Extending Dresden-riesa, But Where To?

With all the talk of route extensions since LIRR was announced, I've noticed something interesting: quite a few people suggest it should be extended, but they can't really seem to agree what exactly the extension should be. It's clearly a very popular route, and people want more of it, but the route doesn't seem to have anything obviously missing from it.

Here are some of the ideas I've seen people post, and some of my thoughts on them.

• Dresden-Neustadt - Dresden-Klotzsche - Dresden Flughafen
  The most popular suggestion, but I can't think of any reason for that other than "DTG originally announced then cancelled it". I just don't think it adds anything particularly interesting.
• Merging Nahverkehr Dresden with Tharandter Rampe
  Another obvious one. However, there aren't really any trains that go from Chemnitz to Riesa via Dresden, so that wouldn't add anything either.
• Riesa - Leipzig or Dresden Hbf - Bad Schandau - Schöna
  To me, both of these have the major flaw that they don't really add any new experiences - they just make the existing experience (a lot!) longer.
• Dresden Hbf/Mitte - Dresden-Friedrichstadt - Coswig
  This would add a lot of gameplay for freight trains, but it isn't really enough to justify a re-release of the route.

In my opinion, the best option is one I haven't seen suggested anywhere else yet:

Add Großenhain - Elsterwerda, Riesa - Elsterwerda, and Dresden-Friedrichstadt

(C) Openstreetmap contributors

These three segments are about 50 km in total. I think they are the optimal addition to Nahverkehr Dresden because, as well as add some interesting experiences of their own - regional trains run along all of them, most notably the RB31 - they also make a lot of what is already in the route a lot better.

This is especially true for the "Avoiding Linie" (Berliner Bahn) via Weinböhla. All the AI only long distance trains going towards Berlin would become playable as far as Elsterwerda. Freight trains also take this route, of course.

Riesa would also become so much more than what it currently is. It is a regional freight hub, with the large steelworks at the station itself, a spur to a harbour, and more industry served by the railway along the route to Elsterwerda. With this, and the freight yard in Dresden-Friedrichstadt, this extended route would become the best route for German freight operations by far.

The additional track (except for Dresden-Friedrichstadt) runs through sparsely populated rural area and doesn't have very complex infrastructure, so I believe this would have a very favourable ratio of effort to additional gameplay. The new loco included with this should be a DB class 290 or a similar "road switcher" for the local freight runs around Riesa.

 

Excellent ideas so far speaking of this one

First one is in TSC while the 2nd one is the Elbtalbahn Dresden Hbf Nidergrund Bodenbach KkStb via Bad Schandau I had to use the Austrian KkStb ÖBB predecessor names for Dolni Zleb and Decin.

 

I like it! Already one of my fave routes made even better.

Not sure if you saw in the LIRR thread Matt said they would not be considering extensions for recent routes. Not sure if D-R would count since it got a minor touch-up with the TSW4 launch.

 

Dra and dcz wouldn't work anyway. One is set in 2012 and the other is set in modern day. Also that merging is not possible in tsw due to technical reasons

 

Doesn’t the line to Meissen go on further? That might be nice to have.

 

It would add 2 interesting experiences.

First we maybe could see airplanes (departing/arriving) at the airport at Dresden-Grenzstraße


Second, the S-Bahn running underground/going subway into the airport shoft after Dresden-Grenzstraße.


Being Dresden airport as the last station like a subway station:

For most I agree, but a at least an extension to Pirna would provide more rapid transit stations to Dresden. Look at all these stations running south east off Dresden main station up to Pirna. With this you could have a real rapid transit commuter for Dresden's own network. Also considering the fullfilment of the airport branch, the S2 would be complete from Pirna to Dresden Flughafen.

If done right, it would justify it.
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/dra-rb31-and-dresden-friedrichstadt-gbf-expansion.79483/
We could have several interesting locations with the Friedrichstadt branch. First of all, Dresden-Friedrichstadt, Dresden biggest station

with the remarkable "Waltherstraße" bridge over the tracks.


At Cossebaude, we would ride along the Elbe river


The Niederwartha bridge over the Elbe river

The Speichersee (resevoir) Niederwartha

And as you suggested in the other thread, maybe even a branch to Dresden harbour Alberthafen near Friedrichstadt:

 

An extension to Leipzig and the Airport would be my top 2.

If it went to Leipzig that opens up the door for not only longer services but with Leipzig HBF properly built this time there’s a higher chance DTG could use it again in the future as well as Rapid transit AI going in and out the City tunnel.

If it went to the airport as originally planned we’d get a unique underground section like RT as well as longer services for the 143.

Either is a win

 

It runs to a place called Nossen and furthermore Döbeln. Since 2015 there is no Regionalbahn service on the route between Meißen, Nossen and Döbeln anymore. The financial support is missing to modernize and keep the route maintained properly. It's only used for the transport of some tank wagons now.

You can read it here:
https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/sach...nverkehr-doebeln-meissen-stilllegung-100.html

 

Riesa Leipzig makes the most sense. They could just simply reuse/remaster the Talent 2 1442 and plus it could open an opportunity to provide the ICE T(Did you know there's an Austrian Variant as well)

 

Why not, S2, S8, RE1, RE2, RB 33 (Könisbrück), RB 60 (Görlitz), RB 61(Zittau). OK, for the S8, the REs and the RBs they would have to build extra a Siemens Desiro BR 642 in VVO-Livery just for this route, as this is the VVO Dieselnetz...what a pity, that the BR 642 isn't in the game already...^^.



Oh, wasn't there something I missed?

 

Just to add to all this, Matt did say that they'd now strongly consider pairing a new loco with such an extension. Given the addition of a large new freight yard, the ubiquitous V90 would be an excellent addition to truly hone in on the freight gameplay.

 

That's a very good idea. Here we see the V90/BR 290 (and others) in action in Dresden-Friedrichstadt

 

I would also like to see Zeithain included. It would be served by hourly RB45s out of Riesa and is kind of like Hufschlag on Salzburg-Rosenheim

 

It probably does count as recent, but it's not going to do so forever...

That's true, and Pirna also has a freight yard. I still think the Elsterwerda extension would be a better use of DTGs resources though. The line to Pirna runs elevated through a dense urban environment the whole way, so it would be quite complex to build. It doesn't fix DRA's shortcomings (trains to Berlin stay on the map for ages but aren't playable; Riesa is underdeveloped), and it would also terminate just before the line really becomes interesting. I would rather get Dresden-Pirna as part of a full standalone Elbe Valley route all the way to Ústí nad Labem at some point.

I do want Friedrichstadt - but in addition to the Elsterwerda lines, not just on its own. I wouldn't want to pay full new route prices for just those 10 km of new track. Friedrichstadt and Elsterwerda work great as a package in my opinion because they both really expand the scope of DRA on the freight side, and they're both part of the old Dresden-Berlin route. And of course, RB31 runs over both sections of the line.

Honestly that's specifically what I'm trying to avoid. Of course extending to Leipzig would allow for longer services, but I don't actually want that. Not everyone wants to play (or has time for) 90 minute services - the 45 minute journey from Dresden to Riesa, or Dresden to Meißen is right around the sweet spot for me, and given the popularity of the route, I don't think I'm alone with that opinion. So I'd rather add new stuff that adds new services that are similar in length to what we already have than make the existing ones longer.

I just think it's a lot of hassle just for the 15 minute trip to Klotzsche, and it doesn't add anything to the part of the route that's already in the game. To me, it kind of feels like grafting about 1/4 of a standalone DLC onto the route for no reason other than the route starts at the same station. It's just a completely separate experience to Dresden-Riesa and only interacts with it between Dresden Hbf and Neustadt.

You'd get a lot of use out of the V90 with Friedrichstadt and the lines to Elsterwerda. There are the steelworks, harbour, and an oil facility in Riesa; a stone quarry at Röderau station; a big industrial area at Zeithain; large metalworks at Gröditz; and the Elsterwerda "Rail Port", am intermodal facility. You'd get some lovely road runs between Riesa and the facilities, and shunting in-between.

 

After playing the TSC version last night, Leipzig and integrate with a fully reworked RT and buffed 1442 for an eastern Germany mega route!

 

As it's diesel it's quite an other experience and I must admit, not really sure, about the Southeastern extension, was like "glueing" a couple of new landscape tiles to the old map, or have they been already there before, but just not a developed scenery, because of, well, running out of time at some point. I wouldn't be that astonished, if, all in all, at first, setting a most large possible scope (with the basic landscape tiles) and when it becomes clearer, what could be achieved in the given time, concentrating on a 'core'. That would seem to me like a professional approach for a company, that somehow has to be economically viable.

For example, on Harlem Line, in free roam, you can also go up the New Haven Line to New Rochelle, as the tracks are already laid, with functioning signalling. Just scenery is missing. So,I wouldn't be to upset, if they would release a "Harlem Line Extended", with New Haven line until New Rochelle and the M9 I think.

 

You'll run into problems with Friedrichstadt it's Hump operated like Barstow, CA Cajon Pass followed by Austria Salzburg Gnigl and Wien Kledering. Also RRO RSN Hagen Vorhalle SKA Köln Kalk Nord RT Lepzig Engelsdorf TSC Hamburg Hannover Maschen the Hump Yard with Retarders. Which means the 363 G6 204 365 must be hump capable

 

I would love an extension of the S1 to Pirna or better yet to Schöna. (Driving along the river Elbe through beautiful Saxon Switzerland. But the paddle steamers shouldn't be missing.)

 

This all sounds interesting, but I guess for the people who are not 100% aware of this extension and the possibilities how that would improve the experience, maybe you could add some more precise information in detail about it.

Here is what I found (including another suggestion combining your and my ideas).

The route extension to Elsterwerda would indeed open a lot of freight locations.


Railport Elsterwerda. This seems to be an important regional freight hub but with a few tracks.


Schmiedewerke Gröditz



Rohrwerk Zeithain:




But the cool thing would be if instead of only the triangle between Elsterwerda, Röderau and Großenhain, they could make a square out of it to include the connection to Ruhland. This would A. provide the BASF Schwarzheide plant, but also B. 4 new connections from 1. Röderau to Elsterwerda, 2. Großenhain further up to Ruhland, 3. Großenhain to Elsterwerda and 4. Elsterwerda to Ruhland over Lauchhammer. A complete new freight and passenger service network added to DRA, and we could continue the RE15 and R18 serivces to Ruhland, which in the current version of DRA end already at Großenhain Cottbuser Bahnhof


The Station Ruhland is a relatively big node between all those cities surrounding and nowadays also used as split point to the connections to the bigger cities Hoyerswerda and Cottbus and contains the following connections:


RE 11 Hoyerswerda – Ruhland – Elsterwerda-Biehla – Falkenberg (Elster) – Torgau – Eilenburg – Leipzig 120 DB Regio Nordost
RE 13 Cottbus – Senftenberg – Ruhland – Elsterwerda-Biehla – Elsterwerda 120 DB Regio Nordost
RE 15 Hoyerswerda – Ruhland – Großenhain – Priestewitz – Dresden 120 DB Regio Nordost[6]
RE 18 Cottbus – Senftenberg – Ruhland – Großenhain – Priestewitz – Dresden 120 DB Regio Nordost
RB 49 Cottbus – Senftenberg – Ruhland – Elsterwerda-Biehla – Falkenberg (Elster) 120 DB Regio Nordost
S 4 Hoyerswerda – Ruhland – Elsterwerda-Biehla – Falkenberg (Elster) – Eilenburg – Leipzig – Leipzig-Stötteritz – Wurzen 120 DB Regio Südost






Also as Lamplight suggested, the V90 (BR 294) could be used here for delivering freight to the close industry/chemical plant BASF Schwarzheide near Ruhland.

 

Leipzig!!! And a new ICE 4.

 

Given TSW is mostly a console game it has some technicall restrictions. How is it possible to get some extending to already existing routes?

Just your dreams......

 

It would be cool, but at that point the extension would get bigger than the original route!

This might just be a me thing, but I think it would make more sense to include the ICE4 with a route where it runs in real life. There are no ICE4 trains in Dresden.

You have seen Southeastern Highspeed and LIRR, yes?

 

mkraehe#6051 Oh perfect!
So let's put the ICE T in it, as long as it's there.

 

They are rebuilt and resold without merging old and new one parts like it can be done in TS . And again in unfinished state, they are not complete. Compare Southeastern in TSW and in TS.

 

Peterborough to Doncaster is 90 miles.

 

Do you want us to believe that the vast majority of gamers' PCs are so much better performing than a ninth generation console? If you rely on Youtube where everyone runs with the RTX 4080 and an i11 maybe yes. But the real world is a little bigger and a lot different. Why are we unlikely to see long routes on TSW? Also to avoid taking away the market from TSC (which is also DTG's). Or even due to the increased development times/costs. And finally also because, from what I know, many users like trams more than trains.

 

I am speaking about merging parts of the same route for its extending.

as to 90 miles, in terms of rail ways is not too long. And again speaking about Peterborough to Doncaster in TSW - you do not get feeling of completnees and it will never get merged. In TS, Run 8, Zusi, Simrail you have feelling of huge railway world around you ( but it is for the diffrent theme )

 

If you prefer TSC, I recommend you stick to the TSC forums instead of derailing threads on the TSW one. Thank you.

 

What I'm learning is that DRA has a lot more possibilities for extension than I initially thought. Granted, many of these will likely remain pipe dreams but there is no harm done by looking at the possibilities and giving feedback on what sort of thing we'd like

 

The Elbe Valley is one of quite few suitable locations for a railway across the German/Czech border, so Dresden has *a lot* of lines from other parts of Germany converging on it.

 

Although it seems logical to extend to leipzig or pirna to extend the main line of the route. the elsterwerda triangle really improves all the parts I feel are missing on the route. especially the IC services playable from Dresden Hbf to Neustad I skip because they are so insanely short. I would really like to see the airport branch though.

 

Though I'm sure that this route won't be extended. It already got its rework and ToDv4 treatment, and many really short routes are screaming for extensions.

And personally, I'd like to see Tharandter Rampe being updated to current lighting. I'd play it more often if it hadn't that dull dark ToDv3 lighting.

 

And getting more of a Journey Mode. Was really surprised more 612 elements weren't included, instead we got those tedious all stations 100 minute runs with a lightweight consist, even worse driving from the 766.

 

I'm in the same boat to say that DTG probably won't tend to do it despite all our nice suggestions either as it already got some minor improvements with TSW4.

Also consider this what Matt in another thread said [here]. Does that fit to DRA? I don't know, but I see something like Rapid Transit to be more aimed at with this statement.

However, a big plus for the extension to DRA in comparison to a route like that is that many costumers would have an interest in acquiring an extended DRA, especially with the for years wished airport branch. I would dare to say much more people than others who would be interested in an extension to Rapid Transit.

 

Well, I agree that DRA most likely isn't old enough (yet!), but on the other hand it's known to be very popular with both the players and the team. Can't hurt to get some ideas out there, right?

 

Absolutely not. Connect it to Chemnitz in the best case

 

He asked in another thread what people would like to see in an updated RSN next to TOD4. That makes me think there's some talk inside to either extend that route or he is starting on his own personal project to do so. whatever it is I can't wait to hear more about it, even just teasers. RSN is one of my all time favorite rolutes

 

Shame for RSN. I was exited but thanks for making it clear I got that wrong. I'm interested in what idea will stick to the wall or is favored with the devs for DRA though. as the read shows there are a lot of options there. with a quiet roadmap after all the releases recently one can only guess to the possible next projects planned.

 

more ICE would be nICE

 

It's quite obvious, that the full track should be from Dresden to Leipzig. Currently the Riesa feels like cut in the half, unnatural.

Beside that, local S-Bahn should be expanded - to Flughafen (airport), and (or) especially to Saxony Switzerland!

 

With the lack of freight movements there in that massive yard it really feels weird there. it looks like a very interesting station but ingame idk

 

While I would highly appreciate it, I think it wouldn't make sense for them to create the full tracks to Leipzig either economically viable nor performance wise, because keep in mind you would have two big metropoles with all their AI traffic and playable service movements just in one DLC. Very, very unlikely if you ask me.

Also remember that even in the less performance hungry Train Sim Classic, both, the tracks from Dresden to Riesa and from Riesa to Leipzig are two separate DLCs. If it didn't even work there, it will not work in TSW with 100% assurance.

But as I said another thread, the prolongation to at least Wurzen would solve the problem by A. giving the people more mileage after Riesa, B. avoiding the performance problem with 2 big cities in one DLC. It would also be plausible since Wurzen is also quite a large city, just like Riesa. And it would add the stations Oschatz and Dahlen (Sachsen) in between.

It also has a chemical plant in the south that could be used for some shunting scenarios.

Airport yes, and honestely I think if a DRA extension would ever come and it wouldn't have the airport branch added a lot of people would be unhappy.

For the people that now don't now what "Saxony's Switzerland" is, its a pretty remarkable region southeast of Dresden with very interesting formed basalt mountains.



Now don't getting off topic and coming back to trains.

Now we have the S1 running to Pirna, Bad Schandau and partwise Schöna. My personal opinion is if DTG would fulfill the tracks to there, we would not only have a complete S1 service in the game but also have a mountainous touch to the DLC, which would be very cool since most of the landscape is rather flat.


Bad Schandau

 

I rarely play TSC but I do own those and although they are seperate DLC. you can drive the ICE straight from Dresden Hbf through Riesa to Leipzig no problem. I myself noticed no issues untill I got a zwangsbremsung next to the Leipzig freight yard and never playing TSC I had no clue how to continue after 5 minutes and gave up. so, it is in fact possible to get such a long route in TSC. and although TSW is more needy on power I personally wouldn't mind a few less frames. but yeah PS4 will probably suffer hard on something like that.

 

I really hope for having Unreal Engine 5 in TSW5. I think that with Lumen & Nanite + World Partition system should work fine with a full length track + their Simugraph. Optionally you could turned in raytracing (not pathtracing - that would be too much ).

 

I didn't know that one could "drive through" from one route DLC to another DLC in TSC. That's pretty nice and now a reason more for me to test out TSC at one time.

But despite this being possible, they are still independent DLCs, not a single route like we discuss about it here.

However coming back to Train Sim World, Matt just recently said so many times that mergers like that wouldn't be possible in TSW and its underlying Unreal Engine, which from what I see in the Editor can highly agree too. Performance is already a problem on my small route, not with much trains but with lots of foliage and distance scenery. Now imagine the same to apply to something like the DRA. I imagine it to be struggling with performance a lot already. And yes, Unreal uses level streaming however something at the other end might still has a little impact on performance. Saying level streaming would kind of erase performance problems isn't true.

 

Actually Dresden to Leipzig is a complete entire route in TSC alongside the presumably earlier Dresden to Riesa only. The problem is, the section from Riesa to Leipzig isn’t operationally or scenically that interesting. For the most part it’s a straight shot with a bit of interest at the Leipzig end provided by part of the S-Bahn network.

 

DTG needs to create a new DLC to do a route extension in TSW and also mergers are not possible.

That's really interesting to see.

Yes, I would say so too, it would add more mileage for the services though. I guess this is the major point people wantning an extension further onwards from Riesa. However if mileage really is the only concern, I would prefer an extension to south to the Czech border instead, so that we maybe could have a bit of different scenery of the Swiss Saxony.

 

Thanks for confirming that for me - I haven't played it in TSC, but I've always suspected this just from travelling over it as a passenger.

I still think Elsterwerda is by far the best option for a DRA expansion.

Of course the Elbe Valley is amazing, but if you stuck it onto Dresden-Riesa I fear it would become too long of a route - as nice as the scenery is, how many people really want to do the full 98 minute all-stops S1 run from Schöna to Meißen Triebischtal in the Dosto Cab Car?

 

A lot of people ask for full services since a long time. Yes, it would not be the thing everybody wants and some people prefer shorter runs but it could work with an overhaul of the save game feature I guess. Having multiple slots to save plus also the assurance that the game will reload correctly as it was (which is a big issue), would make something like that possible.

Another new cool feature would be to implement a way to start a timetable service at a station of your choice. In this way, if one prefers, he could start the service at a location where they wouldn't need to run the entire service.

Yes, it would be a challenge, but since Train Sim World is a game which is meant to be real simulator and many people demand correctness of rolling stock in regard to liveries and eras (we had that discussion before), I think it's reasonable to ask for full and real timetable services, not just cutted ones.

And since it really would be doable here, would be nice to at least consider to think about it.