The only real truck sims (ETS and ATS) only realistically get a couple of expansion a year and they're not detailed to anywhere near the same level as TSW.
What an absolute load of rubbish, the two truck sims are head and shoulders above TSW and SCS does not charge an arm and a leg for DLC, which is released on a regular basis. Also better supported by their respective modding communities, because SCS has made the games accessible. DTG did their utmost to make TSW inaccessible, even the released editors need a degree in computer science.
Sorry you are clearly trolling. The reason scs can sell cheap and release lots per year is because they are making maps that look NOTHING like real life and are not to scale. Sure they have a few landmarks to give you the immersion of “oh look that’s (insert name) so I am in (insert state name) however all maps are the same. A simple grid like road system throw in some truck depots a garage admins recruitment agency join it up to a highway job done. They also reuse common assets so don’t need to model everything. TSW is 1-1 scale and custom assets for each route. So of course it’s going to cost more and take longer to make.
He is allowed to have his opinion without being accused of trolling. My take is that it's not a 1:1 environment, so from that perspective the deliveries take less time in general unless you go out of your way to get an all day/all night one from Houston to Spokane, or something like that.
honestly i am asking the same thing. Why cant DTG and or 3rd parties just extend or just get rid of the time limit they have on making a route and actually making something good. Apart from laptop and pc limitations on routes. That is no excuse to cut corners. We have already lack carriage variants with the OBB route. And typical Rivet have cut the route coverage in their bernina line. Tracks there but the entire route was cut. Hell at the moment (to my knowlegde) the longest end to end point route in TSW is ECML. And that route itself is either mid or at a stretch good. Even destination wise we dont even get to go to York or Leeds. (or i may have been the US freight routes? I am unsure though). Apart from route length theres also things such as branching out from a line which could extend the line length even more which they still dont do. So again, DTG or 3rd parties should just throw away the concept of a time limit on a route building they need to do and just with the extended time allow them to actually make good products and NO CUTTING CORNERNS.
You only have to look at some of the TSW routes to see they are far from 1:1. West Cornwall is largely represented as a great forest with swathes of open prairie where there should be small villages and hedge/wall pattern fields. Many routes repeat the same generic buildings. Others have chunks of distant hills missing. The later maps in ATS actually do a very good job of depicting the State they are representing and anyone playing the game quite accepts the scale compromise. I would very much like it if SCS enabled a working rail network on their maps, probably do a better job than TSW with their short A to B commuter routes showcasing the latest one handle EMU with simplified physics.
Well, put it this way. If they spend 3 years building the entire ECML with all branches for example, and it was poor received and didn't sell well, that would just be a waste of money.
I highly doubt the entire ECML would be poorly received, particularly if we got a Deltic and Paxman HST to thrash from Kings Cross to Edinburgh. That’s where market research comes in but in future nonsense like Rivet’s half the Bernina Line simply shouldn’t be an item.
The reason SCS can sell cheaper is cause they have a larger player base. But they also have or been working well with the base game to improve on it. Also you must of not seen the newer US maps, they do alot in doing their best at trying to mimic the real road layouts and interchanges as best they can within the scale they've set for themselves. Phase 3 of the Cali rebuild is a good example, alot of places I recognize IRL, due to how well SCS made the areas. (Though I still have some gripes about the backroads around Fresno)
Obviously it wouldn't. I'd do anything to have it. This is the thing. Longer routes would do well if they knew which ones would sell. Using the ECML again, many would want it, there's already some thinking it is too short as is. If they researched what people wanted out of it, then it'd sell regardless of length.
I never said he isn’t allowed to have his opinion. So well done on trying to twist a comment as usual. Very well done though on leaving out everything I said in my reply which clearly is facts giving you left those parts out of your usual reply to try and stir drama. have a wonderful weekend.
wasn’t one of the questions in the poll DTG sent out about route lengths ie short, long etc etc. I imagine DTG look at the results of the poll to see what people voted in that and take the majority.
If they got rid of the concept of time, then nothing would be released and they wouldn't make any money. They don't have unlimited budget or time. They have to make content constantly and earn enough to make a living and thrive as a business. Having 1 route every 3 years is also not favorable cuz then you'll get players complaining it takes too long to get what they want
If you say someone is trolling, you instantly discount everything he says as stirring up trouble. It is his opinion, not trolling at all. Further, I gave my opinion and don’t have a requirement to quote the rest of your reply to give my opinion. I am done. You don’t have to defend yourself. Good day.
If need be, DTG can make and release a few short routes to fund a really long one. It's not that hard to figure out.
Okay somewhat. And I do feel like just throwing out the whole "time limit" on building route is a bit over exaggerated. I think at most they should've extended their time on building routes. Allowing delays that are less than a year maybe? Other wise to cover this up they needed more routes to be made. I meant ECML i meant the current section we have. (And pretty sure even in TSC's case) we dont even have the entire ECML in one route, and they are all separated in sections assuming is for optimization and i dont think anybody's pc can handle the entire ECML.
Problem is. Short routes dont last very long if they are linear which is most routes released on DTG. (And hence why i want to suggest ECML extending to York and Leeds so we have 2 locations to branch off while having the Doncaster to Peterborough section. Its long enough and we can branch out.).
But what I'm saying is, if they make a shorter route, all the while working on, say extending the ECML, then they're still able to have an income and a way to fund the extension (which currently means rebuilding the route from scratch). That way, they're not losing money. Maybe these smaller routes could all relate to the bigger one in some way,either with the actual route or rolling stock (for example, Scarborough to York would give the incentive for a York extension as well as use the Class 185 which could layer onto the current ECML at Doncaster).
that’s not how it works. Each route has a budget. They budget has to cone from somewhere and that is sales. You can’t have a team working on a long route as that budget will soon run out. You then also have a larger budget to pay back from sales and what if that long route does not sell well end result they have lost ALOT of money. Factored into the budget is also time time costs money. All well and good saying to take money from other routes and put that into a longer route. But how much percentage if that money do you take you also rely on a profit still being made on the shorter routes. They are a business business work to deadlines and money. Both have to work for profit or it soon quickly bleeds a company or funds.
But if it means two more months of work and an extra $10 per customer, then there are complaints it is too expensive and there are fewer sales. They try to balance as much as they can.
390001 I don't even know what trolling is. So you shot yourself right in the head there. ETS2 & ATS do not represent themselves as 1:1 scale. But there are many map mods for both games, that have been created to a 1:1 scale. Value for money SCS out does DTG by a country mile. MY OPINION and as an old git who has been around the block a few times and paid good money for this less than adequate game. I think i am entitled to express my views.
“Trolling is when someone posts or comments online to deliberately upset others.” https://www.esafety.gov.au/young-people/trolling Which you clearly were not doing.
Right you hit the nail on the head there. You can use MODS to make it 1-1 scale. Those mods are made by community members not SCS. The same as the talented people who make mods for TSC and TSW to enhance the sim from the base core to keep the hobby going. anyway this is all off topic and as Jan mentioned the other day we should try and keep threads on topic. Happy trucking may see you on the MP one day if you use truckers MP or the online servers. If you are looking for a online community that has a large online server using the multiplayer function in sim and who hold giveaways for dlc maps etc drop me a dm will tell you the name to look for in the list.
If anyone needed mods to "keep the hobby going" then I suspect that 2/3 of players wouldn't be on console. The idea that mods are needed to keep it going is odd - even if they can elevate routes to new heights. The only routes that would need mods to be fairly enjoyable are the bad ones - Fife Circle, Oakville, etc.
So there is a full length ECML? (And another question for another topic so dont reply here, is there ever a WCML merge too?)
Not in TSW, only in Train Simulator Classic, they are working on WCML too. https://alanthomsonsim.com/
Except WCML is completely done in all parts, so literally anyone who knows how to merge them can do it. The only question is whether there are additions for other paths along the way for more involved scenarios, like Manchester or Liverpool down to London.
All this dwelling on "length" is pointless. As you all know, length is not as important as what you do with it and this probably also applies to the routes on a railway s̶i̶m̶u̶l̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ game. Saying that, FYI on a personal level I would likely be compared to the Trans-Siberian Express.
Just as a side comment on the long route issue - has anyone calculated the overall cost of the ATS WCML or ECML merge for TSC after including all required DLCs? That might give a hint at the cost of such a route in TSW. Just imagine the whingeing!
This one- https://alanthomsonsim.com/downloads/the-east-coast-mainline-merge/ Seems to be £138.91 by my calculations. No thanks!
I could possibly be encouraged to pay £138.91 for a well done fully functional ECML on TSW as the many different services could keep me entertained for years. However, I can't imagine it would be a massive seller.
Worth every penny in my opinion. Put it this way if DTG released the ECML in stages you would not be far off that anyway.
Not sure I agree with this or disagree with it, I play uk routes and have most if not all of them barring the steam routes, its not just about the length, Fife circle is quite a long route that was flawed when it came out but it was still engaging, I've got a few routes that I play a few times and then come back to occasionally, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that ECML is probably the longest UK route but its sparse and lacking stations for me, plus my preferred loco type is diesel, which is also a factor for me, also being from Birmingham i will throw this one in there, the BCC route is a good length of route to kick back with, 1hr10 or so I think but plenty of stopping, a good loco in the 323 that could only be improved on in my opinion by adding a class 172. Also, if you have a stupidly long route people will lose interest, I'd love to play the entirety of the WCML but it's probably not practical from a playability or performance point of view.
I think BCC is just right as you say a good mix of long and short runs hits the spot perfectly. Just need more services and AI at Birmingham expecially.
Only about 40 pounds more than the Class 745 if you get the subscription (to get GEMMA, which needs the DTG route anyway) before buying it. And much more play value out of it. If the entire ECML showed up in TSW, I would argue that the game would not be able to handle it in its current configuration because of all the timetable services all over the route in the different areas and paths. And that assumes the route even loads.
Manpower and money are the reasons I see. Yes you could make short routes to help fund the longer one. But there could be a manpower shortage that eould cause those shorter routes to take longer to make by doing that. And if the results of the survey show people prefer no more than 1 to 1/2 hours why waste the time and money for something only 1/3rd of people will buy. Same reason for dropping US freight and Steam. Unfortunately it seems all the moaning and complaints about steam and US freight quality have caused DTG to say well if they don't like how we are doing it then we won't make it because it doesn't sell. Instead of prompting changes.
GEMMA and the Flirt with the sub works out more expensive than the £138.91 just done the maths and surprised at the cost: ATS Sub £32,99 ATS Flirt £29,99 with sub GEMMA route - Part of the sub £0.00 ATS OHLE Pack Requirement: £4,99 with sub how the requirements from steam for the GEMMA to work: Great Eastern Mainline: London-Ipswich Route £14,99 Portsmouth Direct Line: London Waterloo-Portsmouth Route £17.99 Fife Circle Line: Edinburgh-Dunfermline Route £17,99 Southwestern Mainline: Southampton-Bournemouth Route £17.99 Woodhead Electric Railway in Blue Route £17,99 East Coast Mainline: London-Peterborough Route £14,99 Total cost to run the flirt on Gemma: £151.52 at todays prices.
Taking your comment and highlighting the bit in bold you hit the nail on the head. And you can gurantee you that 1/3 would complain at the cost of the route due to costs involved so prob wouldnt buy it anyway.
DTG or Rivet? So if the typical fan of the RhB was asked, which would you prefer the Bernina Line finishing in the middle of a windswept mountain plateau or running to the logical terminus at St Moritz, guess people were rolling up to select the first option, then? Even if the choice was half the line or not it all, I would come down on the side of if it cannot be done properly then maybe don’t do at all.
Easy to not consider the Steam requirements for longtime players who don't own it. Even for them, it's still almost 100 pounds, and if you do purchases in the wrong order (no £8 discount on the 745), it's over a hundred. Of course, if you need the requirements and don't own the wires, it costs way more. [Deleted; Piracy - DTGHarry] A route with that many requirements should just be free outright. If you want to charge for it, you better be able to bundle assets with it or you're doing it wrong. By this point, the wires should just be bundled with every route and give him a 1 pound kickback per sale. Save the customers money. Would be better than getting every freeware route dev to use them as a sales pitch. (See, I mean it when I say I could run Alan's business five times better.)
