This is where we need a really good scenario editor or a decent tutorial on how to use the public editor. I would love to sit down and create some scenarios on other routes, but I can only find very basic documentation on scenario creation in the public editor and while I got some basic stuff to work, I didn't get much further than I could have with Creators Club and that is far too basic. Absolutely going to get this. For me totally worth the money if it's as good as it looks. Considering taking my laptop on holiday to play while I'm away. Just a shame about the routes it layers onto. I'll play it on Hamburg Lübeck. It'll take more than a 218 to get me to enjoy Maintalbahn.
I don't think it's expensive, considering the love TSG puts into its creations. I will always support a job well done and I will buy it on day 1, just like the br 101 expert, whatever price it has because I'm sure it will be a fair price and according to the effort made by the developer. Look at it this way, is it preferable to spend 17.99 on a quality product like this, built with care and love, or spend 13.99 on the unworthy rubbish br 187, an atrocity that still to this day surprises me that DTG gave the green light to release? By the way, and going a bit off topic, I have to say that it is a pleasure and a privilege to read Maik on the forum again, and I hope he continues to participate whenever he deems necessary, as his opinions and reflections are very valuable and enrich the forum a lot. In addition, he often offers a different point of view to the official sweetened discourse of DTG, which is very welcome.
Yes, that's why it's a "sale" for me... but it's similar to others that are just as limited so it's not "unreasaonable cost" compared to them... which I also won't buy at full value. The key is that it all depends on who you are asking. As a loco DLC it's reasonable...and some people will buy it at that price point. For others, it's a "sale"... but it'll still sell for both. Therefore, there's no reason to lower the price. If you lower the price point you don't sell more (since many people are STILL getting it later on sale...at the "sale" point) and you are losing the extra revenue from have a "full price" that's higher that SOME people will pay. So it's very reasonable by TSW standards. Because TSW is bigger than just you or me who don't value it as highly.
Is DTG "putting it on" a particular route? Or is the 3rd party developer doing that? I've never heard that DTG make that call. It may be true, but I've never heard that before so maybe someone has more information on that? It seems to me that the 3rd party company decides where they want the loco and design it accordingly. Is that not correct?
You are obviously not getting it (again). No one is criticising TSG, but DTG for their lack of cooperation and assistance in getting this loco into a route where it will really shine. TSG as noted in a previous thread does a helluva lot for DTG when it comes to sorting the German stuff out. That should have been repaid by a full makeover of the primary Hamburg to Lubeck route (extension to Puttgarden pushing too far) and something other than shonky Maintalbahn as the secondary route. DTG have gone all to town buffing up Cathcart for the frankly, compared to the 218, boring one handle 380 but not the classic German diesel.
Hmmm... not sure, what this buzz is all about...ok, it costs a Euro more then other DLC but it comes with an at least more or less completely reworked cab car. Overpriced? I mean, compared to model railways, it's quite a bargain... And well, the route? Well, I think, it's better, to have it running on a complete route instead just being a couple of kilometers on the in-game route and then branching of on a non-electrified branch, which isn't modelled in TSW, even though, I wouldn't be disappointed,if it would layer into these routes...
Not sure what you mean by a "really large diesel?" The engine on the 218 is too small? I agree there aren't enough German diesel routes. But, I've kinda realized that DTG doesn't think that sells. Gotta make do myself with Niddertalbahn, Maintalbahn, and whatever DLCs allow driving on the other routes as layers. (as an aside, is the 204 still a thing? I ran across an old thread on it saying that it's usable on several maps to replace the 185? That would definitely change my lack of play on several of the German maps if there were more diesel freight services to run!)
Honestly, i don't know the answer to that question but my larger points are: 1. that it doesn't really matter in the end for the customer- they only see the final product. 2. DTG are the de facto publisher (i've never heard a word spoken about TSW from anyone at Focus, so i assume they're very hands-off at the level we're talking about here) so they have ultimate responsibility for the end result.
Yes, I have seen a 204 on DRA, pulling a 1200t 700m container train, what a strange sight not very realistic but it was there…
It's valid that DTG is the "publisher" of end content, but I think that criticism needs to be accurate for it to be effective. For example on a thread I was reading earlier Rivet made the 204 and DTG made the bridge on a route that the 204 didn't get under...AND there were issues with the bogies on the 204. Well Rivet designed the loco and Rivet chose to put the 204 on that route. DTG was blamed for "allowing them to make crappy content" and "not moving the bridge." The first is somewhat a valid criticism (if your grocery store gets rotten fruit you don't put it on display), but not entirely since they ARE very liberal in letting third parties make what they want. However, "fixing their bridge" that was caused by a choice Rivet made seems unfair. It's really a juggling act. HOW bad is the content, compared to how GOOD is it? Are one or two bugs or something "sloppy" (by someone's opinion on the internet) going to torpedo a whole project? *shrugs* People are correct that the 218 doesn't have the best layering, BUT it was eye opening seeing that 204 thread because it sounds a LOT similar in comments, and they came back and added a LOT of new layers and fixed lots of bugs so.... the content in the 218 could change a LOT from feedback. The MML route sure did. Right NOW I don't plan on picking it up, but if they decided to expand it to other routes and some freight duties, I would. I'm not writing it off completely. Things change. It hasn't been released yet so I'll wait and see. Importantly though, I'd direct feedback to the people that can MOST fix things...which is TSG. If the loco or layers are changed, it'll be THEM doing the work.
I'll don't understand the problem with the timetable layers. Maintalbahn and Hamburg - Lübeck aren't my favourite routes either, but I can't think of any other routes in TSW where the 218 would make sense (unless it was backdated quite significantly). If you don't like the routes it currently lives on, just wait until a route you like with a 218 layer comes out. It's not like loco DLC are tied to a route any more. It's a chicken/egg problem. The 218 is the German diesel locomotive. We haven't had it in TSW so far, so no one has made any routes that would really require it, so the gameplay included with it at launch isn't super exciting. It's not like making a new electric freight loco that can just substitute for all the other electric freight locos we already have; it's a whole new category of train. Now that we do have it through, it will 100% see a lot more use in the future. This loco will not share the G6's fate. The G6 is a fairly niche shunter that's almost exclusively used by private operators that DTG has no license for, while the 218 has been in extensive use across the entire DB network for the last 50 years.
Sorry, I mean we need more diesel routes in tsw. And yea the engin of the 218 is small but perfect for regio services
Doesn't the 218 have similar horsepower to a Class 47? 2,500 to 2,750 hp range? That seems pretty decent for the time period it was built in. Granted it's about a third of what the most modern ones on the German lines could do but that was pretty standard for the 1960s. Now if you were saying the G6 or the BR 204...then yes that would be low powered =-) Even the Class 66 isn't that much more power. Admittedly, the consists are bigger in Germany and North America, but the 204 (I'm told, don't have it) can pull mainline freight on RSN (albeit SLOWLY) Can always use more diesel though in Germany. The amount of content is tiny by compared to electric. Then again, in the settings for the routes, I'm guessing that's how the reality is. Most lines ARE electrified. Still, I'd use the 218 if it pulled other things than passenger wagons.
I was always partial to the 216 in the original Zusi (2). Presumably this was a predecessor to the 218 design. A 212 would be another good one, more than a shunter but retaining the centre cab.
Yup. First member of the V160 family, with a weaker diesel engine than the 218 and a steam boiler for train heating. There were also the 210 (with a gas turbine "booster"), 215 (also steam heating, but the idea was you could rebuild them into 218s later - didn't happen though), and 217 (electric train heating, but with an auxiliary diesel engine powering the generator).
Now here’s a thought Not to derail the thread, but I’ve always been fond of the V100. Given the bad deal the 204 was given, I’d love to see a properly done 212.
I don't know- i'm not a expert on German railways by any means. My biggest problem isn't H-L in and of itself, it's that the route hasn't been updated to the current standard. Again, i compare to Cathcart and the Class 390 DLC- Cathcart wasn't my favorite route either, but they're upgrading the biggest issue IMO (lighting) as well as general upgrades to the route to bring it up to current standards overall, so i feel like it's setting expectations a bit for other releases. I don't see why we shouldn't expect the same for the 218 and H-L. Again, someone will respond, "but it's a third party..." and the circle will begin again lol. I guess what it really boils down to is I have issues with the overall project/franchise management of TSW- maybe it's not fair to criticize this particular DLC for those shortcomings
With the 218 being stuck on my two least played German routes...I guess they'll get more play time. Day One buy for me. I guess I better go saddle-up and get some route learning in. Cheers.
Interesting to see this loco finally arrive. I’ve been wanting some more mainline diesel action ever since the 612. I think the price for a TSG product is fine, I’m pretty confident in their products & I don’t mind paying the premium for the quality to be consistent, much prefer it to paying almost as much as a DTG release where the quality is on a very slippery sliding scale. That said, I don’t think I’ll pick this up on release, HBL is ok, but it’s a very bland run. Maintalbahn is what it is, no chance of that being played. Free roam would probably be my primary use for this & honestly I feel it gets used as a cop out far too often. I’ve read MG’s replies & I can’t disagree with him, but at the same time I feel like I do also need something to do with the content I buy, at least more than taking the loco only one way down an old route. I think a bigger factor that comes into play (at least for me) is that I feel TSW is stumbling, the content lately is lacking, new releases are meh, DTG is being it’s usual self & I’ve lost any motivation to pick the game up. Hard to justify spending larger amounts on what is looking like a one off experience for an old route with no upgrades. Hopefully this loco will get more opportunities in the future & then I’ll happily pick it up at full price. It’s a shame really, this loco had a lot of buzz about it, but I suspect it’ll now be overshadowed by something as silly as HBL being TOD3.
Yes and no. There could be more content, but that doesn't have to come from DTG or be all released at once. The cargo packs are a good example. They really flesh out "meh" routes for me, adding a lot more variety. I'd personally like to see more of that than just a focus on "new new new." There's a LOT out there that they could improve the quality of. I'm not disappointed with Fife. It's about what I expected from Rivet (better actually) and the 158 and Leven are coming with other updates so...not bad. The remasters are looking good. The cargo packs were good. Maintalbahn, Blackpool, both good. The ECM, Antelope, Cajon, or Voralberg were...meh...but they do exist and some people like them more than I do. I guess it's a matter of expectations. If I can play them and enjoy it, then it's enough. I don't need perfection. The regular updates are encouraging. Can't please everyone all the time.
I already know that I will enjoy BR218 to 200%. The route is what it is, but still my nearmost route that I intend to visit this or next year. Finally we can get some fun while driving towards Hamburg as well, this N-cabcar is far more enjoyable than Dostos cabcar. And I'm sure there will be layers coming in future route releases. We don't have many TSW releases this time of year so it doesn't matter that it's a bit more expensive loco DLC. Today when I was shopping they didn't have bread (it's holiday in Sweden) so I bought Leksand knäckebröd instead and saved like 2 euros already there, so I can spend it on BR218
From what i've readed this loco is only for timetable and free roam? No new scenarios on routes whit this loco run?
I don't understand why people are complaining about the price imo. If you take a look at TSW 1 and TSW 2 Locos, and the Acela, for what you're getting it's a pretty good deal. Because again if DTG wanted too they could jack up the prices of locomotives back to what they were before
i always wonder about prices anyway higher price means less people will or can buy it (or will wait until a sale) lower price means more people will be able to buy it at release so what is really better in the end?
The "best" answer is probably what they are doing... figure your costs (including capitalization and future investment) and then sell it as low as you can to get as many eyes on the product as possible. If you set it any lower, you lose money. If you set it too much higher, the same people will still buy the product, they'll just wait for a sale. That's if you want to stay in business long term that is.... Given the relatively low cost, I would wager that's what they're doing. Some people are always going to complain about ANY cost point because there are lots of people who either don't know how costs work or just "want it" for nothing. However, if you compare it to similar products out there, it's right in the ball park. I won't speak for them, but can only go by where competitors in the field are doing and from personal experience from business management for over 20 years now. It's just plain business sense.
Been seeing quite some positive feedback regarding the 218, looks like one to put on my wish list for if the Xbox Z-Fight fix comes though. I’ve been keeping track of the dlcs I fall behind on in the meantime so I can see where to go first for a catch up in such an event.
No Z-Fighting issues on this one, neither loco nor cab car. And on HBL the distant mountain scenery isn't a thing either, so... Brilliant work, lots of childhood memories coming up, thank you for this one.
