Distant speed board Geschwindigkeitsvoranzeiger warned of 120kmh so I complied and still got hit with a Zwangsbremsung. Is this a bug or could I have missed something? Appreciate the help.
Your display says "2000 Hz influence" - you went too fast through a GPA (speed check section - the three magnets). There's GPAs in dangerous sections where the speed to be supervised is too high for a 1000 Hz influence. There's also GPAs on signals displaying speed limit of 80 - in this case there's a 1000 Hz magnet active for a short while after passing the first contact, which means PZB will only trigger if you're too fast. (That's why passing these at 80 already you will NOT get a 1000 Hz influence.) I think you must be at 100 km/h there from memory. IRL the EBuLa shows you. But I think you get warned by a "Hl4" signal - a blinking green light which means "reduce speed to 100". Checking the route, DTG has done the signalling correctly. Although there's a speed indicator saying 13, the blinking green light overrides this and tells you to reduce speed to 100, according to the Hl Signal system. Same happens in this video - this is the actual signal you have not interpreted correctly. Blinking green. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hl-Signalsystem
Thank you! Although I am aware a flashing green indicates an upcoming speed drop, I only got the blinking green after I went over the speed magnets (I don't recall passing one before getting a brake application). Without either prior route knowledge or a functioning EBuLa, as you mentioned, there's really no way to know that I should be at 100kmh after passing that board. Even so, this is very valuable information and I appreciate it! EDIT: just reviewed the video and sure enough the distant speed indicator was attached to a flashing green. Whoops .
More specifically: You cross block signal showing diverting 130 km/h, you are in Ks signalling system, where flashing green means "Expect speed reduction to speed shown by display" with no specific value by default, it is always accompanied with an explicit number. You enter section with Hl signalling system, where flashing green means "Expect speed reduction to 100 km/h" explicitly. You pass distant signal showing "Expect 100 km/h" with mounted advanced speedboard "Expect 120 km/h", but these are two separate signals, not part of a single aspect as in Ks signalling. So, the lower value is applied! As you are approaching the main signal showing "Speed 100 km/h (Expect 60 km/h)", you cross the GPA speed check. It is verifying if you are slowing down as ordered, usually 15 km/h over the oncoming speed limit. As you go over 115 km/h, it sends a 2000 Hz impulse to PZB, equivalent to passing a red signal, which triggers emergency brake immediately. I think this place catches most people who do not know german signalling in detail, as the flashing green (accompanied by speedboard) has two different meanings in two different signalling systems. Speedboards with black text on orange or white background are for line speed, independent of signals. Inverse, orange or white text on black background on the other hand is for signal speed and counts as part of the aspect shown.
I had that happen a couple times driving freight in the vectron there. I took it that flashing green means 100 so I slowed down slowly but not enough. I since learned of GPA magnets. something not a lot of people know of and the cause of a few unsuspecting Zwangsbremsung
There are different meanings of green flashing signals: - The HI signals only came from the former German Reichsbahn (GDR times) and are installed on the Dresden-Riesa route. A flashing green light means: Reduce speed to 100 km/h. - Signals from the KS signaling system (combination signals): Only a flashing green light is displayed when a speed warning is displayed. In this case you do not have to reduce to 100 km/h, but to the indicated speed. The basic rule is: speed reports below 100 km/h must be confirmed with the vigilance button. However, the 1000 Hz magnet is usually only active at a speed of 80 km/h.
It sounds complicated that Germany has three different signalling systems, but each of them is very "simple" in its own way: H/v system of Western Germany: It's just a copy of mechanical semaphore aspects used everywhere across Europe, just slapped onto a black board. Some evolutionary changes on top as modern railway needed more than just "go" and "slow". Hl system of Eastern Germany: While complicated to memorize, it's OSShD-compatible system, so if you know any other soviet bloc signalling system (like polish from Simrail), you already know it all. Ks system of unified Germany: It's literally traffic lights. Red, yellow, green. If there is a speed change, it's directly and openly written there.
plus the unique Sk system on Augsburg - Donauwörth (featured in Zusi 3). Still there's nothing more beautiful than the old H/v Semaphores.
Sk is just a very early prototype of Ks, mounted into traditional H/v boards (except for the round distant signals). Sv of Hamburg S-Bahn is something different for one though. And it's present in Hamburg - Lübeck in TSW
As one (German) commentator put it, "PZB is very simple in theory. If it was simple in practice it wouldn't be German."
It seems more complicated when you are playing it in a sim that itself has bugs and doesn't always represent it correctly. This ends in confusion more than learning. I've learnt these in Loksim3D, a nice freeware sim that was started on MS-DOS and is still maintained and developed, which aims to correctly simulate safety systems, and then on Zusi.
My biggest issue with PZB is that (in violation of systems engineering best practices), it increases stress and distractions at precisely the time you want the driver focused on one thing, slowing the train down. (It doesn't help that Sifa doesn't interlock with the driving controls and invariably goes off when PZB has you doing something complicated) -------------------------- One thing that bothers me about Ks signals: combined signals i.e. Haupt- and Vor- on one post. In Hv the two heads are quite distinct, but with Ks I'm often desperately scanning the trackside for a Vorsignal that never comes, because it was incorporated in the last Haupt.
I don't see where the stress and distractions come in. You acknowledge it and brake down to the necessary speed.
It's happening automatically once you know the system, I don't see stress. You see a Vr1 or Vr2 in the distance, start reducing your speed. Later on, you know your route and your brake curves. And a combined signal reveals itself via a yellow triangle on the mast. So if you see a X or the yellow triangle, the signal can display a distant aspect and is protected by a 1000 Hz magnet. PZB doesn't mind if you confirm each signal (you should actually do that according to guidelines). The wrong way to learn is thinking about magnets, just confirm each signal. If nothing happens, you will learn why that is eventually. Much better than looking for magnets. Train Simulator "SignalTeam" Ks signals
Once I fully understood the operating procedures, I never really felt any stress about braking curves anymore, except when you get Vr 0 at 160 km/h. But then SOP requires you to use schnellbremsung anyways and then you are just a passenger. Once you realize that trains are actually allowed much lower speeds than what it looks like from the simulator, it will be easy to follow the speed curves. Shaving 20 km/h down from 85-90 within half a minute is easy task even for heavy freight, but if you are trying to brake down from 120, you will of course have hard time. Masts are not important for everyday operation, they only serve as fallback, you do not need to pay attention to them really. You see the aspect from much farther distance and just react to that - if it's green you can basically ignore it, if you see it showing anything else, go with the power to zero so you are ready to take action, and you will have whole braking distance to do so. Especially with Ks (with exception of the new ones from 2020+), the position of the green light actually encodes if it's also a distant signal or not; similarly as position of green light on H/v encoded the role of the signal (entry/exit/block). To anyone who would like to understand the german signalling better, I can highly recommend to just build some network in Transport Fever 2 using the signal mods from Modwerkstatt, and you will quickly understand which signal needs to go where. And whatmore, as those mods support all the complicated nonsense that builds upon the otherwise very simple H/v, you will also get more understanding for those, as you will run into the same problems that DB needed to solve somehow.
No, the mainline is equipped with Ks signals, with the Ks block signal at km 105,4 signalling with speed 130 km/h, if you run to Coswig. You only enter the Hl signalling afterwards. You need to read the whole post.
You're correct. I assumed your post started from the beginning of the video (already on the Hl line). My apologies. Cheers
A French joke has two énarques* chatting: "Your idea may be perfectly fine in practice, but it could never work in theory." * graduates of the École Nationale d'Administration, who fill many of the top jobs in politics and the civil service (and business)
