Enough Is Enough!!! The Ongoing Saga!!! 3 Year Anniversary

As much as I criticize DTG, I really enjoyed their TSW2 game, I enjoyed spending hundreds of hours in it and it was great times, thanks for that to the development team.

 

I still believe TSW2 has been the best release in the franchise, and will continue to believe that until we see any significant overhaul to the game engine that would actually warrant a re-release and not just a quick money grab with features like volumetric fog, which was just a checkbox, and TOD4 which could've easily been updated and included with TSW2. In the TSW4 game files the programme is still referred to as 'TS2Prototype'.

 

I play the original Routes on TSW2 (less melting on my RTX); I only have TSW4 for the newer UK / US Routes.

 

No, it's 'TS2Prototype'. No W.

 

Please for the love of god fix the multitude of controller problems I've been having on PS5 since TSW4 launched. Full game crashes from hitting a shortcut, non working controls, missed inputs, improperly labelled controls. Where is the polish or attention to detail? Where are the bug fixes? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!

 

You'll find many of us here being rather fond of TSW2 Oh the potential we saw back then.

 

I agree. Performance has deteriorated since TSW2. Every newer version seems to have more of the dreaded immersion breaking stutters and pauses.

A pommie friend of mine has the London to Brighton route for TSW2 running on a PS5. The section between Croydon and Victoria has the odd annoying stutter here and there but the line between Brighton and Croydon runs fairly smoothly and is enjoyable.

On Friday 9 Feb 2024 DTG had their "Festival of Rail" stream on YouTube and the London to Brighton route was featured running on TSW4 and I assume DTG used a very capable machine for what was a major showcase broadcast.

Not sure what platform was used but the performance leaving Brighton towards Victoria was absolutely atrocious. It was so much worse than it runs on TSW2/PS5 and at times you can see the presenter (Matt) wincing and grimacing at the awful amount of stutters that the route produced. I almost felt embarrassed and sorry for him but then came to my senses and realised he was actually trying to sell this dismal second (third?) rate "product".

Here is the video. The Brighton route run starts at around the 42 minute mark (42:00)



My pom chum made a timeline of the major immersion breaking stutters for about half an hour on the run before muttering some cockney obscenities and giving up. Here is a copy and paste of his log...

(Timings given as runtime on video in format MM:SS and HH:MM:SS )

43:20 44:31 45:02 45:28 45:46 46:03 47:30 49:20 50:03 53:01 53:32 54:03 54:55 55:20
55:52 56:37 59:10 1:02:20 1:03:21 1:03:35 1:04:20 1:04:47 1:05:18 1:05:28 <Stopped at station>
1:10:05 1:10:45 1:11:00 1:11:29 1:11:45 1:12:11 1:12:23 1:12:50 1:13:29

With performance as bad as this TSW4 is nothing short of a disgraceful poor quality rip off being sold at premium prices.

Shame on you DTG.

 

Something I noticed a few weeks ago While looking for info and researching a few trains, I found this to be very interesting, as it shows what is popular on TSW YT video pages.

Personally, I really like the TSW1/2020 interface from the main menu to in-game. The one thing that is a pain in the Bumm is that in TSW 2, you are thrust into a scenario upon launch of a Route. And it would have been nice to have a Clear image rather than it being Blurry.

 

There's a reason they've left the London to Brighton route alone.

It's unstability being why, given its their most ambitious route.

 

A lot of interesting updates
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/update-notes-june-3rd-core-uk-add-ons.81873/
They finally fixed the BML bug with the 377. The SEHS PIS bug that's been there since TSW3 hasn't been fixed though.

 

Yet the Brighton to Croydon section runs well on PS5/TSW2. The same route on TSW4 runs like a heavily sedated pig suggesting the coding "upgrades" (LOL) that went into TSW4 are responsible for hugely degrading the overall performance.

How is that acceptable when charging premium prices for a product? Normally as newer versions come out you would expect a performance improvement but what we see is the complete opposite with TSW3 worse than TSW2 and TSW4 running slower than both editions 3 and 2.

In what parallel reality is that acceptable to anyone apart from diehard fans with very low expectations?

 

That's the thing though, it may run well, but on the development side, touching it may cause more problems than it's worth. Although they did fix the bug with the 377, so they obviously can amend the route without breaking anything (unless somethings broken I'm unaware of).

It's most likely just an excuse to leave the route alone.

 

I loved the menu in TSW1, and I liked being able to change the diorama as well. When TSW2 came along we got the platform one only (the worst one I felt), and that was replaced with the even worse station diorama.

 

Well tsw4 is the newest game so makes sense

 

I really like it, and it worked Very well, the TSW2 version puts you in a dark warehouse scene after you get past the Bla-looking, XB-scrolling home page. When you have something good that works, don't change it so drastically.

 

They don’t want to touch BML because it could break the certain consoles’ RAM limits. The current build is already on a knife edge memory-wise. PCs would be fine but DTG look at the big picture.

 

But the same bug that's in the post you've quoted is also in TSW4.

On that same route, they've made some changes, even introducing new scenarios, in TSW4.

 

Now, this might be very controversial, but after looking at the new roadmap, I have to wonder... what is DTG doing?

We always mention here it's new content before any fixes... well there haven't been that many DLCs from DTG itself, patch logs seem often laughable to read given how few changes there are and how small they are... both certainly appearing a lot less than let's say in TSW2 days.

So not much content, not much fixing... so new functionalities, right? Well, I would like to ask TSW4 owners here - almost a year later, did you already get what was advertised in the release?

A year delay in implementing 'put stuff in a train how you want' and 'train bouncing'...

(Btw IMO the suspension system looks absolutely hideous from the outside as the proper parts of the bogeys are not animated and the axles just jump in the bearing domes, which is beyond unrealistic... given it takes that long to implement... what a waste...)

So, what are they actually doing? Have they become reliant on 3rd parties churning out content? That would, however, free them to do the fixes, which also slowed down compared to previous years.

 

Just to repeat what was mentioned a few moments ago in the Abandoned Steam…thread.

Essentially they have confirmed the focus now on modern “fun” trains and that suspension physics are currently taking absolute, inviolate priority over even a little tinker with steam to make it better.

Follows on from one of the dullest, unimaginative roadmaps to date.

Well really enough is becoming enough. Getting very close to the point at which the whole TSW charade gets chucked in the digital recycle bin.

TSC, SimRail, SCS or flight sim can have my money in future.

 

It's not a roadmap, it's a meandering farm lane with a big fat nothing dead end.
Enough is completely and utterly enough. SCS is my idea of a competent and trustworthy developer.
They always get my money as soon as they drop a new DLC for ETS2 and ATS.
Funnily enough trucking on the pc comes second to rail simming on the pc.
So it says it all really...........................Enough Is Enough.

 

Probably why community projects took a part of the roadmap as the filler, to make it more interesting.

 

TBH I used to like the early period of TSW so much better than now, routes with 2 units to drive, plenty of vintage content, dlc including things like the Class 20, and plenty of freight action back then, it was so much more like TS which was a good thing. Now they've cut back to one new train per release and gone modern day EMU berserk. All we ever seem to get with rare exceptions are modern/modernish EMU's on an A to B linear route passing mostly empty yards. Once you've driven it a few times that's it basically, rinse and repeat.
The remasters are a good thing for sure, and I'd like to see a few more of the older ones get this welcome attention. But please DTG bring out more retro stuff and freight that is more interesting to drive. I don't understand why this game solely should sell only modernish stuff successfully as has been mentioned by Matt, as an excuse to not do vintage stuff. All the other train games out there sell very well doing plenty of vintage content and freight. Run8, TS and Trainz all sell plenty of freight and vintage stuff, why should this game be so different?

 

I was rather disappointed when I saw the suspension videos as there was absolutely no animation of the springs and axle boxes, just the wheels bouncing up and down. How can the developers be satisfied with this half-a***d solution? I remember feeling the same way when I first panned around the JT Pacer at speed, but naively thought DTG’s fancy new suspension system would one day save the day. What now for UK train simulation? Simrail UK content is years away and the latest Trainz doesn’t seem much different than TRS2004, they really need to start afresh and stop using 20-odd year old assets. TSC now just seems to be a licence for AP to drain our wallets.

 

I've analyzed my behaviour here. 90% of my TSW related posts were statements of dissatisfaction. So - I've dumped the game instead of wasting time on it and the forums, and feel much better now without it. It's the game of "Why don't they / let's hope / one can dream" I'm not willing to play. TSC has got what I need. And forget your steam hopes in TSW.

AP got my money, and they deliver perfection and pushed TSC forward like no other developer. I've got almost the full catalogue and it's worth every penny. Better models, textures, sound, more variants and liveries than TSW. And better clag!

 

I can't believe that DTG and some players are obsessed with a minor distraction like suspension animation. With the abandonment of steam traction, freight railroading and anything that requires more than a lazy pull-push of a joystick in an overpowered electric toy train, this apparently poorly- implemented suspension effect is the TSW equivalent of bread and circuses, meant to divert our attention from the rapid narrowing of the game's purview.

 

Nobody needs it nobody wants it - so they're doing it (and not even good apparently). I can adjust my suspension bounce in the AP 142 with Shift/Ctrl+B .

 

Not obsessed, just disappointed. My point was, why go to the bother of assigning a team of devs for many months to create a realistic suspension system, and only do half a job? It just doesn’t make sense.

 

( my emphasis )

Oh how true!!

 

I honestly think the whole suspension thing is even worsening the general TSW feel given how horrible it looks from the outside. I would rather have the parts of the bogey not move than move completely wrong.

 

Expect nothing - buy what's there, based on what it is and not what you hope it to be after some patches... These thoughts about "Why do they..." are a pure waste of your energy and time and won't change anything.

 

Feels like a safe bet that the focus on suspension is due to that having been a hyped release feature for TSW4.

Spikee's advice to buy based on what's delivered rather than what's promised also goes the other way--complain about what's delivered rather than what's shown well in advance. Those suspension animations are in-progress for a feature still a good month+ from release according to the roadmap (and we don't know how long ago that video was captured).

 

Page 103

 

To say AP have their own issues is an understatement...

 

I'm in agreement with the last few posts on Page 102. I'm not giving up on TSW yet - I still really enjoy it, particularly German Routes - but I fear the emptiness of the roadmap at this time of year is just confirmation that TSW5 or some sort of summer package is on the way. My feeling is that, if whatever arrives, requires me to download everything again, then I'm probably just not going to bother, unless some very special route comes with it. I am looking forward to the Cathcart Revamp, and the expert 101 though.

However, I still keep finding myself dragged back to TSC. The sheer variety of stock and the the amount of traffic in a well written scenario beats the shiny overexposed and sometimes empty world of TSW for me every time. I don't buy the argument about timetables being TSWs winning feature as for most of the routes I own, I have far more scenarios than I'll ever have time to drive. I certainly don't get the need for walking around. I'm there to drive the train, not go for a stroll. TSC is having a bit of a renaissance at the moment there are some absolutely brilliant routes / enhancements available and for the most part cheaper than TSW or even free. It's cost a lot over time, due to my investment in enhancements, but I've already made that investment, anything new coming along, I normally have most of the stock for already (and if I don't because the editor actually works, I can easily swap things out). There is still far more community content being developed than there ever will be for TSW,

I think TSW has really lost it's way in the past year. Suspension, not delivered. Previews don't look that good to me. I would probably switch it off given the chance. The editor, still can't cook content (Starting to think this is deliberate to force people to go to DTG to distribute their work - glad that there is a community workaround for this), Freeroam, still doesn't work that well with some locos (though this is by far the best part of TSW 4 in my opinion) and the consist editor still isn't out of beta. Even though I'm not a big fan of steam, it is absolutely disgusting that they have just abandoned it without getting what is currently out there working to a reasonable level. Whatever comes in summer is going to be a very tough sale to me. Though if DTG are as predictable as normal, I'll only have to wait 6 months for a humble bundle to pick it up cheap.

I hope DTG isn't going down the yearly paid release road, but every indication is that they are. I don't like it at all. I want TSW to succeed but at the moment I'm feeling like it might be a (hopefully temporary) end of the line for me soon. DTG will likely still get my money through, just less of it and through TSC instead.

 

Just today on Facebook Rail Traction showed off a freight wagon developed for TSW.

At this point, with the formation editor, the scenario editor and with Free Roam I would really like to know why DTG DOES NOT CONSIDER THE IDEA OF PUBLISHING PACKAGES OF LOCOMOTIVES OR FREIGHT WAGONS etc. FREE FROM THE ROUTES.

WHY?

DTG better wake up once and for all!!!

Develop trains, not words.
Your obsessive control of marketing destroys variety.

 

Reynaldo demonstrates his own unique way to enjoy the California sun

 

Er, except they do and have done since TSW3?

 

It takes them a year to add a new freight car.
Don't you notice?

 

But they're now no longer tied to specific routes.

 

I understood this too.
Have you counted how many DLC's Loco have been released?
And how many bundles of freight wagons or passenger carriages?
A little bit I would say.
Without third party developers it's a desert of ideas.

Like the German locomotive by Simtrack Studios.
It's been on the roadmap for months (remains a mystery what it is) and has now been downgraded to TBD.
DTG doesn't know what type of locomotive this is?
But are they taking the piss out of me?

 

No offence but I wouldn't say every product of theirs is perfect lol (with the one I'm most frustrated about being the AP350).

 

First of all what did dtg even do to you? There's zero evidence they are taking a piss at you. Or are you only saying that because you just want to talk badly about dtg?

Game development is not smooth. It changes all the time and has nothing to do with dtg's decisions. Simtrack just needs more time. I would suggest you try developing something while working on other projects at the same time and see how easy it is to do that. Plus, lots of other games miss deadlines or get delayed so shouldn't you also get mad at them?

 

Sweet dreams baby.

 

Over in model train world a Class 60 in 00 is being produced by another manufacturer. We dont even have that class yet in TSW. The majority of EMUs in TSW cant even be bought in model form (UK based ones). I can only presume there is a huge amount of people enjoying modern EMU units.

 

Why wait when everything's already there (and revamped for free by MajorWalesDesign?).




And AP allow configuring a crazy amount of details on their locos.


Be ready to wait for many more years until TSW offers the stock TSC has, if it ever will. As long as DTG are insisting on being the sole publisher of content, there's no way this can happen. You get three, four locos per year. And stock development for TSC is still going strong by 3rd parties.

Of course it's up to everyone. But I won't swap shiny UE shaders and walking simulation for the variety of routes and stock in TSC. Because it left me frustrated, and that's not what I want to spend money on. I wanna drive, not collect hats or Pizza (and bugs), and the coverage of the UK in terms of routes and stock of all eras is amazing in TSC.

This is what makes a good sim - content. TSW's development is hampered by Lava Flow, complicated processes, routes taking longer to develop (whilst not looking better as TSC routes per se), high risk of breaking what's there. And slow output. But people need to be entertained while waiting for something new to play (because stuff gets old quickly), so you got the fun "Roadmap" show.

Since leaving TSW behind, it feels like I got freed from a harmful addiction. I'm addicted to trains of course, so I go where I can find them and play with them as I like to. It's not TSW. TSC is the World that puts a smile on my face.

Making mistakes is ok, repeating them is inexcusable. So drawing the line like the OP has done was the logical thing to do. Never stick with things that make you unhappy.

So, enough with Enough is Enough for me. No worries, life's too short

 

I wish I could do so, I've yet to find something better, including TSC, part of that is the fact that I can't be arsed to learn the game properly. I don't play any train "simulator" right now, I hop on TSW, once a month, play for half an hour and get disappointed every time, mainly because of the stuttery mess that leave me with a headache and nauseous for hours, but then again, I'm still on TSW3, with all bugs that came with it and never will be patched, such a shame what this has become..

 

Says it all when the Week Beginning… article in Announcements section of TSW focuses entirely on celebrating the 15th anniversary of TSC. Not a single item of interest referring to TSW. At all.

 

Problem I have is a lack of time TSC is great on the content range but putting it all together? I remember once spending a whole day downloading a freeware route which was well put together then driving a long and seeing milk bottles and texture missing signs everywhere...

There needs to be a easier to make content for platform as a lot of us are waiting with wallets open....

 

Frankly I consider DTG being the sole publisher a positive, since the devs who refuse to publish through DTG tend to be nickle-and-dimers.

And yet you got into AP!

 

Absolutely, and why I rarely bothered with freeware routes. The other well-known challenge is that most good UK scenarios require a heavy investment in AP (and other) wares. I bought a fair amount of that stuff over the years, but at one point found the ends did not justify the means and gave up trying to keep up. I’ve spent far more of course on TSW but that is at least a complete, if flawed, package. So although I miss the variety of stock available for TSC, the stock/route situation was too fragmented and time consuming for my taste.