Fix Tsw 4 Or Keep Making New Content?

Hi guys, should Dovetail focus more on fixing current bugs and glitches in TSW rather than producing new content? Yes or no?

 

The poll plague is back. Time for some moderation?

Oh dear, I forgot it's Sunday and a holiday tomorrow.

 

Yep, it looks like the obvious rage baiting polls are being snuck back in to cause chaos in these virtual halls........

 

The forums are going back to the old ways and not in a good way, huh.

 

The answer is obvious is it not?

 

Compare the amount of DLC DTG have released from the launch of TSW4 to now, and compare that to the number of DLC released from TSW2's launch to May 2021.

TSW2 DTG DLCs: 10
TSW4 DTG DLCs: 5

DLC output has already decreased significantly for DTG, and we are fast approaching the big summer release!

 

Fair point, but the long terms bugs and glitches don't seem to be a priority either?

 

Yeah, but no harm in bringing up the subject for DTG.

 

Despite whether you either vote for yes or no, Dovetail Games gives nothing about our opinion on that matter.

The problem I currently see is that neither of those fits the actual situation correctly. Looking at the recent roadmaps, there seems to be a lack of new content since quite a while.

If they don't want to fix old problems and want to focus on producing new content, okay, but this premise don't fit anymore as we don't see much and more variety with new content.

 

They also need to sell content to make money as a business. They couldn't just stop making content for more than a year. So it's complicated

 

Yes, but if DTG invested more time into fixing all the problems, they would have a far better product rather than just keep kicking the can down the road.

 

And thus the reason for the poll to highlight this, DTG appear to have no intention of fixing the problems. All we are getting is the promise of fixes, but TSW is never really fixed, how many versions of TSW have come out with promises that things would be fixed and nope. DTG surely can't be thinking of selling us another version with TSW4 in the state it is?

 

Bugs and other issues didn’t stop them from releasing TSW 3 & 4 so…

 

No, can stop the money train, but players can stop buying it and that soon de-rail the money train.

 

But there's always someone buying. Someone will always buy whatever, for various reasons.

 

Yes, but if a large player base suddenly says enough is enough, it makes DTG or any company listen. I don't think DTG will bring out another version of TSW after TSW 4 was a car crash, they can't keep flogging a dead horse with all the bugs and glitches that DTG have no intention of fixing, so we will probably get a new game TSU (Train Sim Universe) or something and it starts again.

 

It’s complicated though. DTG is a business after all and as much as we would love to see them take some time off and do fixes, they have zero incentive to. We can’t see the numbers, but I would imagine most sales of a route come immediately after release and then at sales. I’m guessing that sales of a route don’t increase after a patch or major update until a sale. Fixing an already released route requires dozens, perhaps hundreds of man-hours which is incredibly expensive, for almost zero additional revenue. Not only that, but it means less time on the content that does generate profit. Is this what we want to hear? No. But it’s how businesses think and operate. I think the far more reasonable demand for DTG is to spend more time on the product before release. That way they maximize sales at the time when sales are most likely to happen, and don’t have to lose money doing patches down the road. There’s only so much they can do though, as release times are driven by their publishers and their higher ups.

 

Nope!!! There was a time when game makers tested and tested a product before they launched it, but now they launch it with bugs because it makes money faster and sooner and to hell with the customer. And new content and patches sometimes breaks a product and if DTG operate a no fix policy, then it makes no difference if they launch a product fixed or not.

 

I don't think TSW4 was a car crash.

It hasn't seemed to put a dent in their finances so to them, TSW4 is a success.

 

Agreed.

Last year they declared 244k monthly active users across all of their games, down a little on the previous year as you would expect post pandemic. I don't know for certain how that splits, but if the forums are anything to go by, then TSW and TSC will make up the majority.

In a few months we'll get to see where numbers are for the financial year that just ended, but I'd happily wager there will be no material reduction.

DTG is in a sound place and seems stronger since the takeover based on limited publically available information. I'm sure they're doing fine.

I do think there are areas for improvement, and the small section of their customer base who inhabit these forums absolutely have a role to play as critical friends. But I don't see what these nonsensical polls add to the conversation. I haven't voted as the answers available don't appear appropriate to me.

You will have different people with different skill sets doing different things and those working on bugs may be very different from those working of other things. We don't know how which devs are needed for what work, and what their workload looks like, so we can't manage them.

All we can do is point out areas they are doing well and we'd like to see more of, and point out those areas that could be better and ask for them to pay attention.

This poll delivers nothing of value to anyone.

 

You must be new here.

 

Indeed. You don’t have to look very far on the forums to see there are plenty wearing the rose tinted blinkers that just drop full price on every new DLC, because they think DTG are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts!

 

I honestly think they just buy the stuff to drive trains

 

I manage to play this bug ridden, dead horse, car crash and get enjoyment out of it, so do many others it seems! I will buy DLC as I see fit, if I don't think it is worth the money or has too many issues then I don't buy it. I am not joining some crusade, especially when there is so much hyperbole on this forum at times.

It certainly isn't perfect and I do wish that bug fixes would come a bit quicker but to say they don't fix bugs is disingenuous, there is an update imminent, I believe. They might not fix them all or not quick enough but there are fairly regular updates. I would like to see the factual evidence which shows that they have no intention of fixing bugs?

As for the poll, I don't want them to stop producing DLC, although I do think that they should probably look at how they can get fixes out quicker or more comprehensively. No new content means no cashflow and anyone involved in business knows that is not sustainable.

 

I was going to type a whole paragraph here, but The Organist has near enough summed up my thoughts on the topic, likely in a much more readable way than I could ever dream of! DTG is a business and so need to maintain that positive cashflow, so yes bugs need to be fixed in a timely manner, but also DLC must be released to continue to keep funds up.

 

Yes, which means DLC output and number of bugs fixed doesn't seem to correlate.

That doesn't mean DTG aren't fixing bugs, but I don't think reducing the number of DLCs is going to affect how many bugs are fixed.

 

I honestly think they just keep buying the stuff, because they have more money than sense.

 

No, it kept crashing and it still has bugs and glitches. Now you can argue that it is not TSW4, but the DLCs, but DTG should have fixed this for TSW4, but nope and same will happen uf TSW5 comes out.

 

I buy the stuff because I want to drive trains, and no I don't have more money than sense. I just don't go in with high expectations.

 

Yet, I haven't experienced a single crash for a few months now at least. Many of the bugs and glitches people seem to have I haven't experienced either.

 

Doesn't everybody in the western world have more money than sense? We are on a forum discussing some people's train simulator. If you have time for that you already have more money than sense IMHO

 

I see the next poll coming:

Do you have more money or more sense?

[ ] yes
[ ] *ABBA voice* money money money
[ ] what's sense

 

The poll is there to give players a voice, DTG some feedback and everybody can see what the majority of players are looking for. In terms of bugs not being fixed NTP is an old DLC and it has bugs, Bakerloo is an old DLC and it has bugs to name just a few issues? I understand you want DTG to produce more DLCs and that is what this poll is about get opinion down, but DTG doesn't seem able to service what they have, so producing more DLCs for them not to be able to cope even more? The constant promise of updates and fixes, how old is the game, how many versions and we still have some of the same bugs if not more.

 

Producing DLCs makes them money. TSW relies on the DLC model to survive.

 

Obviously, but is there a reason for this?

Exactly! Thank you, such honesty is refreshing. The problem here is that many others understandably do have high expectations for software that is selling at premium prices and are peeved at NOT getting a premium product.

Not when DLCs stands for "Discontented Lamenting Customers".

 

DLCs are a short term revenue stream and even shorter if DTG don't fix bugs and glitches because customers will stop buying period.

 

Funny, I was playing TSW4 Bakerloo last night, spent 47 minutes driving and got off my driver seat and end up halfway through the roof and unable to complete the route, I think they call that a bug or glitch or my personal favorite wet tracks in the tunnels of Bakerloo route, tunnels leak water? Please, bugs galore! I have to save in case the game crashes and when I restore or use saved game the HUD disappears and the destination points go to.

 

DLCs are the only revenue stream for TSW. Fixing bugs makes less money than new DLCs because there is nothing new. That's just the way it is.

Don't own Bakerloo (well, I do as I got it with TSW2 but never used it), nor do I use the save game function so I cannot speak for either of them.

 

It maybe does to you.

 

I'm on PS5 and I can't remember the last time I had a game crash. Bugs? Yes. No game breaking bugs for a while.

When using older DLC for previous versions, I think we need to acknowledge that TSW is the only game I know of where DLC bought for previous versions is compatible. They could probably solve the problem by not making it compatible in future.

Imperfections in old DLC released for previous versions of the game tend to be small and manageable. I have four versions of Farming Simulator installed, for example, just so I can play old maps/dlc/mods.

DLC is clearly labelled as being for the older versions of the game. Some of it has been updated, some hasn't.

TSW is neither perfect, nor is it completely broken.

Feedback is good, and detailed feedback always seems to be taken on board from what I have seen, but binary polls aren't feedback. They don't give DTG usable information.

DTG is a games company who are shifting in excess of half a million units a year (assuming an average of £30 per unit which is probably a tad on the high side), in niche markets so they must be doing something right.

 

The biggest cop out was the reset the train function in the menu, DTG didn't put that in there for nothing, they realise there are bugs and gliches they haven't addressed and this is a work around. The save function was given back to us on the understanding it isn't fixed, but you can have it and see how you get on. In terms of not using certain bits of TSW4, thus just proves how big it has become and what a nightmare it is to fix, thus the should DTG fix things before more is added?

 

Funny, I don't remember DTG ever saying that instead of fixing a bug with a train not moving, they'll let you reset it instead. It is actually there for if you can't figure out why the train isn't moving etc.

The save function was put back so people could use it if they wanted to. There's an option to disable it altogether.

 

Yes, there is an option to disable the save function, that solves the problem doesn't it? And in regards to the reset of the train, the only time I have to use the train reset is because the train has glitched and some times even that doesn't solve the problem. In between stations the other night on the Bakerloo I had to reset the train, a time before that I had to reset the train on NTP and it didn't work I had to restart the game. I am putting some hours into the game and I am finding the bugs and glitches.

 

All points are valid, thank you so much for your response on a poll that you don't think holds any value? I am really sorry, I didn't put a "sit on the fence" option along with the yes and no. The poll is only to highlight to DTG and everybody's input is great to have.

 

Maybe the third option should be left off so we can honestly say the poll is senseless.

 

Very good

 

It seems really hard to answer the OP's questioning.

Of course I want to have the bugs fixed. But history has taught me to fear DTG's "patches". Only the IT Gods know what will then be broken. Fix one bug and introduce three or four new exciting ones? Naaaah, don't think so. They've lost control over their spaghetti code long time ago.
Another TSW iteration? With overblown new features, announced with that pompous fanfare? Some of them to be delivered later, or maybe never™. And who needs such worn out PR stunt?

Again.

Wait for sales, if at all, and expect nothing!

 

To be clear, not everyone who develops new content can be involved in bug fixing. Since they could complete their part of the work (what they specialize in) without bugs. And in order for these people to remain in the company, they must be paid money. And in order to pay them money, they must continue to work.
So my option: provide maximum possible people in to bug fixing, without destroying the development of future content.

 

Ah yes, I think you are on about the proverbial have your cake and eat it, how's that working out so far?

 

Your snarky responses don't really help your cause.