Us Vs Uk Freight Locomotive Size.

Saw this video posted in the TSC discord, but gonna share it here, showing a Freightliner Class 70 (GE Powerhaul) running with 2 UP AC44's, and a B40-8W. Showing the visual differences between the 3 US locos vs the Class 70.

 

That's having a Victorian infrastructure for you!!

 

That's one of the reasons why HO is 1:87 and OO is 1:76 scale

 

And also because 1:76 is not actually realistic the stock is too big for the track

 

aka European locos looking nice and smooth and US locos not giving a single fck in the universe about anything related to nice design

 

lol nope, we are very much factor over form. Crew safety and comfort trumps all, in that order. Any styling after that is a bonus.

 

the liveries/color schemes are extremely cool tho... I mean, imagine Stadler EuroDual 9000 with the color scheme of BNSF from Cajon Pass, damn it would look nice

 

You see it a little bit with the Genesee & Wyoming's US railroads and Freightliner, and in the past EWS and Wisconsin Central.

 

have you see the image of a Big Boy sitting next to Flying Scotsman when she toured the US? It dwarfs flying scotsman.



Image Copyright - Unknown

 

The size difference is ridiculous… the first time I visited the US it was quite insane at first how tall were locomotives.

 

I don't cease to be amazed about how they put those monsters onto the very same standard gauge. But yeah, it works.

 

It truly is insane how colossal American locomotives can be

 

Don't know why but I can picture the two engines talking to one another.

 

"When I grow up, I want to be just like you, Dad."

 

My general impression of American railroads is that they don't give two ****s about crew safety or comfort...

 

The wide cabs are literally designed for safety in event of a collision.
The isolated cabs are designed for reduced sounds inside the cab.

 

And your point is?

 

Counterdicted your point about safety and comfort.

BNSF wont even allow Non-ISO cab SD70ACe's to lead trains.

 

The wide cab designs are literally called "safety cabs". The Federal Railroad Administration has some of the strictest rules and regulations in the world for locomotive design. The latest series of cab control cars are being built with full locomotive-style front ends to protect crews. Locomotives are built with anti-climbers and crumple zones so if a collision does occur, the engineer isn't eating a tank car or stranded automobile for their last meal. Seats are ergonomic and well-padded, cabs feature toilets, soundproofing, and HVAC.

While there have been some issues in the recent news with poor track quality causing derailments, as well as disputes with the unions, the railroads have nothing to gain by putting their crews at risk and working in conditions that could cause them to lose focus. Crews are paid extremely well and represent a massive investment by the railroad into a very niche set of skills requiring years of training and experience.

 

There are plenty of examples that counterdict your claim that crew safety and comfort trumps all!

And all those regulations don't result in safer locomotives (to the point where the FRA has changed regulations to accept European designs because it makes no difference), not to mention locomotive design is only a small part of overall safety. American rail workers get killed at six times the rate of British ones.

Oh yes they do!

 

Do you just like to argue or something? Valid reasons have been given, just accept that.

Which are?

How? By losing money? By getting a poor reputation? No railroad would want any of those.

 

Just look at the Norfolk Southern FRA safety culture report for one, and that frankly treats it with kid gloves. Look at how US rail workers talk on social media and you certainly won't come away with an impression that they think their employer cares about their safety!

Well for starters, safety procedures tend to either slow the job down or cost money to fit technological solutions...

 

I very much doubt that applies to every single US railroad.

Again, doubt that speaks for the majority. Many would probably spend the time on a safe work environment.

 

From everything I've heard it certainly applies to all the Class Is.

There's a reason why "Uphill slow, downhill fast, profits first and safety last" is such a commonly quoted rhyme...

 

I hate to break it to you, but according to official data, the UK sees more rail related injuries and death than the US.

The latest data for each is from the year 2022, but the figures show the UK in the lead.

From the National Safety Council, the figures from the US


And the Office of Rail & Road's figures for the UK


Now since you only seem to want to quote a vocal minority from Facebook and news outlets that have a habit of blowing stories out of proportion for views/clicks, I know this isn't going to satisfy you or your argumentative replies. However, these figures are government recorded facts. Don't you think if things were as bad as you're claiming to be, those US figures would skyrocket? Especially since the US has many times more the population, land mass, and track mileage?

 

Big Boy talking to Flying Scotsman be like -

 

Your own sources prove that while over the past twenty years the UK has never had a year with more than eight rail worker deaths (with most years seeing less than five deaths), the US has never had a year with less than nine rail worker deaths, and that was only once - most years saw ten or more deaths. If you actually look at the figures for the number of people employed by both countries' rail industry it is clear that rail worker deaths are higher per worker in the US.
And r.e. your claims on a "vocal minority", do you actually work in the industry?

 

Do you?

 

Exactly, do you? Or are we just an armchair critic?

 

I'll take that as a "no, but I claim authority on the subject anyway despite dismissing people with actual sources".

 

R3DWolf91 gave you valid, official sources which you immediately dismissed, so don't really know where you're going with this.

 

Eh, I'm over it. Some people just like to make noise simply for the sake of hearing themselves. If that's how they would like to carry on then that's their prerogative; everyone's entitled to their opinions.

 

I showed that the sources disprove his own claim.

 

Am I missing something here? Valid, official and reputable sources were given, yet they're false because you've "disproved them"?

 

I clearly explained how the sources support my claim instead of his.

 

date for fra accepting eu standards was 2018

 

A bonus is that train engineers in the U.S. aren't required to wear uniforms. Subway/tram yes, but not for any commuter or freight railroad. It's so cool seeing them climb the locomotive ladder to their cab in such casual wear or seeing them at the controls with a biker jacket and hat backwards.

I believe boots are required for most railroads though.

 

Really? I get it for the freight but am surprised for passenger: we have to wear shirt and tie and owt!

 

At least for Amtrak, the engineer's are probably not in the public's face as much as the rest of the crew.

 

Amtrak not so much, but the commuter railroads usually have some form of dress code.

At a minimum, boots and safety glasses are required across the board.

 

That is the same here with us though.

Ah, right interesting. Do the glasses have to be worn at all times, or just when you are round depots or trackside?

 

Off topic but, it's a Monday morning for me here, & looking at this pic. while sitting in a boring teams call makes me feel so happy for this guy

 

So I looked through the FRA's public documentation and it looks like the safety glasses rule are on a railroad by railroad basis. I tried to find Amtrak's info but the only rulebook I could find was for public facing crews. I know an Amtrak engineer that works out of Albany-Rensselaer, I'll ask him later today and report back.

That said, most of the Amtrak and Metro-North engineers I've seen are wearing their safety glasses while in-cab.

 

So it all boils down (again) to Brits saying "our stuff is prettier" which goes for everything from cars to planes to trains. Americans say "nope, ours is sexier." It's entirely unprovable either way, but both sides walk away feeling smug about themselves.
It's all just part of the quarreling of cross-Atlantic cousins.

 

No quarrel, I think most of the BR-era diesels and 90% of the steam are prettier than what we were fielding here. We had some hits during the art deco period, but nothing like you guys had.

Once we moved away from cowl-body locomotives and into the standard EMD and GE road switcher and wide/safety cab designs we just fielded boxes of various shapes with really only paint schemes to set them apart.

That said, aside from a few examples, I do think most of your current-gen EMU's and DMU's all kind of blur together (we are equally guilty of this).

While I don't find modern equipment as interesting (on both sides of the pond), I do understand that standardized fleets equates to parts and shop commonality, and crew familiarization, and (theoretically) increases railroad/way efficiency.

 

Sorry mate, completely forgot about this. I do find this very interesting, though I mean what is there in the cab which would warrant glasses, certainly in my years in cabs here there has never been a time where I have thought they should be required whilst rattling along. Saying that in the rare case of the window being shattered they would be beneficial.

 

Well it can't be argued with really and I think the general consensus in a thread a few months ago was that British trains were much prettier and better looking, with American trains being bigger! As the Mrs said when we first got together she don't care how big it is as long as it's pretty, which made me feel a lot better about the singular flower I got her on her birthday!

 

I haven't heard back from my contact, but doing some more research on my own it seems like dust and other small metallic debris appear to be the logic behind the mandate. I'm not quite sure why, seeing as most crews in the cab keep sealed up, but who knows. Ever since mechanics class in high school and through my fifteen years of working around farm and construction equipment, I've had one statement consistently drilled into my brain... "Blindness is forever!"... translated: If there's an excuse to wear eye protection, you probably should be wearing it.

 

That's true with most things actually. Look at how all the cars look the same, compared to the wild designs up into the 1970s. I don't think the British stuff is any "prettier," Sticking to the victorian-era tunnel sizes just "squeezed" all the diesel British stuff into the same long, blocky cylinder shapes. Trains haven't been "beautiful" since the steam era.

Planes too come to think of it...all the same "tube with wings" there too.

Modern "efficiency" ;-)

I agree that DMU and EMU seem a dime a dozen though. I can't really tell them apart. Except the outliers like the 628 (which looks like a Winnebago)

 

To me those tiny prison cell windshields on many of the UK emus are in themselves a safety hazard. Imagine driving a bus or a car with such a restricted view of the road and your surroundings.