds taken from the 395 of all trains, whereas the 700 in TSW used AC sounds from the 350 for the DC motors of the 700. While it would have been better with sounds from the actual train due to minor differences in how the trains sound it isn't a huge problem overall.
Tbh as mentioned earlier at least with uk routes it’s usually not the sounds but the mixing, I think perfecting the mixing is the final step. There are a few units with poor sounds (385 and 150) but they aren’t DTG locos
It's not just mixing - though that is definitely an issue. The 150's problem primarily is the physics, if the physics aren't quite right, that knocks on to the audio since that's driven by the physics. I think rather than mixing, let's just call it "audio setup" and encompass editing, mixing, physics etc etc" all in that mix because it's all so interwoven. That's one of the reasons that taking TSC sounds won't work - there's lots of one-shot sounds used in TSC that are triggered at the right moments but in TSW the whole thing is constantly playing and tuned at runtime by simugraph parameters e.g. traction motors linked dynamically to the audio setup so that no matter what you're doing on the motors the audio is set up so that it does what it should. If you only have oneshots, then you kinda have to say "im accelerating, so play the accelerating audio" which is great... until you stop accelerating before the oneshot finishes - or change how much and nothing changes in the audio etc. Its a lot harder to setup and get right but the end result is brilliant imho and worth the effort. Matt.
However, the engines do sound slightly different and the ICE TD has clearly audible traction motors. ICE TD departing Copenhagen Central Station (youtube.com) What an amazing sound! Class 220 Voyager idles and fires off from Derby - Departure - (youtube.com) Of course the DLCs are both quite old now and sound patches for both exist, but the point I'm trying to make is to make sure past sound-related shenanigans don't repeat themselves.
If you're not using real proper sounds, you're repeating shenanigans. It all becomes a level of tolerance at that point. While you're perhaps looking at that ICE-TD and going "ugh i can never drive that" someone else is probably thinking "yes! at least i got an ICE-TD!". hence this thread - I want to try and find a way to gauge tolerances, so that I can open opportunities that might be acceptable vs shutting out options and that will mean less content. What i'm trying to highlight is - don't just say "i dont mind if they're not 100% accurate" because you might be tricking yourself into what that actually means. I'm saying - assume its a copy-paste from one or more existing locos from TSW/TSC and do some active assessments for yourself on what you think you'd be happy with, vs what you're not. Only then is that poll actually valid imho. Otherwise i'm gonna read that poll and think "hey sounds arent that important, let's go make an XYZ with ABc sounds because they're pretty close" and then see "ugh i cant drive this its unbearable" in the reviews. Matt.
BTW just to add - im not saying anyone is wrong, or right. Your opinion is yours and you're entitled to it. I am trying to gauge the broad view, so I want to hear everyones genuine honest thoughts, but in as much detail as possible please Matt.
For me personally, I'd always prefer the audio to be directly from the locomotive or unit that's being simulated as a first preference. Where the first preference is not possible, I'd go for an audio mix that is sourced elsewhere as long as A) it actually sounds very similar to the train it is simulating. B) that sounds outside of the engine/traction motors such as cab/wheel running sounds are taken from other recordings and added to the audio mix (if possible). The other option that could be added to the suggestions is 'temporary' audio sounds, where when a unit or locomotive can not have a sound recording taken directly from it (for a number of reasons), a temporary but quality substitute could be made until a time when the sounds can be implemented. I've also wondered could recordings from YouTube be used and implemented in anyway? (Obviously with permission). But genuine curiosity, could they be in anyway used at all? As there are many buttons, doors closing sounds, and traction motor sounds of stuff that's been withdrawn. (An example is Southern Region Slamdoor stock). Anyway that's my two pence piece!
There are instances that I don't like the sounds but I think personally its just poor mixing or perhaps the Xbox audio issue. Lately i have found them good and the DTG ones are generally ones I don't really notice. It the third party products. BR187, 1938 Underground, Horseshoe Curve really stand out. I didn't think the US frieght was that bad, it could have been louder with some more reverb but the locos DTG made are pretty close to what I hear passing by my house on the frieght line out of Calgary. And they all sound the same to me for the most part. But then living here I'm only familiar with North American freight, no passenger service except LRT's. I can tell a Siemens U2 from a Siemens SD-160 or an S200.
The problem isnt so much whether what's there currently is bad - just that from here on out, currently, I have no source audio, so everything is compromised for US freight. Very, very rarely. We work with Fanrailer and have used some sounds from him - but he sends us the raw audio he's recorded and he uses some decent gear. Most youtube videos have a number of common problems: Mobile phone for a mic or worse Background noise Wind The train is moving but the audio collector (mic) is not - this creates doppler effect and while it can somewhat be compensated for, every single modification you make to your source audio makes it objectively worse overall. So if you're filtering out wind, filtering out background chatter, then adjusting for doppler - the end result is generally pretty bad. Matt.
That’s basically my stance. Around 80% of the locos on this game I know nothing about in real life or really care to research them. When it comes to the audio authenticity, as long as the trains I do know sound half decent I can live with that. No audio is perfect in simulation. Gran Turismo 7 & Forza Motorsport are perfect examples of this too. People should keep their expectations low. The audio will never be to your satisfaction.
Thanks for all of the great comments in this thread so far! I've read them all and the members this community have a lot passion for their favorite locos, rolling stock and routes. Please keep posting your ideas on this subject and if you haven't responded to the poll, please do! DTG is genuinely interested in what the community has to say and as you can see, once again Matt has spent a great deal of time participating in this thread. Thank you Matt! Well said Matt and let me add something here. I sincerely believe that the DTG team works diligently to produce an outstanding experience for their customers. Each DTG team member pours their heart and soul in to their designated area of responsibility and they're proud of their work. If something about a product doesn't meet your expectations it can be disappointing for sure. Remember, it's most likely disappointing for them too when they hear that their work may not have been what you were expecting. It can be really hurtful to have your hard work dismissed in a blast of frustration by someone on a forum post. I think most of the DTG crew have a passion for trains and this hobby just like us. They want to get it right! Be tactful with a solution oriented evaluation of what you think. That's much more likely to be a win/win outcome for everyone. This thread is a pretty good example of that and let's keep it going. Thanks!
It isn't just loco sounds that matter, the ambient sounds in places can help improve a route, or kill the immersion. Remember when Cane Creek had deafening highway sounds on release?
One thing I should say, if a train has a distinct sound that no other train has, I would much rather sounds sourced from the real thing. You always know when a 185 is pulling up, for example. Haven't yet come across a train that sounds remotely like them.
Being a long time DTG customer, I am aware that many of their products need rework, that's as valid for TSC as for TSW. Deal breakers are missing sounds like some Dostos, 1442 and the worst-of-all Skyhook BR 187 (completely MISSING sounds & HSC ES44 with its horrible chipper engine sounds. ItsYa165 has provided many fine soundmods. So all in all, as a PC user, I'm glad for community fixes so imperfect sounds are kind of "bearable", because there's modders who have more freedom to accomplish things than a commercial dev who often has to pay lots of money for audio recordings. (And there's only so much percentage of the budget allowed to go into recordings.) -> more variety is my choice - even if imperfect. That's a PC user's choice. I am aware that console players will have a different view, but as I've chosen PC as a gaming platform, I don't have to care.
it's a little bit the same things on tgv réseau ,Atlantique, duplex (200) the 3 trains looks really similar and if dtg for example get precorder sound on a duplex 200 you can still use sound of 200 on a réseau or Atlantique
The Class 47 on BPO is wondrous to hear. I dream that some day we will get Inverness to Perth, or even just Pitlochry, so we can rag it over Schlod and Druimachder Summits with a 15 coach overnight sleeper train.
I've picked the "do your best" option, and here's an example. I would love to see the c2c (London, Tilbury & Southend) line in TSW, as I've posted in various threads since getting into this game properly a year or so ago. I'm not enough of an expert to notice 'close but not 100% accurate' engine sounds, so remixing other Electrostar train engine sounds (375/377/387 etc.) would be fine for me as long as they were close enough, but distinctive sounds such as door opening/closing beeps would need to be accurate (and not, say, the Aventra ones). And if train announcements become a thing in core, then ideally the correct announcements (or if not available, re-recorded with a very similar voice).
Just ditch myself into this thread with a couple of quotes to reply to. Yes, I always see these comments, here in the Forums, YouTube, Steam reviews. And of course everyone can tell their opinion that a DLC with a respectable price tag should have proper recordings. However, if this discussion goes as far as to say "We can't make new locos, because we don't get access to record real audio and people are unhappy with that." things turn in a direction where the matter suddenly becomes absurd. Of course, everybody want's authentic sounds. Nobody's saying "Yes, Go ahead and copy and paste that tune in that loco - Yeah!". But I think people should be able to draw a line at a moment where it decides whether or not locos could come to TSW, whether or not operators could be dealt licenses with, whether or not routes come into TSW. Unfortunatly, as it seems, we reached and maybe even crossed that point of absurdity and abstraction. However, it's easy to make a comment on the Forums, YouTube or Steam Reviews complaining about something. It's reasonable critic to consider, but in the end same persons might enjoy the content/DLC completely otherwise (as much that they didn't refund it either). In my opinion, The only thing to take this concern serious is whether DTG really has proof and evidence of a relation of sales to audio quality. As someone who spend years with DAWs and - fun fact - "remastered" about 3000 songs on YouTube as a hobby, I would say it's not that easy to get an audio record sound authentic, good and real if it wasn't in the first place. There are basically three options: 1. You take the poor record you have and get the best out of it as you can with maybe a list of fency plugins worth of thousands of dollars and in the end it might not matter because it lacks of quality and in the end is all subjective as well (that's what I did, but I just had fun - it isn't a commercial product I wanted to offer in comparison to DTG). 2. (Possible for some sounds only) You could go ahead and synthesize sounds in Massive, Serum or dozens of other synths I have in my collection (free or payware) , but hitting the exact spot is very complicated and the result after a couple of hours creating might doesn't sound close to what you aimed for as well. 3. You get a record of a different loco and then do some bits of point 1. and bits of point 2. (maybe even adding some other sounds in the background for example just to even the frequency spectrum or satisfy the listener) and then you mix all of these together to get the "perfect blend". However, this perfect blend might still not be the thing you aimed for. So as a conclusion, I'd rather getting the authentic records of the real loco or just reusing the real but different loco is still the best choice to go with. My point is pretty much clear to that topic. I would be willing that you could reuse sounds from X loco if that means I get Y loco. The more locos in TSW, the better. Point. However, as other and me already suggested in the past, just because you couldn't obtain sounds from Y loco, doesn't necessarily mean that Y loco should have the sounds of X loco forever. You still could do an upgrade/fix/choose however you call it of real and authentic sounds of Y loco in the future and bring it to Y loco. Apart from this thread and poll, there was a question in the February player survey about what one prefers/prioritize when acquiring new DLCs if I remember. "Original Audio" was one of the 13 or 14 entries we could choose to place in the order of one's own priority. While I think this priority vote still is a bit susceptible and could be seen critical because just because you placed a few entries at the top doesn't (or simply had no other priority space left) doesn't mean you don't care about it. Me for example, I placed the "Original Audio" pretty much at the bottom, simply because of all the other entries possible and due to the question asked, it was the less important one I consider to purchase a new DLC for. Didn't you got some results from that survey in regard to this question to that topic already?
Agreed. I'm really happy in the semmering stream we got more insight on why the 4024 still has the talent 2 sounds. it's a shame it took so long to get to know ÖBB can't give much access because their depot is still in covid mode so only the most important people can go in. In the case of the 4024 it may have wrong sounds but it's miles better than for example completely silent dosto's or the 187 or 182 having missing sifa or even traction motor sounds for years. Of course we all want authentic sounds for everything. but for example the 4024 is my limit. if it's not possible try the best you can and even after release still trying to get the sounds when possible. I personally don't recognise most trains by sounds although a 182 or 1116 with it's tone ladder sounding like a 185 is very wrong. so I suppose it depends on how special the sound of the rolling stock is. if it actually sounds generic than sure. if not possible to sample anything, mix something that sounds like it. Sound isn't the most important thing in the survey I must agree with Robert above me. and I'd love to see more rolling stock. but really wrong sounds like the 187 before updates can really break however great the model or route may be.
I don’t think the second option in the poll can ever really happen. TSW with only eight trains in it doesn’t sound too appealling.
Thank you Matt for your informative reply on the YouTube sounds, really appreciated! The thread is quite interesting. As already stated I do sit on the side of "I like the audio where possible to be taken directly from a locomotive/unit". It really adds something to the game for me. I don't think it sit alone here as Armstrong Powerhouse seems to have built an entire business off of the back of authentic sound packs being sold separately. The Class 377 from BML with the fantastic sounds has stood the test of time to me, as it really stands out as a fantastic sounding unit. One of the big let downs of TS2012s original London to Brighton was the really poor implementation of the sounds for the 377. It was a real worry when I heard the TSW London to Brighton was being developed. But when I heard the sounds on the 377 in the BML it still to this day impresses me. And something as distinctive sounding as an EMU (Class 465s, Electrostars etc... which sound great in the game with authentic sounds) would sound really out of place if they did not have their authentic sounds. Rivets Class 385 really hammers this point home to me, it's a fantastic model, but one of the biggest complaints about it from myself and others? The terrible audio mix used for it.
The one thing I've learned about Dovetail Games is that if you give them an inch they'll take a mile, so you're discussing immersive aspects of a particular route then recycled/incorrect audio should be looked upon no differently to recycled/incorrect assets...and we know exactly where the community stands with the latter, don't we? As has already been mentioned, DTG charge a premium price for their addons so until such a time when they start charging budget prices for defective content then the quality of their products should always be an accurate reflection of that price.
Well it would certainly mean that there could be no more new American locos, since access is currently impossible. The other point I would make is related to where the player is from. I'm from the US so I hear freight, commuter and Amtrak locos passing by almost every day. I have a pretty good idea of how they sound. I can tell a Gevo from a Geep from a P42 from an F40PH as it were. On the other hand, I love to drive a UK Class 20 or a Class 101 dmu. I have never heard either in real life ( I don't think ) so I have no idea how they really sound. But they sound pretty good to me. Same with German/Swiss/ Austrian trains. I read what native players think of those sounds and I think, well, sounds OK, it's fine. So US loco sounds are important to me but, frankly, I couldn't care less what other countries' locos sound like in TSW. I mean I don't know what a 700 or a 465 should sound like, so I really can't offer an opinion. I hope this makes sense.
Well, how about starting from really basic stuff, that is, removing the audible looping sounds? I mean these cases when you can hear the quick pause in the sound being replayed? What will you have from the best sounds sources in the world if it is badly mixed (and I guess audible looping is case of bad sound mixing)? It's really immersion killer in my opinion.
Can only really repeat what I said earlier, it's very subjective. You can also get away with more when it comes to audio with an EMU (within reason as we know from the poor results with the 700 and 801). For example if the previously mentioned Class 310 went in the game, but the only audio source available was a 321 I would accept it. But as I said, the Class 24, 25, 26 and 27 have a distinctive Sulzer rasp which not even the slightly bigger Class 33 would be an acceptable alias. As regards DMU's, well the current 101 is definitely a compromise. The one in TSW sounds more like a Leyland engined version which were rare or only in the latter days when they had replacement engines fitted. The majority of Metro Cammell units were fitted with AEC engines which, coupled with the transmission gave a much smoother whine than the harsher Leylands.
You actually think the Taurus sounds are briliant when in cab you can barely hear the traction motors and the running sounds are similar to a vacuum cleaner rather than a heavy 80 ton vehicle running over the track ?? I do not agree, I have seen tons of cab videos and they do not match the TSW in any form. You can actually hear the power converters and engines from the cab without turning the volume to 150% You can compare this to Vectron and see what a huge difference in audio quality you have. You can't tell me this is what you hear in game
