I asked on another thread why can't I drive a steam engine in Free Roam, when I select the destination it is greayed out? Seen lots pf posts ppl saying they don't want or are not interested in steam, well just as a comparison look at flight sim, they have early aircraft right up the the big jets plus military as well. So they cater for all types of player, so why not the same for rail, if you don't like or want steam don't buy or use it, same with any type of engine.
I don't really see people saying they don't want steam, its mainly wanting the physics fixed and stuff like manual firing added (both of which were promised and never delivered).
I wasn't too bothered with steam but with TSW4 came a loco to try in the training centre/spawn on foot, presumably DTG thought it might drum up some business. I took the tutorials and occasionally spawn it into a timetable for a go. I'm no expert so I don't know what this poor physics thing is, and probably don't wish to either as sometimes ignorance is bliss! You open it up, it goes choff, choff, choff, to varying degrees and the brakes seem ok too; that works for me Spawn it into WSR for a trundle up the line on a sunny day, marvellous I don't think I'll buy any, although when the 104 comes to PFR I may get that and the steam with it too I suppose.
It's a bit sad that the premier SP train simulator seems almost solely focused on modern EMU's/DMU's. I've just come back from a fabulous weekend at the Bluebell Railway Steam Gala and boy those things are impressive, the sight, sound and smell of them in action. DTG can't replicate the smell obviously but to bring more of these beasts to the game would have been nice. Sadly it's not just about the technical side but sales too, apparently the majority of gamers want modern EMU's above all else which I find strange. There is a wonderful heritage out there dating back many decades and I just don't understand why it's not more popular with TSW players, is it kids playing on consoles maybe? I'm sure the pc crowd would be more open to heritage stuff. I know that whenever I attend steam and diesel gala's the events are chockablock with enthusiasts, I've taken to telling as many as I can about this great game in the hope that one day us enthusiasts of everything rail with finally outnumber the kids only interested in driving one handled EMU's and whose only goal in life appears to be to go fast they eventually disappear up their own exhaust pipe!
I think I have to agree with what other people have said that DTG probably should have started steam with a smaller scale project. Small engine and a limited selection of wagons and coaches. I'd actually go further than that and say steam would've started out much stronger if it had debuted in TSW4 with Scotsman. That way they're really only dealing with getting that loco correct, and with free mode Scotsman is the most acceptable engine to not have a home route of its own and just be taken on journeys across the game. I take some comfort that 3rd parties have apparently expressed some initial interest in looking at steam so I definitely don't think we've seen the last of it.
I hope you are right. With the announcement of a 'expert level DB101' for Electric fans it does open the door to a 'expert level steam train'. Although 'expert' by DTG's standards is having control over anything more than the regulator, brakes and whistle.
I have a feeling that an 'expert level' steam loco would not get anywhere near the run time more modern trains get, not to mention the cost resulting from the man-hours need to develop it. The learning curve is way too steep for the short-attention span crowd we so often get here - the whining would be off the chart (and do not forget driving a steam loco was a 2 man job - multiuser anyone?). DTG Matt recently addressed the dichotomy between forum begging for legacy trains/locos and the actual play time in the statistics, where by far the vast majority of user run time is on modern trains. Hence the concentration on more recent eras. Those wanting steam will get at least some satisfaction from using TSC - even some of the default steam is fun and there are quite a few developers of realistic UK steam - and if your preference is the US, then take a look at Smokebox products. If your liking is realistic North American diesel, go for something like Canadian Mountain Passes and the Searchlight Simulation AC4400-CW, but even there, do not expect full realism - who is going to spend 30 minutes or more setting up and starting a Geep - or waiting the same time for the brakes to come off on a 6000 ton freight? Having said all that - can we please have a 9F Evening Star - after all, there should be no problem with specs - she is in the National Collection
If DTG aren't going to bother finishing steam because it "doesn't sell well" - which they've never outright stated - then they should issue an apology and refunds to those who bought steam DLC under the impression it would be finished.
You do realise that there are Pro Range TSC steam locos which give a good idea of what an "expert level" steam loco in TSW would look like?
Even just managing to drive them is expert enough. Even though the physics aren't what they should be, I still haven't been able to handle the Jubilee, or the 8F.
Oh that’s music to my ears. No better way to enjoy a good meal, something l have done many times. Would love to see a Tank Engine, either a Prairie, Pannier or Coal tank or all. Also a Manor, Hall and Castle, one of these or all please DTG.
I could not agree more. The game has become dull and formulaic. EMU after EMU. I hardly use it anymore.
Irony is, on their Facebook feed for TSW today, DTG posed the question as to what users' preferred era in railway history. Sure I wasn't the only one to point out that under current management, it seems anything pre 2010 is off the menu and anything steam - forget it. Obviously whoever is dreaming up these items for FB is either out of touch with the current DTG teamthink, or didn't bother to ask!
Unfortunately, the ongoing X/Twitter poll shows a lack of enthusiasm for steam, but hopefully some thought is back on the subject again? maybe? please?
I don't mind modern but do something interesting! Let's have a 67 or 68. Or a 90 or 91. Or all of them. Yes, they do steam badly, but the modern content is limited and mediocre too.
I'm wondering why it even is a poll. are they polling the interests of the players? if so there's a big gap between steam and modern. and if steam is indefinetely ended because it's too difficult for DTG. why is it even a question or option, I sincerely doubt they have that bad communication that if they decide to end steam their twitter manager posts something like this. same for the instagram post promoting "if you could go back in history what would you want?" with a big photo of the flying scotsman. interesting to say the least.
I do wonder if they're trying to gauge whether or not they should relook at steam, fix the broken physics etc. The interest seems to be there still.
I think with no preservation crew it's smarter to look at the big list of smaller bugs that need fixing instead of something complicated like letting a computer understand steam. I'd love to see some more steam. especially something that isn't british. but I think at this time it's not something DTG would want to do
This is a very misleading poll as when I first glanced over it my mind saw TSW and I thought it were which is better in TSW. Surely I am not the only one who thought this and so if people are basing it off which is better in TSW there is no surprise modern is winning, due to steams appalling state in the game. I also notice there being no option for the BR Diesel era (or whatever general term would cover this - retro diesel perhaps?).
I think I'll stop reading this thread in case I fall into a deep depression. If steam and diesel are dead we all know what's coming. It looks like DTG will confine itself to the simple A-B one-handled electric commuter routes and leave 3rd parties to pick up the loose ball for the more complicated steam and diesel projects. That's a very, very long term roadmap. Some of us aren't getting any younger.
I think we will know for sure when they announce the next UK route. If it's another Goblin style stop/start one handle fest then TSW will be hitting the rocks as per much future investment from myself. As I just remarked down in the Off Topic forum, I actually got really disillusioned after rebuying LIRR 2.0 (wished I hadn't), so haven't bothered much at all with TSW the last few evenings. Either Run 8, which okay may not have steam but it does have very noisy diesels and emergent endless gameplay and the truck sims particularly since both ATS and ETS2 just got a major graphical update that looks much better than default murky or blown out over bright TSW.
With regards to the 'selling well' aspect of steam locomotive era routes, obviously DTG has the ultimate data but I would have thought that the existence of the likes of Railroader and Railroads Online, as well as the excitement around Century of Steam would indicate that there is a market for steam, if it's done in the right way. Obviously Railroader and Railroads Online are not quite up to the fidelity of the more indepth TSC steam locomotives, but they're probably on a level with the early TSC Black 5 / 7F, I couldn't speak for SoS or PF as I was waiting for the steam simulation and manual firing part of it to be fixed before getting it, but both sims, such as they are, seem to have made a good impression at first, although I hear RO has had its share of problems, but nevertheless it seems to hold triple digit figures of players per month, which while TSW has about two to three times more (average 600-700 to ROs 100-200, and Railroaders 400-300) it still shows a sim that's predominantly steam related is holding its own.
There are plenty of steam engines in TSC and still many being built. There are industrial tank engines, 19th century steam engines, BR standards and much in between. Maybe the TSC audience is different. Also a poll on Twitter/X might only be mostly be reaching a certain demographic, I don't use it as I think it is an awful social media platform, just seems very toxic no matter what the subject.
Agree. Facebook is almost as bad particularly large groups for organisations etc. which seem to attract spammers who want to trick you into being their “friend” or inveigle personal details and emails off you, with neither the admins or FB themselves doing much about it.
I never asked you to be my friend, i never wanted you to be my friend, i didn't even look in your direction on FB Vernon LOL Although i must add that i cannot believe how cute your pussie is. Gets me everytime when i peruse your posts.
I'm in the fortunate position of never having had any social media accounts nor have I ever posted on one ( unless you count this forum as social media ). Doesn't seem to have mattered much. I've managed to communicate with friends and family using email, snail mail, telephone and, amazingly, I've actually spoken face to face with people. I believe my life is less stressful and complicated without social media which, as Lady Gaga once said, is the toilet of the internet.
Anyway, getting back to the " steam " question, I think DTG's dilemma is two fold. One problem is they don't currently seem to have either the technical skill set and/or the moxie to successfully make steam engines in TSW/UE4. Secondly it seems that a sizable plurality, if not a clear majority, of their player base wants to drive simple machines as fast as possible in order to complete as many services in the shortest time in pursuit of some desired " achievement " or " mastery, " whatever that is. You can't do that with steam or diesel locos. So there's really only one direction they can go. And even if a third party were to take up the task of building steam or even diesel engines, it's going to be a very long time, if ever, before those efforts bear fruit. I will say that DTG's skill and ability to build commuter routes and electric trains to run on them is excellent, second to none. If you like them, the future is bright. For the rest of us, not so much.
Friends of mine who do not have TSW see the photos I post and remark how good everything looks. If I post something from SOS or Peak Forest, they say "Oh they have old steam trains too - cool" These are people who have zero sophistication when it comes to train simulation but still see the value of vintage railroading. But I suppose the developer is moving with the times - post-creative, post-romantic, post-80%-20%.
You mean like the BR 111? Modern trains, especially in the UK, are trains which can be accessed and taken for survey runs. Can't do that with museum trains, and not really on heritage RR either. That's not to say it can't be done, obviously it has been, but it's harder. Then add the amount of research needed for a vintage route. On top of this, the licensor gets a say also- they view this as advertising and want the game to promote their latest and greatest, not whatever rusty old BR veteran they may keep as reserve traction. Honestly I'm kind of amazed Scotrail allowed the class 314 rather than insisting on 380s. (Still, that doesn't justify having ZERO modern UK freight traction besides the (excellent but overrepresented) 66.)
Access to the prototype has not held back steam traction in TSC along with getting the sounds to come over correctly at higher speeds. No, we have fallen victim to the "can't do", school of thinking that seems to be holding back any innovation with TSW.
I'm talking about your attitude to the "player base wants to drive simple machines as fast as possible in order to complete as many services in the shortest time in pursuit of some desired " achievement " or " mastery, " whatever that is.".
Notice that I said a " plurality " of the player base. If you find that description overly disparaging I'm sorry but that's the way it appears to me.
So it's " harder " Lots of things in business, as in life, are hard to do. As JFK once said: " We choose to.......do the other things, not because they are easy but because they are hard, because that goal will.....measure the best of our energies and skills. " As Vern said, it's the " can't do " attitude that's leading to the diminishing of the game.
But as I stated, this has not held back development in TSC or even titles like Railroader who seem to be thriving on selling steam traction. Seems to me they lost the talent who could produce this type of content and can’t even be bothered to try and fix up what’s already there. And if they want to stay in business, they need to cater for all aspects of their potential market. If the new UK route or the TSW5/summer bundle consists of all routes with modern electric trains, I doubt very much I will be buying, certainly not at full price. But put steam or classic diesel in there for one or more of the routes and very likely DayOne.
Personally speaking I wouldn’t mind if DTG continued to release steam trains even in their current condition, they’re still ok for many excepting the experts, and at least are represented in the game. They look and sound good. Not everyone is a steam specialist who can tell the difference.
Still rooted in reality though and more convincing sound and physics than DTG TSW efforts to date. As I said, I just don't think they have the talent now (or want to pay for it) to do a decent job when they can pluck the low hanging EMU fruit.
One handle trains are ideally suited for thumbstick players Steam locomotives on the gamepad? Already with a keyboard you run short of keys to remember, unless you play in Simple Controls mode There are so many controls on a realistically modeled steam locomotive's boiler backhead: firedoor, shovel, injectors steam and water, dampers, ejector, brake valves, grate shakers, all kinds of turret valves, controlling these with a gamepad will be difficult as you are also required to look ahead for signals, maintain a schedule, etc etc.
I purchased the PLD Large Prairies earlier this week. Until DTG can implement the same level of detail and operability, found in those loco's for TSC in TSW. They may as well just forget about steam loco's.
Access isn't the issue; there are plenty of preserved railways. You could get around that problem, by, for instance, offering a "simplified controls" mode which would not change the underlying simulation but would combine the keybinds of some controls - e.g. there could be a single button to open both the injector steam and water valves.
I don't have the steam locomotive in TSW, but plenty in TSC Some have a quite capable auto-fireman taking care of the grate, the best even automatic injectors One needs to change seats/stand on the footplate to reach the fireman's controls, I don't know if you can move inside a steam locomotive cab in TSW?
