As the title says. I'd like to setup the class 101 as a substitute on my timetable for the Pacer. How would I go about doing that?
Okay, there's a couple of steps to this. Substitutions are defined in the formation (the data asset that defines the list of vehicles that make up a train, not the formation in the timetable sense). I was messing with my Elbe-Elster Dosto formation earlier, so I'll just walk you through what I did and hopefully that'll be a useful example. My goal here is a formation that's a 143 with three Dostos per default, but on AI trains the 143 will always be replaced by a 112 if the player has Hamburg-Lübeck installed. I'm just copying DTG's original 143 + 3 Dostos formation to make life easier for myself. For DRA, formations are located at /DresdenRiesa_Route_Gameplay/Timetable/Formations/. Other routes are probably similar. I just made a copy of the one I wanted, pasted it to my own plugin folder, and renamed it to something sensible. Now we open this file: As you can see, the formation is just an array of vehicles. "Vehicle" in this context can mean both an RVD (Rail Vehicle Definition) or another formation! As you can see at array entry 1, the three Dostos are their own "sub-formation", and if I made a formation with three n-Wagen, I could have that substitute for the Dostos. That would mean I could have Dostos or n-Wagen randomly, but never a mix of both. Anyway, I care about the locomotive, so I'm just looking at entry 0. "Allow Substitution" and "Substitution Probability" are pretty much self-explanatory. As for the rest... Setting up substitution is kind of a logic puzzle because you can't just specify a list of RVDs or formations you're cool with the game using. You have to find a combination of "Geographic Region", "Category", "Must Load Cargo", Minimum Powered Axles, Power Output, Schedule Speed, Multiple Working Standards and Cab Signalling Standards that includes all vehicles you want and none you don't... In my example, I set: Substitution Probability: 1 (I only want 112s, no 143s, if possible) Valid Geographic Regions: "DB Regio" Required Category: "Locomotive" Must Load Cargo: None Required Powered Axles: 4 Required Power Output: 0 Required Schedule Speed: 160 km/h (Top Speed on the 143 is 120 km/h, so this will prevent the game from subbing in other 143s) Required Multiple Working Standards: DB_ZWS (this is how the loco talks to the DRA cab car, and will stop the 110 from appearing) Required Cab Signalling Standards: None How do you find out which values make sense here? Look at the RVDs/subformations that you want to include/exclude. For example, the one for the 110 is found at /BRO_DB_BR110/Data/RailVehicleDefinition/. That tells me it has Geographic Regions "Germany" and "DB Regio" (which my formation includes) but only 140 km/h top speed and "KWS36" multiple working standard, so I know it's not going to appear in my train. There is one more available setting, but this is set up not in the Formation (the data asset) but in the Formation (the timetable node). Yeah, it's confusing. If you click on a formation node in your timetable, you get your "Rail Vehicles" list at the bottom of the details sidebar. If you expand the entries in that list, you can set the "Extension Length" property. The Extension Length is the amount by which a vehicle that substitutes in may be longer than the original one. I set this to 0 cm, which will keep the 146 out as that is longer than the 143. On the S-Bahn formations, I needed to give it a few metres of "Extension Length" to allow 146s to substitute in, but I didn't have to care about the entries in the Formation Data Asset nearly as much as the DRA locos have a "Bahnbetriebswerk Dresden" Geographic Region. Like I said, it's a whole logic puzzle to figure out. But given that Just Trains managed to make some kinds of Pacer appear in their timetable but not others, I'd assume the data for the pacer is probably pretty reasonable to work with (unlike the 112, which has a "DB Cargo" Geographic Region that means I probably won't be able to make it stop appearing on freight trains...) Good luck!
Thank you, this explains it perfectly! Super helpful as always, I've only got as far with this timetable as I have down to your help lol.
I think this thread sums up perfectly how complicated the work with timetables is. It's is own science, not a sub-topic of route creation at all. Not quite sure whether I can already dig myself into these complete studies about what all of this is right at the moment, but I'm currently about to solve/ask how a substitution in the sense I want it to be is possible/achievable. I don't know even if this is a substitution in the sense you do understand, but I give it a try. Basically, what I'm trying to do is making a service so that it could be played by two individual loco formations (f.e. a BR 143 + 3 coaches or a BR 442 in 3 unit formation) and in the TSW loco menu you can choose which one to use the service with. Not quite sure if this is a real substitution, as I want to have both formations permantely available to play with. For example, I don't want formation X to be substituted with formation Y always and ever, if the player owns DLC Z. I just want that the player can select/choose which formation to take the service with, so that formation X substitutes formation Y just for this session. I'll probably read several times through the above, but not quite sure yet whether I can get and do what I want to do with it. But thanks for the explanation!
That specific example is impossible because the two formations have a different number of vehicles. It would work with a 4-car 442, or two coaches on the 143. That's precisely what substitution is. It adds extra options in addition to the one defined in the timetable. All of these options are always available to the player in the main menu.
Good to know it's that. It was worth to ask back since often terms are loose and could be interpreted in various ways. This is a very interesting and helpful information. One only can substitute formations with ones which do share an equal amount of vehicles. So if I would want to have two formations composed of different amount vehicles, I need to setup two individual services (one for each formation) I guess, right?
If I would want to have 2 formations but with a different amount of vehicles. One solution and instead of the actual substitution (if this wouldn't be possible as stated above), would be to simply have two individual services timewise. For example, you have one formation doing the service at 10 a.m. and then do the other formation do the same service at 11 a.m. Basically two separate formations for two separate services.
I want help with my own substitutions in my Thameslink (2015) route. One thing I want to do even though I haven't even started is the route building, my planned route Thameslink Commuter (2015) which I am planning include the class 377/2, 377/4, 377/5 and 387/1 as "returning" trains with the class 319 as a new for TSW train. I want to set up timetable and substitution for each set of services as it is, I want the Sutton Loop and Sevenoaks services to always use the 319 on AI services but also allow the 377/5 and 387/1 to substitute only for the service that the player wants to drive, as for the services that the 377/5 and 387/1 usually operated on back then, I want AI trains on the Bedford to Brighton services to spawn on AI as a mix of 377/5s and 387/1s 50-50 but also allow the 319s to spawn but more rarely as AI but still selectable in the menu. As for the Southern units, I'm including the 377/2 and 4 so I want the Milton Keynes service at East Croydon to use the 377/2 but I don't want any other units to substitute on that service even as AI. On the Southern Metro services, I want to set it up to use the 377/4 as default (also 377/2 rarely) so that if a class 455 is developed, it can substitute as AI on 75 percent of the Metro routes it used to run on. As for the mainline Southern services, I want them to as AI use a mixture of 377/4 and more rarely 377/2s (not allowed Thameslink stock or class 455. Hope someone can help with that.
I'm sure someone can help you with that if you say what you're doing and what exactly the problem is. On the other hand, it's unlikely that anyone will just do the whole thing for you.
Well, what advice do you need then? You're just saying what you want to happen, but not what problems you've run into or what part of my guide above you don't understand.
Forget it, I should've known it was stupid to ask for advice in something too complex. I'll just give up planning my first PC Editor route then.
You can absolutely ask for advice! However: A) Asking "how do I do thing" in a thread that already has a "How to do thing" guide is perhaps not the best first impression to make. B) Just saying "I need help with substitution" is much too vague. Give some details. C) Put some effort into it yourself. Look at how DTG does things (you can open quite a few kinds of cooked assets in the Editor) or just try stuff out before asking for a how-to guide. Look for a tutorial, look at what DTG has done, try stuff out; when you get stuck, ask, and people will be happy to help you.
