Train Sim World 4 is much better than Train Simulator I think. A game that’s pc only and you can’t walk around clicking a train and drive it.
I would like to see how this is received on the Train Simulator Classic forums! As for the poll, I disagree. While I prefer Train Sim World, and will always hold it higher than Train Sim Classic, I cannot deny that Train Sim Classic has many benefits: chief among which is the sheer number of trains available. I have never played TSC, but it seems it is easier to develop for, and has better steam physics (apparently). While Train Sim World is infinitely better, I don't think Train Sim Classic has run its course yet.
Both sims have their ups and downs, there are certain things you can only do in one and the simulation of certain trains and their features also vary, each has their own fans. I don’t think we need another discussion about which is better. DTG already put a lot of their resources into TSW, just look at their DLCs here compared to over there, sure most of TSC is dominated by 3rd parties but there’s still money to be made there for example, AP enhancement packs usually require the base DTG version, if people wanna use the enhanced 700 they still have to buy first from DTG, same goes for a lot of routes too.
Very silly poll. Not worth the bandwidth. Polls were banned by the Moderators last year precisely because of pointless polls like this one. If you don't like TSC, don't buy it or play it. Leave those who do to enjoy it without having to read piffle like this.
Both sims have their good and bad points. Whilst TSW does look better graphically for the most part and offers the ability to wander round stations and trains, it hasn't yet reached the amount of DLCs to rival TSC. Also TSW does offer slightly more functionality within a train/loco but TSC with enhancements (AP etc) can offer the same experience. What TSW has going for it is the fact that it's newer and also available to play on consoles whereas TSC is PC only. TSC bonuses are that there is a lot of DLC content available from not just DTG but other 3rd party developers (AP, Steam Sounds Supreme, ATS etc) and there are several enhancement packs available for signals, tracks, OHLE, weather etc. Also TSC offers longer routes and networks and routes can often be merged to form one long route (eg the entire ECML from KX - Ed). The downside to TSC is that it is old tech running the core but DTG has been working to upgrade core features to make it easier for modern rigs to run using multithread cores.
For me it's like comparing MSTS to Rail Simulator... At the time MSTS had a ton of more material, Locomotives and add ons and Rail Simulator was pretty new, but was slightly more in depth... For me personally TSC has had its day, and I've moved onto TSW for good. Sure, TSC has had a lot of time to develop the amount of routes and trains, and has a thriving third party community that develop stuff for it. But it did take a while for TSC to get to that stage... So I've outgrown it now and way prefer TSW, which I love on a number of levels. Particularly in timetable mode where I can run a service, finish it, leave the service on foot and walk onto another service. In TSC classic, once you finished the scenario, that was it, game over until you start another scenario... But some people prefer TSC and it obviously still sells well so there is nothing wrong with having a dedicated team for the separate game.
Dovetail themselves haven't even released much of anything new aside the new scenarios for the 2024 deluxe bundle in YEARS, only 3rd parties have been put up in recent polls. Dumb poll.
At the moment I write this, TSC has more people playing it on Steam than all four TSW versions put together. That's why. The reason DTG still supports TSC is the same reason they still support 8th gen consoles: people are playing on them. The idea that any game company should cut off a profitable limb just because is ridiculous.
Plenty of conpanies who have some brand loyalty and significant market share do exactly that in order to force the change to the newer product. It is actually to DTG's credit that they don't engage in games like that.
The reason why DTG hasn't released any new content for TSC for the last 18 months or so is because they were working on updating the core to make it more stable. Once they have managed to do this, they will most likely start working on DLCs again, albeit in a reduced number due to the relatively small team that TSC has.
TSC has excellent Steam implementation that TSW4 can't hold a light to at his point. It also has 3rd party and community support that have provided railways from around the world and not just the big three. I addition their is a wealth of steam, early period diesel, electric and rolling stock from all periods. In fact, if you look at the many complaints about TSW4 when it comes to physics, variety and 3rd party and community support, TSC comes out way ahead of TSW4. TSW4 has much better graphics - the ability to get out walk around the locomotive and consists but I would bet most people still use the map to set turnouts . The biggest thing TSW4 has going for it is the fantastic graphics and potential. That being said - I just went back to the TSC Feather River Canyon Enhanced and had a blast with the freight services that were not a straight hook up a few cards drive to a yard and uncouple like almost all of TSW freight scenarios -- actually spotting cars and servicing lineside industries - what a concept. While I like TSW4 - it must come a long way to match the depth and breadth of what TSC offers today before I would want to see support removed from what I consider the Standard to compare. I also enjoy 3rd party application like the Third Rail Mapping program that displays you run on a moving map - sure wish TSW4 had something like that. Anyway - I still use both programs and like many others think this is a
I'm not playing TSW anymore. Its lighting is terrible, despite JetWash's efforts to make it better, its content is far too limited, everything circling around the same old routes, no real freeware scene, and ridiculous bugs all over the place. My TSC installation, enhanced with AP's fine packs, offers everything I need. I have about 100 of 350 routes that I don't even had the time to fully explore, the amount of freeware routes of highest quality is overwhelming. Most of the features, routes or locos the TSW community is crying for are already present in TSC. It has a superior HUD, map, dev tools. Routes like Blackpool Branches are available for free in two versions, electrified and non-electrified (also co-developed by JT's Tom Harrison). All stock in all liveries is available for free by the likes of DPSimulation, BackdatedTrainSim, MajorWalesDesign, VulcanProductions and ATS. Scenery looks much more believable than overexposed TSW with its Roblox like assets and missing Ambient Occlusion. And AP locos are of higher quality and functionality than what TSW offers. I can even select my horn type by using Shift/Control-H ingame. Engine exhaust looks far more realistic than in TSW - where it's completely missing on payware stuff like the 158.) Stuff like dunkrez 's HST Modern Cab pack puts TSW to shame. Real hi res texturing, functioning ATP system and a lot of individual cab variants. Awesome. Huge networks, TVL is just a small part of what you get with the North East England Lines (~120 miles) from DPSimulation. TSW has become completely uninteresting for me. A failed experiment. Even a masterpiece like Niddertalbahn has striking bugs (Vegetation swaying in non existing storm, overbright indicators in the 628 and the dimmer is not working). Add the notoriously bad LOD / dithering / popping issues which just hurt my eyes. Everything pointing to the fact that UE4 is not made for a train sim. Releasing an ÖBB Taurus in 2024 without a working LZB display is a joke. If you know the TSC Railjet from JustTrains/RailWorksAustria, it's no question which is the better sim. And TSC offers fine steam simulation. In TSW you don't have to care about how you manage your fire mass and water levels before climbing a hill, which completely eliminates the fascination of driving steam engines. It's all about (overly) shiny looks. TSW's Flying Scotsman drives a like a Diesel. An insult to simmers. No wonder steam is dead in TSW. The few who can enjoy this are in the minority. Harrogate Loop (Leeds - York) As for the original question - that kinda already happened. TSC has enough 3rd parties and content available that DTG are only caring for improving the core at the moment. Their last content release is from 2022. Don't get me wrong. I'm perfectly fine that DTG have TSW that works for them - they succesfully entered the console market (which is the main TSW player base) and can pay their employees. But, as being a closed system, it can never bring you what you want in terms of content. It's too expensive in terms of development, so you get short route "worlds". Armstrong Powerhouse have taken the visuals to a new level. Believable weather changes, amazing cloud scapes like rain downbursts at the horizon while weather is still fine at your location... they did stuff that nobody thought would be possible on the decade old core skydome layer system (which was improved only once when DTG took over Kuju's RS, adding the cylindrical cloud bands to the three rotating spheres.) Of course, bugs are in both games. But as TSW is closed development, its forums are full of posts tagging Matt for help (Matt - take care of yourself, I've been through a burnout myself!), whereas in the TSC forums we're helping ourselves. So I can live without TSW, but TSC is a life long experience for me.
There are scores of routes in TSC which will never see the light of day in TSW, not to mention if you want a reasonable simulation of steam traction you are well catered for in TSC as opposed to the pitiful implementation in TSW. I play both and enjoy both though TSC has the edge. However TSW still feels like a prototype proof of concept at times. The reworked LIRR jerks along like a rubber band accompanied by various sound distortion, far more off putting than the always on safety systems. TSC has a route editor that is at least useable by anyone with a bit of savvy, unlike the half baked, poorly (as in none, “but it’s Unreal Editor”) supported TSW editor that DTG pushed out as a marketing incentive for TSW4 and promptly abandoned not even updating so end users could officially cook and distribute their efforts. If it came down to a blunt choice between one or the other then I would rather DTG scrapped TSW4 and refocused efforts on bringing some of the features, like the all day timetable, to TSC.
I have both, I love both, for nothing in the world I would part with tsc. I developed routes on TSC, I have been playing there for 14 years!!! I like tsw4 it is of course more beautiful but not necessarily more realistic. Ultimately I play tsc more often than tsw4. There are so many things to do on TSC and I love steam trains, I found what I was looking for on the “machine rail” site which manufactures top quality steam locomotives. So many free routes available, so many countries to travel, tsc is a holy beast compared to tsw4. Anyway, excuse me but DTG should seriously consider a return to tsc, I think it would make a lot of money with a new dlc......
Which is the reason DTG have two horses in their stable. Both are needed. And we can choose between A, B, A or B, A and B, which alone is a great thing. I agree that TSW is a better out-of-the-box experience. It took me quite some time to get to my heavily customised "own" version of TSC, to stop Steam from messing it up, that fulfills all my needs. You can make it your own - that was always the intention behind TSC, therefore people could start developing back in 2007 and that's why there's so much fantastic 3rd party and freeware stuff out there. Thousands of people know how to make routes, scenarios and assets. A free route for TSW has yet to come, and it doesn't look as if it ever would. Not even a simple two station demo has been released (something I could make within an hour in TSC). DTG must approve a route so the AddonManager allows it to be loaded - that was changed with the introduction of TSW4+Editor. TSW3 fired up so quickly because it did not browse through all paks and used a simple DLC index in the Engine.ini, which is gone now (and has nothing to to with console AddonManager, it was an intentional measure against free route releases as was disabling the Cooking feature in the Editor. "Show us what you can do in the PC Editor forum and we might give you a job and access to the full tools.") Doing so (gatekeeping content) is generally a bad recipe for a game and can backfire on the developers. The most popular games were always open for community content and modding (I'm not talking about liveries or "formations", but playable content.) So you're all relying on DTG, the RoadMap (what's next? we're waiting), whereas in TSC I'd say it's next to impossible to make a list of everything available. Each day I can find a TSC route somewhere I haven't heard of before. And there's communities in countries like Romania or India I haven't even checked on.
The whole question of this thread is kinda off. "Should DTG stop releasing addons for TSC (...)?". As pointed out before, the last DTG release was in 2022. So this thread uses wrong presumptions, to begin with.
I think, independent upon whether you prefer TSW, TSC or want to have both continued to be developed, the question comes to late. TSW is already an own franchise with partwise a different audience. Many TSC players also refrain playing TSW for various reasons. I personally don't own TSC and don't plan to since I gave DTG enough money with my purchases for TSW already and I'm not 100% okay with this business practice to make several simulators and then charge for each and its separate DLCs the same prices again. If TSC prices had been dropped once TSW was out or at least you get a loyalty discount for for example the Dresden-Riesa Addon if you already own the respective DLC for TSW and vice versa then it would be more open to consider purchasing many stuff which is basically the same or even of worse quality a second time. TSC seems to offer more variety in locos and routes, but the prices are still to high for me to obtain it as well so No. I don't go as far as OP to say DTG should stop TSC and its developement, but I definitely see it sceptical to keep two train simulators alive at the same time and then "waste" an undefined amount of ressources and budget for one simulator, while you could use these to improve the other. TSC still seems to have a huge audience and therefore it makes sense to keep TSC maintained and developed, but I'm not quite sure what is DTG is planning on the long term with both and I'm as honest to say that the announcement of TSC 2024 kind of me gave me concerns how DTG is going with TSC and TSW into the future, but if you would ask an unbiased speculator from outside of this community (neither pro for TSC nor TSW), s/he would ask why they keep two train simulators in developement at the same time. Theoretically, they should have improved/updated the TS(C) to be a better game instead of even creating TSW in the first place and therefore now have 2 independent simulators both with different functionality, advantages, disadvantages and audience. BTW: The poll is useless even just because of a simple fact. The poll is multiple choice and one can vote for both, Yes and No.
Robert, I don't see anything problematic. TSC has a small team of core coders, and all content developers are working on TSW, so the resources (route builders, modellers, scripters, sound and gfx artists, community managers) are already on TSW's side. TSC needs the core platform to stay compatible with future OSs and the huge library of content available, and that's exactly what DTG are doing, as it's now "easy money" and the content has already been produced, still the biggest DLC library on Steam. They would be stupid to drop the thing they've built up for so many years. The aim is to be able to make profit from the content that's already been produced, for as long as possible - which is also funding TSW development. Simple as that. No more content resources, but kind of "Long Term Support" for the game engine. Which is a good business strategy, and a Win-Win situation. (Yeah, even I can give praise to DTG ) Fine by me, and I'm glad nothing is lost what I ever paid for!
didnt expect a conspiracy theory on my browse of the forums. I'm pretty sure it was said somewhere you cant release free routes anyway cause of the base game assets that are used and Epic Games' rules. Also its not "giving them a job". you can sign up to the third party program and have your route actually released to the store which includes consoles which is a big revenue boost for route builders. Matt has said they signed on a new UE developer to try and fix the editor and its cooking feature
That's a business, not a conspiracy theory. I was asking on the PC forums if someone managed to get a quick simple route (only rails and a few markers plus a one service timetable) pakd and playable in the game. No positive answer yet. So it is not possible (or: hasn't been proven otherwise), and Matt even stated it was related to DTG "needing to sort out Intellectual Property issues first" - so the deactivation of cooking and the AddonManager "gate" was deliberate. The fact that PC users can now use custom timetables and scenery upgrades (which is only possible due to trainsimcz's cooking mod) is creating an imbalance between PC and console users. DTG wanted to avoid this, but couldn't. They never said "Wow, Muff. Great you fixed the cooking issues!" (More likely, the DTG higher ups thought "Damn!") You'll never hear them talking about JetWash, Bescot, londonmidland, RobS and Fawx's great enhancements officially. (They did mention londonmidland, as his mods were officially part of the MML patch). Why not present the FifeCircle upgrade and wonderful timetable on the stream? Because you'd put off console players - the largest player base. SCS Software are working hand in hand with their most prominent modders, ProMods. It's symbiotic, and there's no fear of others taking away possible revenue. So all this was intentional, not "needs fixing". They want their share from every publication, so unless you're joining the 3rd party programme, you'll be stuck with playing your project in the Editor for yourself. And not everybody's willing to sign a contract / NDA. People just want to share their stuff with the world - which works in TSC as the full dev tools were released right from the start by Kuju. Which brings me back to the original question. TSW is just problematic and restrictive in so many aspects (and the reasons don't really matter in the end, it's a huge Beta), TSC is not.
Bit of a silly poll in my opinion. Why on earth would they need to stop focusing on TSC to focus more on TSW? If TSW needs more focus they can choose to employ more people and continue on both. I’m still of the opinion that TSC has a lot more life in it than TSW. DTG seem to be struggling to deliver features for TSW4 and are introducing more issues with every release. TSC has a reasonably stable core and the huge benefit of variety due to 3rd parties being able to develop for it more easily without having to go through DTG. And then there is Steam. Bit ridiculous that this has already been abandoned when TSC handles it really well. I love both for different reasons. But honestly don’t see where TSW gains if TSC is abandoned.
So you got all of that from the fact they dont promote EP's "officially" (they have endorsed them on the discord but whatever. probably just because players on consoles cant get them). And the IP issue is probably the main reason cause you cant just release assets for free that arent yours. No need to go on this "they need to make money for every route thats why you cant cook" with little to no evidence.
This poll points into a "wrong" (pointless) direction in my opinion. How is the development scope of TSC related with more tsw4 content? 1. Money will most likley lead to the decision if tsc is still a seller (for sure not a forum vote), same for the question if gen8 should be stopped. 2. DTG can speed up TSW 4 development without stopping an entire franchais. This would definetly get my vote, but only if DTG can deliver the expected quality.
No, where's your evidence then? I've given more evidence than just mentioning EPs. The cooking fix. Make a route, pak it and load it into the game. Prove me wrong. This all is the reason I don't like TSW. It's all too problematic and the discussions tedious. Content creation is not working, and the reasons don't matter in the end. And yes - they don't know how to protect their assets - something they managed to do in TSC by encrypting the model vertex coordinates using a 128-bit keyfile which needs Steam ownership approval to work - in the end we are saying the same thing both.
I think there is an erroneous view that DTG has a pot of money and chooses to spend some on each whereas they could spend it all on one, whereas actually, cut off the expenditure on one and you cut off it's income too. TSW isn't subsidising TSC, in fact you'll have some fixed overheads currently picked up by TSC which TSW would have to start covering, so you could end up with less resource going in to TSW if you stopped development of TSC.
Also don’t forget, freeware routes in TSC which reference assets from core or DLC routes generates extra revenue from sales of said DLC, if someone interested in said freeware wants to drive the route. The only slight Achilles Heel with TSC, but still nowhere near as the farce with the TSW editor, is that if you want to put your TSC route on Steam Workshop you cannot include any personal or third party content that isn’t within the core or official DLC. So no custom station signs or other unique features. Something I had hoped DTG would address, to reduce the reliance on the increasingly fragile nature of external hosting - we all took UKTS for granted, virtually an institution, until it was suddenly dragged away.
That's true, Vern - and you're getting to the reason why freeware content is currently blocked. DTG's TSC assets are protected - even if you pack them into your route, they will only work if the user has bought the DLC where the assets are from. So freeware and workshop help to push DLC sales, a sensible thing. In TSW, you could repack any DTG asset into your own project - that's why they locked the whole thing. Not technical, but IP reasons which is all I am saying. And that DTG are the sole publisher for TSW content was obvious right from the start. That's nothing conspirative. matinakbary "Projects" are featured. But have they presented the most popular things like the grandiose Fife Circle enhancement? FawX's superb timetable? Headlight fixes? Timetable fixes? Cabview fixes? Cooking Fix? I may have missed it.
TSW is a better game, TSC is a better simulator, of course there is some cross over, but they have their own markets.
TSW is a video game for children, TSC is close to simulator for more comprehensive mature people. TSC offers longer routes and networks and routes can often be merged to form one long route.
I can already see this thread derailing into a useless fight. they are both different but alike games. I doubt DTG will drop support for either of them even if the poll says they should. I'm suprised the thread isn't called "Enough is Enough TSC"
This is totally untrue. Such judgmental statements are not necessary and reflect more on the person making them than the subject matter at hand. In my discourse I stated my reasons why I think TSC is still viable, but would never put forth such dispersions toward those who had a different opinion. Both simulations fill different niches that appeal to different people. No reason why they shouldn’t co-exist on the company’s portfolio.
they are both identical games that just have a different structure and engine. Longer routes doesnt make it for mature people thats just silly
TSW is definitely a video game, but I disagree it's 'for children'. If TSC had a console variant, I'd certainly go for that, but TSW is just much more cost friendly hardware wise.
I’m running TSC (and TSW) on an 11 year old potato PC which has been updated to maximum extent so overall cost less than having to buy a new console every four or five years or if the existing one breaks. I can also use the PC for many more games or utilities you would never find or be able to do on console, which offsets any cost.
If I didn’t use a Mac for my daily computing, then perhaps TSC would be a better shout. I have an old PC, but don’t feel confident to upgrade it as I don’t understand that kind of stuff. So would need to buy a new PC, which would be much more expensive than a console.
Dtg have already stopped releasing content for tsc for a while now. It's only 3rd parties making content and dtg only doing core improvements to make it look and run better. Like others said, they have pros and cons. I'll stick to tsw because it is more beginner friendly and you can do whatever you want. It also runs much better. Tsc can be frustrating at times and there's barely anything to do compared to tsw
The two games both have strengths (which makes them better than the other) and weaknesses (which makes them worse). So in my opinion the two games are equivalent. In summary and generalising, TSW has a better graphic impact while TS, again without going into details, gives you something more on the simulation side. But in my opinion it is also more expensive than TSW (I'm talking about the PRO range products that can be purchased from third parties outside of Steam, where for a single train you can pay up to 40 euros.)
Just incoming, the TSC AP MML London - Bedford Enhancement... wow! TSW you have completely lost me. Y'all just go on with your Rivet and Skyhook threads and why this and that is not possible in TSW. I'm having a blast with the best train sim out there. AP shows what can be done if you want to!
