I suppose that I just want to get to the bones of the matter at this point, but my question is... Why are some routes (SEHS and LIRR) worthy of a rebuild with more mileage and rolling stock and others (GWE, TVL and ECW for good examples) are not? Personally I would be happy to pay for newer, better versions of these routes provided that they include more mileage/locations than the originals. The three routes I have mentioned are definitely worthy of enhanced rebuilt versions and I am sure there are several others. Hopefully someone can tell me why SEHS and LIRR were deemed suitable for this treatment. Looking forward to other members perspectives.
They can’t do all at once, they were picked because they could be done. 1 has to come first, another 1 has to come second. GWE is unique it would need a full rebuild and the GWR license isnt allowed to be used.
Interesting question! Though as regards paying again, as I just remarked in another thread, SCS Software are undertaking a major overhaul of ATS and ETS2, looks as if California is being rebuilt from the ground up adding Yosemite and more of the famous Coast Road. And if you already own the DLC, which wasn’t too shabby to begin with, not going to cost a penny. Now I’m not averse to putting something in to fund a rebuild or extension and obviously SCS are happy with their business model vs. development costs. However it is making me start to wonder at this 11th hour whether £24 for LIRR 2 is really good value for money.
Calm down, there has only have been 3 routes so far. Mind you these are popular routes. I doubt no one wants a remastered Rapid Transit route. Also this takes time, they can't just snap their fingers and wala.
I suppose I meant to ask, what are the criteria for the routes rebuilt so far? This might help ascertain which routes, if any, could also one day potentially get such treatment.
seen as I’m not privy to the exact criteria DTG uses, I can’t say for certain it’s really early days for route upgrades, so it shouldn’t be expected many have them, popular also means where more people benefit from such upgrades aswell not just where the money lies.
officially they are all probably considered open to them, with the TSW1+2 ones given higher focus. What will get done isn’t known as much as what routes will come in the future.
At a guess I would say the criteria is something like this… Extremely popular route A lot of community requests Can be achieved Will sell lots and lots of copies (see point 1) Timetable not being busy enough and that has been bugging Matt for years
Matt explained this in one of the streams.... (not his words exactly for clarification) In an ideal world all routes would get an upgrade to TOD4, but it's a lengthy process which involves accessing and potentially making adjustments to every single light source in the route. Also at the same time you would probably want to do a sweep through with more clutter and fresher scenery. Then comes the dilemma, how do you make it financially viable? if you release an updated route for free you may gather some new buyers for the route plus increase retention and mood within the current community, but effectively you've taken resource away from a small team. If you want to sell it, you have to make clear additions and improvements that make it desirable. GWE as an example also has the complexity of licensing not being available. Personally I would like to see some of the earlier German routes get the same treatment.
Some of these upgrades are passion projects in a developers own free time which means they can pick and choose what they like. Majority of the time, it's not an official project
I doubt that a major upgrade like LIRR2 could be accomplished by a single person encamped in an attic late at night following his or her dream. A feature here and there maybe. But a full makeover of a route would need to be a company project with all necessary hands on deck. So you're unlikely to see something like SEHS2 or LIRR2 more than occasionally, especially when there are licensing issues to complicate matters.
It’s why I think the rumoured GWE remaster will only be a timetable rework rather than a full overhaul/extension of the route. E: Similar to the WSR remaster
Never stated, nor do I think it will be. It could be a corporate shuffle thing like Virgin. But I have a suspicion it had to do with the forbidden FGW blue livery being left in the code, where modders could unlock it.
I swear they did at one point say that in one of the updates they were going to remove it. Of course they never did, and now you can even spawn in the FGW 166 with Free Roam on consoles (which weirdly has the TSW2020 hud)
I don't think so. It doesn't need a mod, you can spawn it in Freeroam. DTG could have just removed it from the files, but they didn't. So that speaks against your suspicion. DTG wouldn't be that careless unless it just doesn't matter. These things are taken very seriously - UP demanded the weathered AC4400 to be removed from CaneCreek, and so they did. If a modder can put it back in (like the GP38 YN2 livery), it's their business and I don't think DTG will be held accountable for what people do with their game.
More likely someone high up on the Ops or Commercial side at GWR simply decided associating their company with a train simulation product was not a good idea. A bit like Union Pacific did a few years ago before doing a 180. They simply saw something like a train game as irrelevant to their business paradigm, even though with correct implementation it could actually represent good PR.
Yes. It could well be they saw TSW as being not a good representation. For a long time, the HST wipers didn't work, which shines a very bad light on the company. And the broken Paddington and Reading station textures are adding to GWE being a sloppy representation of their line - if it were my TOC, I'd have the license withdrawn immediately. Do it properly or leave it - don't associate our name with this game in the future. License contract has been fulfilled but not prolonged.
Should there not be an operators in tsw then? Using that argument, there should be zero dlc in tsw because they have bugs or something missing?
There is bugs and sloppiness, laziness, indifference in assuring the quality the licensor requires .... and not fixing those obvious faults when the players report them.
Pretty sure I have said it yes. Nope. Nope. Nope. Not sure why you all have to jump on the doom wagon but then that is kinda what these forums are all about I guess. The reality? All licenses have an end date and as the license hit the end date they decided not to renew as there were a lot of internal changes going on at the time with a view to renewing it later, and then it just hasn't been possible since. There's never been any negativity expressed and in fact we worked well together when we were working on GWE. If new management come along and don't see the value of it (and many rail operators do not) then you're back to the bottom of the pile. The only complaints that I'm aware we have ever received from licensors are "this is too accurate", and "this is too detailed". Probably won't believe that, but, there it is. It takes time to do these things. WSR was a personal project of Liam and Rhys - they picked it because they liked the route. I picked Clinchfield because I like the route. Neither necessarily because of sound business reasons, just, really like it and want to see it better. LIRR was because it was a popular route and given we wanted to do other things to the route we felt it made sense to roll in as much as possible. That one was because of sound business reasons. There are others, and they may or may not make logical sense for those reasons Matt.
Well to be fair that's due to DTG's failure to communicate. Just like the weathered AC4400, it was deliberately left to speculation why it was suddenly gone. Or the GP38 YN2, modded back in by KitKat and me (by changing 5 or so references in the RVV). Bug or not? You could have just said "UP/CSX did not want this and we had to remove it." But you are leaving many of us in the dark for some reasons, so speculation is bound to happen (and don't say you don't enjoy the speculations ). I feel it often takes a bit of those speculations to provoke some official answers. See it as a sign of the community's commitment to your product. Pete
The blue HST is gone. That I think though had to do with the LD upgrade, which basically involved rebuilding the 43's 3D model
?, Granted you cant pick it from the timetable but the loco is still in game via the Formation Designer, so maybe another bug? California was a base map DLC, same as Nevada and Arizona (Arizona was a free DLC) So anyone who owns ATS owns these states, and SCS is rebuilding them to get them up to the standards of their newer states. Also worth noting that I see very few errors in SCS's maps with scenery and such, very few misplaced objects, and they usually respond to bugs very well. If something does go wrong and someone points it out, they fix it. Also the massive amount of POI's they include with each state and DLC. Just gorgeous, yeah their maps arn't 1:1 scale, and I do have issues with 1 part of the Phase III Cali rebuild, but SCS does a pretty damn good job at it. Will be fun to compare LA and SoCal to DTG's maps when Phase 4 comes out.
The RVD is still there, but no "Official" FRM formation anymore I guess. It's like as if in TSC the loco.bin is there but no PreLoad. That was probably the easiest way to do it. But let's not motivate them to completely remove it
Not just that, the terrible paint, the incorrect side sill markings and cab marking (Both from the CSX AC44) incorrect run numbers series (Covers incorrect models) etc....
Not a good side by side comparison, putting a weathered loco in dim diffuse lighting conditions next to a clean one in bright sunlight Colour is relative. Btw CaneCreek uses over saturation boost via its PostProcessVolume. Colours get a 110% boost on that route.
It isnt the color, look at how far the yellow goes down on the cab vs the IRL unit, it stops at the side sill striping. Below that is supposed to be UP Harbor Mist grey.
To be honest I don't think it matters to most players (unfortunately). The real deal is Run 8 anyway, even with lower res texturing.
Hm as far as I got it in all the years/the more popular a track is, the higher the probability that it will get an upgrade, I say so 100 players say as an example the Dresden Riesa route is the best there is, thus fixed and revised DTG the route and in the end also get more profit out (That's my personal opinion about it. I have no idea if that's really true. I don't work for DTG)
ATS is by far the best trucking experience now, ETS2 has too many poor quality areas, the original UK map being the worst. Every now and then I look at the SCS blog, but there is no project it seems to update it. Promods is better but usually takes an eternity to catch up with the latest game version, so I stick with ATS. Now that I have 100% ATS achievements though I do find there’s nothing really left to inspire me to play until the next US state DLC comes out with a bunch of new achievements.
Same as my experience. ETS2 has been left behind, many countries still use the mechanic from the older games of fictional tunnels to separate areas within countries. ProMods is great but became a case of the tail wagging the dog each time SCS made a change it got to the point where I CBA to keep catching up. ATS also seemed to fare better from their FMod sound update, which without mods left most of the ETS2 trucks sounding horrible whereas the US trucks seemed to do better.
Yes, I think Dovetail has a duty at this point to rebuild or smarten up routes, but we also have to remember that although we buy a new TSW game every year the DLC content is years old, you are getting to use old content you bought in a modern game, you have to take your hat off to Dovetail for making this possible, they had a dedicated team to rebuild old routes, but they got assigned to build new DLCs as it is down to money I would suspect, maybe blame Focus? GWE is a route is a popular route because of what it offers and quality, Dovetail could do a smarten up of this route, graphic, timetable, NPCs etc. Dovetail could modernize it, but then you lose what the route is about, that moment in time captured and I think Dovetail need to renew the license to make new stuff. Trans pennine is a "LOVE or get off the pot" DLC, this route is the worst in terms of needing an update, the grapics are poor, the NPCs are rare, they never get in the trains and as a result you spend your days driving empty carrages, the stations are dead even the large ones, the game seems broken.
If DTG backdated GWE to BR days and extended it to say, Oxford, no licence would be required, and it would be an extremely popular choice with diesel traction enthusiasts. It could the basis for a whole suite of new loco/DMU DLCs.
Not wanting to bring politics into the forum, but in all likelihood the next UK government is going to be the one that's planning to re-nationalise the passenger railways, and as DTG already have a lot of licences with UK government I'm guessing that will make it easier to get all the required licences, including GWR. If nationalisation does happen I hope they maintain the regional identities, First Great Western becoming GWR was a great move and we now have the return of the LNER, who doesn't want to see a modern take on the LMS liveries on the WCML.
Don’t count on it. 13 years of Labour from 1997 to 2010 and not a single utility or organisation privatised by the Tories got renationalised. I am no Tory but we’ve had a Labour controlled council in Swindon for a year now, the roads, cycle and footpaths are in a state of decay and they only just got round to cutting the grass verges. Which is probably enough politics for this thread!
Back on the original topic, if DTG started upgrading all the old routes, you'd get half the forum moaning that new stuff wasn't being released, it's a cash grab etc. To my mind, with more 3rd parties coming on board, I think you could justify re-releasing 2 upgrade routes per year. TOD 4 and extensions. Others can pick up loco DLC whilst you have Skyhook, JT etc producing new routes. People would need to understand though, that the revised/extended routes will cost money. Half way house is wholly acceptable IMO with new and revised going side by side.
There is a place for both new and old. Without over labouring the SCS equivalent, they are updating existing states for ATS while continuing to work on new ones. The updates are seen as a loss leader because they foster goodwill and amity with the customer base who then spend more money on the product. As I just did, adding Montana, Texas, Kansas and Oklahoma in one fell swoop yesterday. Mainly because I came over all supportive after reading what they are doing for the core in 1.50 and the rebuild of California. Versus spending £24 on what seems to be a less than stellar rebuild of LIRR.
Also all new trucks for ATS are free, not paid. Only DLC's are states, customization, and specific loads.
Nice one, Nebraska is also imminent. I have been running the 1.50 beta and what a difference TAA makes to the game (hoping they will drop in DLSS at some point).
They're remastering the Continental base map (Germany and it's neighbours) at the moment. I imagine when that's done it'll be Britain's time.
Around 1992 would work because this was the year that the Thames Turbo was introduced but this would require a Valenta HST to go alongside. The freight could be done by either 47 or 60 locomotives as these were the most frequent to be seen.
